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Bolt greater than Phelps
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Marcus
Aug 20, 08 12:16
Post #1 of 53 (1349 views)
Bolt greater than Phelps
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Yeah, there was a thread whether Phelps is the greatest olympian ever. Well, I´m more impressed with Usain Bolt´s performance so far. Yep, he could take eight medals if they ran 120 meters, 150 meters, 180 meters and 100 meters backwards as well (plus relays) :)
"Quantity can never compensate for quality"
n90saft1st
Aug 20, 08 12:27
Post #2 of 53 (1321 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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Glad you're impressed with Bolt. His performances were indeed impressive.
If they expanded Badminton somehow into 6 individual and 3 team events, I'm sure somebody could then claim 9 gold medals in a single Olympics, too. Would that then make them the greatest Olympian ever?
They're BOTH phenomenal athletes. Just leave it at that.
FWIW, I'm not dating either of them. Ewww.
Later!
Brian
steveperx
Aug 20, 08 12:29
Post #3 of 53 (1307 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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Excellent troll.
Nothing gets a good flame war going like politics, religion or nationalism.
I'll go pop some corn and sit back for the show.
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Steve Perkins
moneydog59
Aug 20, 08 12:30
Post #4 of 53 (1305 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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He certainly would win the "HUMBLE" gold medal.
"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
CTL
Aug 20, 08 13:11
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Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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Could he win the 110 hurdles? Because winning the 100 and the 110 hurdles would be very similar to winning the 200 free, the 200 IM and the 200 fly.
donm
Aug 20, 08 13:14
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Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [CTL]
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Except that the pool of talent in athletics is greater than in swimming, so it's not really comparable.
Marcus
Aug 20, 08 13:22
Post #7 of 53 (1175 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [CTL]
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I love this comparison, as a finn (Finland totally dominates javelin), what if the olympics featured competition in not only javelin, but two handed javelin (they actually had that back in the twenties), off-hand javelin, javelin relay, javelin accuracy contest, extra heavy javelin throw..? Would Pitkämäki or Thorkildsen make the greatest olympian of all time? Easily.
"Quantity can never compensate for quality"
dre
Aug 20, 08 13:25
Post #8 of 53 (1164 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [donm]
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Except that the pool of talent in athletics is greater than in swimming, so it's not really comparable.
Seriously? I'm not saying swimming has more athletes per se, but give me some numbers to prove this. You honestly think there are more up and coming shot putters, discuss, pole vaulters and steeplechasers than there are 200IMers, 100 breaststrokers, etc.? I've been proven wrong before.
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Could he win the 110 hurdles? Because winning the 100 and the 110 hurdles would be very similar to winning the 200 free, the 200 IM and the 200 fly.
Let's not forget about the 5,000m and the steeplechase, etc.
Can't people just accept that it is never going to be possible to compare apples to oranges when it comes to sport? I love and appreciate all the diversity and think all great athletes should be accepted for what they have done.
Although completely different I would say Shawn Johnson (female gymnast) and Shawn White (male X-games snow/skateboarder) are both immense talents. Is one better than the other? Give it a rest and just say "man, that is talent...that was cool to see."
-Dre
andre at workoutlog dot com
http://www.workoutlog.com
Marcus
Aug 20, 08 13:36
Post #9 of 53 (1133 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [dre]
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Can't people just accept that it is never going to be possible to compare apples to oranges when it comes to sport?
:) Yeah, this was kind of my response to the question whether Phelps is the greatest olympian. Best olympian swimmer so far, but I think Bolt is the most impressive sprinter in recent history (yes, I can still remember MJ and even BJ back in ´88)
"Quantity can never compensate for quality"
TriStrut
Aug 20, 08 13:38
Post #10 of 53 (1124 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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I love this comparison, as a finn (Finland totally dominates javelin), what if the olympics featured competition in not only javelin, but two handed javelin (they actually had that back in the twenties), off-hand javelin, javelin relay, javelin accuracy contest, extra heavy javelin throw..? Would Pitkämäki or Thorkildsen make the greatest olympian of all time? Easily.
I agree with the posters saying it's impossible to compare runners to swimmers and apples to oranges. It's a bogus question. I think comparing Phelps to Spitz is ridiculous because swimmng has changed so much since Spitz's era.
But I do have one thing to say about this: if the swimming events were as similar to each other as you're implying, wouldn't somebody else have won 8 gold medals by now? There's a reason why at the Olympics most of the top swimmers only make the finals in one or two individual events.
(edited to fix grammar)
_________________________________
Go that way really fast. If something gets in your way, turn.
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docfuel
Aug 20, 08 13:42
Post #11 of 53 (1111 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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He, Bolt, may be the greatest srpinter (and possibly a great 400m man) that any of us ever see. Probably the best EVER, if this is indication.. I'm certainly awestruck by his performances. I think he'll set record that won't fall for decades. I'd love to see him try the 400. Should Jamaica give him a go in the 4 x400???????```
But, you can't compare the two.
