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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona

 

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ktm520

Nov 10, 09 12:28

Post #1 of 26 (714 views)
Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona Can't Post

I was going with Bontrager Xlites pros/latex tubes but am questioning decision based on flat risk versus time savings. Last year ran on Conti 4000’s.

2 questions:

1) Given some reports of "thorny" roads what is everybody planning on running at Arizona?
2) Regarding Crr that has been calculated on rollers, do the differentials between tires in magnitude and ranking tend to hold up over ground as environmental conditions i.e. surface, wind, temperature are variable? Is it possible that a higher Crr on a roller may actually be higher ranked (lower Crr) on the road as compound/profile is more amenable to "real world" conditions?

Tubular folks need not reply.

Cheers!



dvfmfidc

Nov 10, 09 12:35

Post #2 of 26 (705 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

I would go with TUFO Clincher Tubulars.


docfuel

Nov 10, 09 12:42

Post #3 of 26 (684 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I would use the Bonty aero TT lite (or whatever it's called.) with Latex tubes. Bring one (or more) of the sealer reflators, some patches, etc. DO NOT hit the rumble strips. They are chasms and will eat tires. They're several feet wide, about 10-12 inches across and 4-5 inches deep. If you are headed for one, do a bunny hop. I wonder if someone specified the size in cm and the contractor used inches.??????
_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.


IRONwolf

Nov 10, 09 12:42

Post #4 of 26 (681 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

I have had good luck with the conti grand prix triathlon tires.


As it turns out, what you have is less important than what you do with it...
-Bernd Heinrich, why we run


tkonecny

Nov 10, 09 12:51

Post #5 of 26 (669 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [docfuel] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
Personally, I would use the Bonty aero TT lite (or whatever it's called.) with Latex tubes. Bring one (or more) of the sealer reflators, some patches, etc. DO NOT hit the rumble strips. They are chasms and will eat tires. They're several feet wide, about 10-12 inches across and 4-5 inches deep. If you are headed for one, do a bunny hop. I wonder if someone specified the size in cm and the contractor used inches.??????
+1
Also, I don't find that, on a single ride, any one performance tire is more flat resistant than any other. I found the TT aerolites w/latex tubes feel mad fast on HED C2's. Only thing I'll race on from now on.
______________________________________________

Hope you can success.


DFWTri

Nov 10, 09 12:55

Post #6 of 26 (663 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

I got thorn in April 08 race, using clinchers and i believe Vittoria EVO CX. Wasted 30-min fixing several times (didnt find thorn culprit till back home) and ended up getting a wheel from support. Rubino Pro or Gatorskin would have much lower Crr but should hold up better.

Oh and make sure you bring your extra long valved tubes for deep rims ... i forgot and only brought reg length.
-----------------
St. Croix 70.3
Draper Lake Duathlon (Long Course Nats)
IM Canada


summitt

Nov 10, 09 12:57

Post #7 of 26 (655 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

By your ST name is that a SX? Sweet!


ktm520

Nov 10, 09 15:01

Post #8 of 26 (567 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [summitt] [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually an EXC, but still sweet. Wish I could ride it at Arizona!

Cheers!


ktm520

Nov 11, 09 7:10

Post #9 of 26 (444 views)
Question 2 comments? [In reply to] Can't Post

Any comments on this one??

2) Regarding Crr that has been calculated on rollers, do the differentials between tires in magnitude and ranking tend to hold up over ground as environmental conditions i.e. surface, wind, temperature are variable? Is it possible that a higher Crr on a roller may actually be higher ranked (lower Crr) on the road as compound/profile is more amenable to "real world" conditions?

Cheers!


jackmott

Nov 11, 09 7:14

Post #10 of 26 (440 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

the ranking of tires on rollers is consistent with reality provided you do not pump them up too high

In Reply To:
Any comments on this one??

2) Regarding Crr that has been calculated on rollers, do the differentials between tires in magnitude and ranking tend to hold up over ground as environmental conditions i.e. surface, wind, temperature are variable? Is it possible that a higher Crr on a roller may actually be higher ranked (lower Crr) on the road as compound/profile is more amenable to "real world" conditions?

