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Boonen - WTF?
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goallout
Jul 3, 09 16:08
Post #26 of 46 (529 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [Dave Luscan]
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Are you kidding me? They were thinking of making an attempt to punish him for taking a shower earlier this year. The French apparently don't like to take showers. Ok so it was with a drug tester at the door. I'm not even like an obsessive Lance fan either but let's face it they have tried pretty hard to get him on something, anything. Cocaine would at least be enough to suspend him from the Tour.
mojozenmaster
Jul 3, 09 16:22
Post #27 of 46 (524 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [kgn_sm]
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sorry bout that.
But as jackmott says "the whole world is on drugs"
Boonen-Schmoonen, Valverde-Schmalverde.........whatever, let 'em race!!
**all these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted. For assuredly, they had never met before**
FJB
Jul 3, 09 16:28
Post #28 of 46 (520 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [bespoke]
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Cycling is a laughing stock, it has a massive drug problem and this is just a PR disaster
X2. When people in my office who don't know the first thing about sport comment that "isn't the Tour de France that race where everyone takes drugs", you know the sport has become a joke.
It's like being a Bulgarian weightlifter at the Olympics. NO ONE believes you are clean.
FJB
Jul 3, 09 16:29
Post #29 of 46 (519 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [fulla]
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it would be quite easy for someone to slip some coke into his drink
LOL. The denial just won't stop.
fulla
Jul 3, 09 20:25
Post #30 of 46 (482 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [FJB]
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well it would wouldn't it? i'm not saying that's what happened here. but it wouldn't exactly be hard to do if you wanted.
spirogeek
Jul 3, 09 20:45
Post #31 of 46 (473 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [fulla]
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Boonen = Druggie = Cheat = Ban. Pretty simple.
bad929
Jul 3, 09 21:27
Post #32 of 46 (455 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [spirogeek]
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Boonen= Druggie....Yes
Boonen= Cheater.....Not according to UCI's drug policy.
ndenezzo
Jul 3, 09 21:40
Post #33 of 46 (450 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [bad929]
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Boonen= Druggie....Yes
Boonen= Cheater.....Not according to UCI's drug policy.
No offense, but you guys really need to read the UCI's drug policy, since most are wrong.
The first line of their anti-doping policy:
Quote:
The use of any drug should be limited to medically justified indications.
Then, located under the section titled "SUBSTANCES AND METHODS PROHIBITED IN-COMPETITION" it states:
Quote:
S6. STIMULANTS All stimulants (including both their D- & L- optical isomers where relevant) are prohibited, except imidazole derivatives for topical use and those stimulants included in the 2009 Monitoring Program*.
Stimulants include: a: Non Specified Stimulants: Adrafinil; amfepramone; amiphenazole; amphetamine; amphetaminil; benzphetamine; benzylpiperazine; bromantan; clobenzorex;
cocaine
; cropropamide; crotetamide; dimethylamphetamine; etilamphetamine; famprofazone; fencamine; fenetylline; fenfluramine; fenproporex; furfenorex; mefenorex; mephentermine; mesocarb; methamphetamine(D-); methylenedioxyamphetamine; methylenedioxymethamphetamine; p-methylamphetamine; modafinil; norfenfluramine; phendimetrazine; phenmetrazine; phentermine; 4-phenylpiracetam (carphedon); prolintane. A stimulant not expressly listed in this section is a Specified Substance.
And if you still don't believe, check the page for yourself:
http://www.uci.ch/...d=34172&LangId=1
*Edited to correct my idiocy
(This post was
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by ndenezzo on Jul 4, 09 20:50)
bespoke
Jul 3, 09 22:51
Post #34 of 46 (425 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [ndenezzo]
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Listen as a viewer I am glad as much of the talent is there as possible (and I am a huge Boonen fan - Roubaix this year was epic)
But I actually think Boonen himself could do with a decent break and get help - he is the biggest star in Belgium and no wonder he needs to find a way to 'party'
When he was caught he asked for help - Lefevre's solution was to appeal the ban and get him back to appease sponsors.....
We all know the drug testers are way behind the cheaters, but now when you get caught you simply appeal and get let back in
WHat sort of message does this send about the sports attempts to clean itself up?
