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last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 19:11
Post #1 of 70 (750 views)
Saddleback Church Civic Forum
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I very much enjoyed the format of this debate. Question then answer instead of "let me go back and make a comment about that comment two comments back." Same questions for each candidate.
McCain seemed very decisive and just oozed strength. Obama was more guarded but seemed to answer many questions in a more personal way.
I hope the format catches on.
http://totalbuzz.freedomblogging.com/...andidates-oc-visits/
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Conservative in exile.
vitus979
Aug 16, 08 19:18
Post #2 of 70 (748 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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Where or how did you see it?
I wonder why it wasn't broadcast.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 19:28
Post #3 of 70 (746 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [vitus979]
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It was broadcast by Fox. Ended about an hour ago.
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Conservative in exile.
vitus979
Aug 16, 08 19:31
Post #4 of 70 (742 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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What the . . . ?
My Fox station apparently decided that a pre-season Seahawks game was more pressing than a presidential debate.
God bless America.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 19:33
Post #5 of 70 (741 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [vitus979]
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It was Fox News not the local affiliate.
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Conservative in exile.
vitus979
Aug 16, 08 19:41
Post #6 of 70 (736 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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Ahhh . . .
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
steveperx
Aug 16, 08 20:07
Post #7 of 70 (729 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [vitus979]
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Dude. Who cares about the presidential race when NFL
preseason
football is on? Why do you hate America? :)
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Steve Perkins
last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 20:43
Post #8 of 70 (722 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [steveperx]
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preseason is like Coke made with high fructose corn sweetner.
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Conservative in exile.
Tri N OC
Aug 16, 08 20:48
Post #9 of 70 (721 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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McCain seemed very decisive and just oozed strength. Obama was more guarded but seemed to answer many questions in a more personal way.
Straight Talk Express indeed. I can now see why the press will say that in a small setting McCain is significantly more impressive than when he tries to give a prepared speech. When Pastor Warren asked a direct question, McCain gave him a straight answer (even if I didn't always like it.)
On the other hand, I thought Obama was more tenative even giving due credit for the fact that he was not speaking to issues loved by his base. Orange County was long thought to be a bastion of conservatism. No longer. Obama received numerous and sustained applause on a number of topics.
Good job on the format because it forced both of them to be 100% on for their time rather than recuperating while the other talked and looking for zingers from the other guy.
I think the take away for Obama is stay away from debates as much as possible. Similarly look for McCain to press for more head to head opportunities.
dave_w
Aug 16, 08 21:05
Post #10 of 70 (712 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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Just watched Obama, and he was more likable than I have seen him before. Maybe I just like anyone more when they don't seem so "on the stump".
"It's all about self-esteem"
last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 21:14
Post #11 of 70 (708 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [dave_w]
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You know, I was thinking the same think while I watched it. I also liked McC's good sense of humor.
What I really like was Pastor Warren's admonishment for better public discourse regarding to politics in America. Sounds like another book in the making.
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Conservative in exile.
last tri in 83
Aug 16, 08 21:16
Post #12 of 70 (707 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [dave_w]
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McC looked like he just had two Redbulls and Obama acted like he just smoked a joint.
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Conservative in exile.
dave_w
Aug 16, 08 21:55
Post #13 of 70 (700 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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Yeah, about to the end of the McCain segment. He has given more direct answers, though it seems like Warren let him run into his stump on various subjects moreso than Obama. Of course Obama seemed to be uttering on without saying anything more often, so maybe it's good that the pastor reined him in.
I liked McCain's message about wanting to inspire people to work for something larger than themselves. He even talked about a missed opportunity after 9/11, not to keep the rest of the world on our side, as we so often hear, but within our country, to get more of us involved in selfless service of one type or another. On the whole, for me, he gained a point or two on the night.
"It's all about self-esteem"
sphere
Aug 17, 08 6:36
Post #14 of 70 (663 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [vitus979]
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Watch the complete forum:
Part 1 »
,
Part 2 »
,
Part 3 »
,
Part 4 »
"The nice part about being a pessimist is that you are constantly being either proven right or pleasantly surprised." - George F. Will
Casey
Aug 17, 08 8:06
Post #15 of 70 (648 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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I was able to watch it over here (friend here has U.S connections) and here is my perspective, FWIW.
I think both candidates did well. McCain for the most part gave good crisp answers and created no doubt where he stood, which most Americans will like. When the question came up about which Supreme Court justice he would not have appointed, he picked the more Liberal ones which is a strong point in trying to reach the Conservatives, considering the next President will likely have at least 1 appointment, and likely more. If I had to say a negative about McCain it was in response to what his greatest moral failure was and he responded with "the breakdown of my marriage" but really, his greatest moral failure was committing adultery on his wife. The audience knew that and his nuanced response was different than all his other clear responses that left no room for doubt.