Phelps, excels in 4 different disciplines, albeit all in water. He could probably have qualified in backstroke individuals, if he felt like it. That's what's so amazing to me about him. Spitz was fantastic, but only swam butter and free.
Give 'em both their due.
_________________
Dick
Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.
seifarth
Aug 20, 08 13:45
Post #12 of 53 (1096 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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Yeah, there was a thread whether Phelps is the greatest olympian ever. Well, I´m more impressed with Usain Bolt´s performance so far. Yep, he could take eight medals if they ran 120 meters, 150 meters, 180 meters and 100 meters backwards as well (plus relays) :)
If bolt won his 100/200 , the 4x100 relay and then added the 110m hurdles, 400m and 400m hurdles plus the 4x400 , winning all and setting world records in all except one, then maybe I'd care.
I have to give bolt credit for doing what hes done, but you can't sit there and say racing 100m/400m and trying to double gold is that much different than 100m fly/200 free/400 IM.
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donm
Aug 20, 08 13:46
Post #13 of 53 (1087 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [dre]
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Seriously? I'm not saying swimming has more athletes per se, but give me some numbers to prove this. You honestly think there are more up and coming shot putters, discuss, pole vaulters and steeplechasers than there are 200IMers, 100 breaststrokers, etc.? I've been proven wrong before.
Well, we're getting into comparing apples and oranges, but what I'm really saying is that there are far more people worldwide competing in running events than in swimming. I don't have specific numbers, but I'm sure there are estimates produced by the IAAF and FINA if you want to google them.
Think about it this way: a large proportion of the world probably can't swim at all, let alone have access to a pool (or suitable clean, safe body of water) and the coaching necessary to develop competitive technique. On the other hand, nearly everyone can run and competes in races, however informal, with their friends. It's easy to identify sprinting talent; identifying swimming talent requires a lot of luck, a significant part of which involves being born in the right country with rich enough parents.
n90saft1st
Aug 20, 08 14:26
Post #14 of 53 (1032 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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...what if the olympics featured competition in not only javelin, but two handed javelin (they actually had that back in the twenties), off-hand javelin, javelin relay, javelin accuracy contest, extra heavy javelin throw..?
How about the 200 IMJ (Individual Medley-Javelin) swim? At each 50 you get to jump out of the water and try to spear somebody.
Winner gets to date Leryn Franco!
Later!
Brian
dre
Aug 20, 08 14:41
Post #15 of 53 (1011 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [donm]
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I don't have specific numbers, but I'm sure there are estimates produced by the IAAF and FINA if you want to google them.
So you have no numbers and you want me to google them for you?
If there are so many recreational runners in the world, using your logic, NASCAR and F1 would have one hell of a talent pool of drivers to choose from. Just pluck drivers off the Autobahn in Germany to find the next Andretti.
Better yet, the most popular mode of transportation in China is via bicycle so shouldn't the best Tour de France riders be Chinese? Oh, they don't come from China do they...probably cause they are too poor to ride Cervelo's right?
-Dre
andre at workoutlog dot com
http://www.workoutlog.com
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devashish_paul
Aug 20, 08 14:46
Post #16 of 53 (1000 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [jseifarth]
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Have you actually run the 100m and 400m in elite competition? These events feature two completely different types of athletes with different body types. In fairness, Bolt's body type is actually closer to those that excel at 400 than 100m. I actually see Bolt as a better staightaway runner than turn runner, simply because he is fighting his own massive momentum in the turns.
In my view, Bolt's performances in the Olympics have been more impressive than Phelps, because he blows away the competition....Phelps while strong, is just a few notches above the rest. Bolts is like an alien that descended from another world.
And yes, if track had the 50, 100, 150, 200, 4x100, 4x200, 8x50 etc etc etc
And those implying that he should win the hurdles with that speed are simply clueless. There is realistically one body type with a specific inseam range that is ideal for the hurdles...everyone else is either too tall or too short and can't clear the hurdles efficienty, take too long strides in between or have to chop their stride down in between...how the hell Mark McKoy ever one a Gold Medal in Barcelona is beyond my comprehension...
Dev
Marco in BC
Aug 20, 08 14:51
Post #17 of 53 (994 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [devashish_paul]
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And those implying that he should win the hurdles with that speed are simply clueless. There is realistically one body type with a specific inseam range that is ideal for the hurdles...everyone else is either too tall or too short and can't clear the hurdles efficienty, take too long strides in between or have to chop their stride down in between...
I think that's what everybody said about 100m runners before Bolt showed up...
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A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.
donm
Aug 20, 08 15:05
Post #18 of 53 (969 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [dre]
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If you don't already know that running is a bigger sport worldwide than swimming, well, I don't think we can have a productive discussion.
The whole country of Japan virtually comes to a standstill for 2 hours to watch the marathon.
In Jamaica 25,000 people pack a stadium each year to watch the high school national track championships. Keep in mind this is a nation of only 2.8 million people.