If I was a blue chip company thinking of investing in a Pro team - how could this mentality ever give me confidence that my brand would not be affected by future scandal
Maybe I am being hypocritical, but at this moment in time I really think the Tour stars need to be seen to be beyond reproach if any sort of trust is to be regained
bad929
Jul 4, 09 6:13
Post #35 of 46 (378 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [ndenezzo]
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So than why is he still competing? Why has the UCI not banned him?
This was from mid June article:
ASO also revealed that Boonen and Quick Step have the right to appeal to the arbitration panel of The French national sports and Olympic committee (CNOSF).
There was, however, some good news for Boonen as the sport's governing body the
International Cycling Union (UCI) announced they would be taking no disciplinary action against him for his positive test.
I'm not doubting your list or your post, but if it is so cut and dry than why did the UCI flounder at taking any action. They basically put it to the ASO to decide if he should ride the Tour, as they were not going to pursue any action. So basically that list doesnt really count or is bogues if Boonen clearly broke a UCI rule but yet didnt get punished. So like I said, according to the UCI he isnt a cheat.
So while he may be a cheat, apparently not a big enough cheat. Thats why I said, that Boonen isnt a cheat according to the UCI's drug policy enforcement. I mean if he was a cheat, and cocaine is such an bad drug, why would the UCI not take action?
What would the UCI do if Cancellara or Contador or Evans got caught doping but said, "I blackouted and someone must have shot me up wiht PED's". THey would laugh at them and they would be banned for the 2 year min sentence.
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by bad929 on Jul 4, 09 6:43)
leggett24
Jul 4, 09 6:19
Post #36 of 46 (373 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [ndenezzo]
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That's surprising to see. One of the articles that I read (Velonews?) said Coke was only considered a PED if used within 2 days of competition. I wonder where that came from? It's pretty bad if those enforcing the rules can't keep them straight.
FJB
Jul 4, 09 7:06
Post #37 of 46 (362 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [bad929]
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So than why is he still competing? Why has the UCI not banned him?
Because the Belgian federation is threatening a lawsuit.
bad929
Jul 4, 09 8:28
Post #38 of 46 (343 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [FJB]
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Well than that says more about the UCI. I mean, if htey made a ruling nad are afraid of a lawsuit, I'd say they arent really up to the task with their rules, which was my whole point. UCI's ruling on this situation has been very soft.
Spandexboy
Jul 4, 09 8:33
Post #39 of 46 (341 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [Macho Grande]
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To me it sounds like Boonen's lawyer is using typical legalise--or is that leagalease--to get his client off on a technicality, usually how most accused persons get off. With that said, so Boonen has a drug problem...doesn't necessarily mean he should be prevented from racing, but that is another discussion.
spirogeek
Jul 4, 09 9:11
Post #40 of 46 (322 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [bad929]
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The question isn't whether or not it's a PED but rather whether it is allowed or not. It isn't and he got caught. If gravy was against the rules and he got caught with gravy in his system he would still be guilty.
bad929
Jul 4, 09 14:53
Post #41 of 46 (282 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [spirogeek]
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But my point is. He is guilty of taking drugs, YES. Guilty of cheating: NO
Like I said, because it was cocaine and an "out of competition" test, cocaine is not the same as a doping violotion. So while he is guilty of a druggie, he isnt guilty of actually cheating, because the UCI can really only put it's jurisdiction on this type of drug violoation if it occured during competition.
So while Cocaine is on the banned lists, it doesnt matter if he is cuaght with it or not when its an out of competition test. The really only thing that can hold him back is his bike team.
Edit: If it was really illegal to be taking cocaine during out of competition testing, dont you think he would have been atleast "temporary" banned from racing, regardless if Quick Step is going to sue the UCI or not. UCI took no action, I think the only action was that he "damaged the reputation of cycling", or something of that magnitude.
(This post was
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by bad929 on Jul 4, 09 15:46)
triathlonshots
Jul 4, 09 15:22
Post #42 of 46 (256 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [Macho Grande]
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Isn't that two strikes already for cocaine use. Some people on here probably think it is just recreational use, and that it is in his own time ; well it maybe?
The best family of drugs that I heard will help a sprinter win is doesn't include cocaine.
Does cocaine help sprinting in cycling, i am not sure?
The laws in Belgium must be pretty relaxed. In NZ and Australia you will get a jail sentence for a first charge of cocaine use/possesion. Or maybe they have never found him in possesion of the drug and you can never travel again outside your country.