Obama was very vague on some areas but he also was direct in others. I think Conservatives will be alarmed when he chose Clarence Thomas as the one justice he would not support, but his response was well reasoned even if you don't agree. I thought one point was very good even though it will not be popular with the Conservatives and that was on the issue of abortion. He said we currently have a President that opposes abortion yet the number of abortions in America in the last 8 years have not decreased.
Overall, I think Obama will never win over the evangelical base and his job was to limit the damage or at least, get the evangelicals not to vote so it was really all about McCain. He gave good answers but for the real Conservatives, he is simply not going to get the votes Bush received and that will only help Obama.
McCain was more direct and came across as someone who will continue Bush's foreign policy of reacting and maybe acting alone, a scary thought to many. Obama is much more thoughtful and likely will try to get more input from others, a strong point for those who support consensus.
I'm not sure anyone will change their mind on the candidates but McCain likely strengthened his evangelical support.
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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
(This post was
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dave_w
Aug 17, 08 8:36
Post #16 of 70 (634 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [Casey]
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I thought one point was very good even though it will not be popular with the Conservatives and that was on the issue of abortion. He said we currently have a President that opposes abortion yet the number of abortions in America in the last 8 years have not decreased.
Looks like Obama was wrong on his abortion comment. One of many sources:
http://www.factcheck.org/...a_bad_statistic.html
"It's all about self-esteem"
Casey
Aug 17, 08 8:44
Post #17 of 70 (629 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [dave_w]
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I think his general point is that a President's personal view does not really determine the number of abortions. Many people think that if we elect a President opposed to abortions they will become illegal which is clearly not the case.
There may be a lot of reasons for the number of abortions to decrease or increase but I'm not sure either can be attributed to the person in the Whitehouse, that was his point.
Personally, I'd love to see a candidate make them illegal but that just isn't going to happen.
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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
vitus979
Aug 17, 08 9:14
Post #18 of 70 (620 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [Casey]
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I think his general point is that a President's personal view does not really determine the number of abortions.
Do you buy that argument?
Many people think that if we elect a President opposed to abortions they will become illegal which is clearly not the case.
Are you serious?
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
dave_w
Aug 17, 08 10:03
Post #19 of 70 (606 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [Casey]
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I think his general point is that a President's personal view does not really determine the number of abortions. Many people think that if we elect a President opposed to abortions they will become illegal which is clearly not the case.
There may be a lot of reasons for the number of abortions to decrease or increase but I'm not sure either can be attributed to the person in the Whitehouse, that was his point.
Personally, I'd love to see a candidate make them illegal but that just isn't going to happen.
I don't disagree that there are larger societal reasons that abortions continue to decline. Obama could have talked stayed with facts, and talked about declines under Clinton as well as Bush. He did not, and that is my problem with it...he either demonstrated ignorance, or a willingness to lie, either way, it reflects poorly on him. What would be good, is for him to come out and correct himself, and point out data such as I mentioned above. That way he can make his point, and do so honestly.
"It's all about self-esteem"
majorminor
Aug 17, 08 10:14
Post #20 of 70 (599 views)
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SDG
Aug 17, 08 11:54
Post #21 of 70 (573 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [majorminor]
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I thought it was interseting that Obama clearly stated he is a born again Christian and has relied on Christ as his savior to forgive his sins. I have never heard that so direct from Obama. I wonder how the agnostics and atheist supporters of Obama feel about those statements. Do they feel he is delusion in asking Christ for forgiveness. If so, why whould they still vote for someone they feel is delusion?
Tri N OC
Aug 17, 08 16:49
Post #22 of 70 (535 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [SDG]
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If so, why whould they still vote for someone they feel is delusion?
My guess is that they believe it is a tactic designed to break the religious vote and get into office.
SDG
Aug 17, 08 17:01
Post #23 of 70 (531 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [Tri N OC]
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I would anticipate you are right and if pressed, the far left agnostic Obama supporter would say he only makes those claims as a way to say what the religious right wants to hear. Although that is a tacit acknowledgement that Obama will make a direct lie to get in the Whitehouse.
el fuser
Aug 18, 08 3:05
Post #24 of 70 (492 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [majorminor]
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How about the segment where Obama quoted Bible scripture from Matthew - something to the effect of judging a society by how they treat the "least".
Not sure if that means fewest/least, or poorest/least.
But, the fact that Obama was quoting the Bible (typically "right-winger/evangelical") stuff has to make a few in Dem. party squirmy, to say the least.
That is, those liberals who mistake/misunderstand freedom OF religion for freedom FROM religion.
I'm not sure if I support Obama yet, but if you find a liberal that doesn't respect Jesus, at least as a social philosopher if not the Son of God, then they're probably ignorant on the life of Jesus and
What Jesus Meant
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Slowman
Aug 18, 08 7:41
Post #25 of 70 (448 views)
Re: Saddleback Church Civic Forum [last tri in 83]
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"
McCain seemed very decisive and just oozed strength."
now we know why.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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