The marquee event of the Olympics as a whole is, and has been for many years, the men's 100m final.
The 4-minute mile, an iconic milestone that, in terms of widespread awareness among laypeople, has no equal in swimming.
Brand031
Aug 20, 08 15:10
Post #19 of 53 (959 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [devashish_paul]
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In my view, Bolt's performances in the Olympics have been more impressive than Phelps, because he blows away the competition....
Phelps while strong, is just a few notches above the rest.
Bolts is like an alien that descended from another world.
I find that statement interesting. Phelps raced 17 or 18 times and still defeated the worlds best who train specifically for their event. If you consider winning an olympic final in the 200m free and fly by more then a body length and also WRs "
just a few notches"
...then wow...maybe he should train specifically for the 200 free and win by 5 seconds then maybe you will consider his efforts
"many notches"
usctriguy
Aug 20, 08 15:21
Post #20 of 53 (940 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Marcus]
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Phelps...why?
Because he will be laughing his ass off all the way to the bank, while Bolt well...maybe Phelps can have him trim his shrubs or let him wash his new Aston Martin that he is eyeing...
the lesson here is not "nationilsm" just pure marketing power...Phelps is the "Greater" icon at the moment and I believe has far more earnings potential than Bolt will have.
Phelps can be marketed globally while Bolt has a smaller window of opportunity to cash in on his speed.
Phelps has already gone on record that he wants to change the sport of swimming. It will be interesting to see if he can grow any legs under it.
CaptainCanada
Aug 20, 08 15:33
Post #21 of 53 (918 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [usctriguy]
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Phelps...why?
Because he will be laughing his ass off all the way to the bank, while Bolt well...maybe Phelps can have him trim his shrubs or let him wash his new Aston Martin that he is eyeing...
the lesson here is not "nationilsm" just pure marketing power...Phelps is the "Greater" icon at the moment and I believe has far more earnings potential than Bolt will have.
Phelps can be marketed globally while Bolt has a smaller window of opportunity to cash in on his speed.
Phelps has already gone on record that he wants to change the sport of swimming. It will be interesting to see if he can grow any legs under it.
Come on. Bolt is now a national hero in Jamaica. Sprinting is their national sport. Will he make as much as Phelps? Of course not. Will he be wealthy? Of course.
I wouldn't be surprised if they name a national holiday after him.
===============
2009 Race Schedule:
Wine Country Oly, IM Lanzarote, Wasa Lake Oly, Rhode Island 70.3, Ultraman Canada Relay, Apple Oly, IMC, Grand Columbian Half
donm
Aug 20, 08 15:39
Post #22 of 53 (905 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [usctriguy]
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Phelps...why?
Because he will be laughing his ass off all the way to the bank, while Bolt well...maybe Phelps can have him trim his shrubs or let him wash his new Aston Martin that he is eyeing...
the lesson here is not "nationilsm" just pure marketing power...Phelps is the "Greater" icon at the moment and I believe has far more earnings potential than Bolt will have.
Phelps can be marketed globally while Bolt has a smaller window of opportunity to cash in on his speed.
Phelps has already gone on record that he wants to change the sport of swimming. It will be interesting to see if he can grow any legs under it.
Phelps is a likeable guy but Bolt has far more charisma. Bolt will be more marketable in Europe and apparently his popularity in China has exploded.
donm
Aug 20, 08 15:44
Post #23 of 53 (899 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [usctriguy]
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Also, just so you know, most of the world doesn't judge the greatness of an athlete's accomplishments by how much money they make from endorsements.
JasoninHalifax
Aug 20, 08 16:10
Post #24 of 53 (877 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [devashish_paul]
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In my view, Bolt's performances in the Olympics have been more impressive than Phelps, because he blows away the competition
Dev, I love you man, but were you actually watching the IM events? 200IM
1:54.23
margin was 2.29 secs. 400IM
4:03.84 .
For some historical perspective, Alex Baumann swam a 2:01 and 4:17 in the '84 Olympics, both WRs. That ain't the fast suits responsible for that. thats about a 3.5% improvement. by comparison, Bolt was about 3% faster than Carl Lewis' winning times in the 100 and 200 from the same olympics, except none of Baumann, Bolt, or Lewis had to race 17 times on their way to doing it.
Carl Lewis also won his 100 and 200 very easily back in '84.
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Fishtwitch clique (ex-butterflyer)
"Cats like Ham" - Tom D.
JasoninHalifax
Aug 20, 08 16:16
Post #25 of 53 (867 views)
Re: Bolt greater than Phelps [Brand031]
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the fly events were close, Lazlo Cheh is a real stud.... but Phelps dominated the 200 free, 200Im and 400IM, each of those he won by about 2 seconds... That isn't "just a few notches", that is an utter ass-whoopin'
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Fishtwitch clique (ex-butterflyer)
"Cats like Ham" - Tom D.
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