Harmful side-effects(of cocaine) include serious cardiovascular problems, such as arrhythmia, tachycardia, and hypertension. Cocaine abuse has been linked to the deaths of several athletes, including, in 2004, that of Marco Patani, the last cyclist to have won the Tour de France and the Giro d'Italia in the same year (1998).
Drug abuse will cut your life short and it is also sad/bad if Michael Jackson was being prescribed opioids without a very good reason by Doctors.
G.
www.TriathlonShots.com
Full event coverage of triathlon/ironman in photos.
(This post was
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by triathlonshots on Jul 4, 09 15:30)
ndenezzo
Jul 4, 09 17:43
Post #43 of 46 (194 views)
Post deleted by ndenezzo
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Alex Simmons
Jul 4, 09 20:37
Post #44 of 46 (136 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [ndenezzo]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Boonen= Druggie....Yes
Boonen= Cheater.....Not according to UCI's drug policy.
No offense, but you guys really need to read the UCI's drug policy, since most are wrong.
The first line of their anti-doping policy:
Quote:
The use of any drug should be limited to medically justified indications.
Then, located under the section titled "SUBSTANCES AND METHODS
PROHIBITED AT ALL TIMES
(IN- AND OUT-OF-COMPETITION)" it states:
Quote:
S6. STIMULANTS All stimulants (including both their D- & L- optical isomers where relevant) are prohibited, except imidazole derivatives for topical use and those stimulants included in the 2009 Monitoring Program*.
Stimulants include: a: Non Specified Stimulants: Adrafinil; amfepramone; amiphenazole; amphetamine; amphetaminil; benzphetamine; benzylpiperazine; bromantan; clobenzorex;
cocaine
; cropropamide; crotetamide; dimethylamphetamine; etilamphetamine; famprofazone; fencamine; fenetylline; fenfluramine; fenproporex; furfenorex; mefenorex; mephentermine; mesocarb; methamphetamine(D-); methylenedioxyamphetamine; methylenedioxymethamphetamine; p-methylamphetamine; modafinil; norfenfluramine; phendimetrazine; phenmetrazine; phentermine; 4-phenylpiracetam (carphedon); prolintane. A stimulant not expressly listed in this section is a Specified Substance.
So in what way is cocaine not illegal under the UCI's drug policy???
And if you still don't believe, check the page for yourself:
http://www.uci.ch/...d=34172&LangId=1
Well it helps to have the facts right before getting a bit carried away....
It is a WADA list by the way and not UCI's, and I don't know what you are looking at but Section S6, in which cocaine is clearly specified as a prohibited substance, refers to substances prohibited
IN-COMPETITION ONLY
.
In other words, the use of cocaine (while probably illegal in whatever country/state he was in at the time), is not a prohibited substance or method by WADA (and hence the UCI) when used or identified as being used out of competition. Boonen's test, which showed a positive for cocaine, was from an out of competition test. Therefore the UCI or any National Cycling Federation had no grounds to ban Boonen on the basis of failing a test for a prohibited substance, since he hadn't. Given it is probably illegal to use cocaine it would only be a matter for the police to consider whether charges should be laid.
Whether or not a governing body such as the UCI or Belgian Cycling want to take action for some other reason, such as bringing the sport into disrepute, is another matter.
Finally, the ASO runs the TdF, not the UCI. So the ASO can also make some decisions about the race they own and they clearly didnt want Boonen there. Whether or not their reasons are legitimate I make no comment on but it is likely to be something along the lines of protecting the image of the TdF.
This is similar to Phelps sucking on a bong, but out of competition. Dumb, quite probably illegal, but not a prohibited substance out of competition and therefore a ban
on that basis
has no standing. Any sanction would have to be for other reasons. Clearly those other reasons are somewhat more grey in their definition that failing a dope control and so grey = easy to threaten huge legal costs = let him ride and save a shedload of money.
The guy I feel for out of all this is Allan Davis.
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ndenezzo
Jul 4, 09 20:48
Post #45 of 46 (130 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [Alex Simmons]
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Wow, epic fail on my part, sorry. I have no idea how I missed that.
bad929
Jul 4, 09 20:59
Post #46 of 46 (124 views)
Re: Boonen - WTF? [ndenezzo]
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So I stand by my statement:
Boonen= Druggie....Yes
Boonen= Cheater.....Not according to UCI's drug policy.
:)
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