Cheers!
----
What is good in life? - To crush your enemie's dreams, see them dropped behind you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
Sunglasses: http://www.framesdirect.com/sunglasses
Tri Gear: http://www.atctrishop.com
Cheap Disc Wheel - http://www.wheelbuilder.com Tire Crr Data - http://www.biketechreview.com


Andrew Coggan

Nov 11, 09 7:42

Post #11 of 26 (424 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
Regarding Crr that has been calculated on rollers, do the differentials between tires in magnitude and ranking tend to hold up over ground

Not only do the differentials between tires "hold up", they do so with such precision that you can use the data to diagnose equipment problems (in this case, the outlier shown as a red square was found to be the result of bad bearings due to a missing spacer in a Zipp disk):




(This post was edited by Andrew Coggan on Nov 11, 09 7:42)


Tom A.

Nov 11, 09 7:48

Post #12 of 26 (414 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Regarding Crr that has been calculated on rollers, do the differentials between tires in magnitude and ranking tend to hold up over ground

Not only do the differentials between tires "hold up", they do so with such precision that you can use the data to diagnose equipment problems (in this case, the outlier shown as a red square was found to be the result of bad bearings due to a missing spacer in a Zipp disk):



...and to think that I was told by a prominent wheel manufacturer at Interbike that they didn't think that roller testing was "valid"... :-\


ktm520

Nov 11, 09 12:21

Post #13 of 26 (324 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Tom A.] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Tom,

I think what you are describing speaks to "reliability" and “sensitivity to change” of the testing on rollers. I am not questioning that as in such a controlled environment with calibrated system I would expect as much. Validity, however, is what I would like to know about, meaning do these "lab" measure or bench testing hold up when the tires are run on the road where the variables are different and certainly harder to control.

Cheers!



Andrew Coggan

Nov 11, 09 12:28

Post #14 of 26 (312 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
do these "lab" measure or bench testing hold up when the tires are run on the road

Yes - see the graph I posted.


peithy

Nov 11, 09 12:31

Post #15 of 26 (304 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Andrew Coggan] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting that graph, doc! Based on this information, if I were to do a couple of 20 min efforts on my rollers with different tube/tire setups at the same (fairly easy-to-attain) wattage, I should be able to graph out the average watts vs. average speed, correct? I'd love to be able to reliably do an at-home test on good flat-resistant tires...


Tom A.

Nov 11, 09 12:35

Post #16 of 26 (292 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
Thanks Tom,

I think what you are describing speaks to "reliability" and “sensitivity to change” of the testing on rollers. I am not questioning that as in such a controlled environment with calibrated system I would expect as much. Validity, however, is what I would like to know about, meaning do these "lab" measure or bench testing hold up when the tires are run on the road where the variables are different and certainly harder to control.

Cheers!

I'm thinking that you're not quite grasping the meaning of Andy's plot above.


Socalbeachbum

Nov 11, 09 12:36

Post #17 of 26 (292 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [peithy] [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyone else using PR3's????? I thought that was the tire of choice here. Thats what Ill be using.


jackmott

Nov 11, 09 12:40

Post #18 of 26 (280 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

the part on the left of the graph that says "Field test" represents values from actual on road testing with real bikes and people

the linearity of the values shows that the relative goodness of CRR remains constant roller or road


In Reply To:
Thanks Tom,

I think what you are describing speaks to "reliability" and “sensitivity to change” of the testing on rollers. I am not questioning that as in such a controlled environment with calibrated system I would expect as much. Validity, however, is what I would like to know about, meaning do these "lab" measure or bench testing hold up when the tires are run on the road where the variables are different and certainly harder to control.

Cheers!
----
What is good in life? - To crush your enemie's dreams, see them dropped behind you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
Sunglasses: http://www.framesdirect.com/sunglasses
Tri Gear: http://www.atctrishop.com
Cheap Disc Wheel - http://www.wheelbuilder.com Tire Crr Data - http://www.biketechreview.com


IRONwolf

Nov 11, 09 12:41

Post #19 of 26 (278 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Socalbeachbum] [In reply to] Can't Post

I like PR3s


As it turns out, what you have is less important than what you do with it...
-Bernd Heinrich, why we run


jackmott

Nov 11, 09 12:48

Post #20 of 26 (272 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Socalbeachbum] [In reply to] Can't Post

theres lots of tires with better rolling resistance than those (see sig)

but, they are pretty good on the rolling resistance/puncture resistance combo

In Reply To:
Anyone else using PR3's????? I thought that was the tire of choice here. Thats what Ill be using.
----
What is good in life? - To crush your enemie's dreams, see them dropped behind you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
Sunglasses: http://www.framesdirect.com/sunglasses
Tri Gear: http://www.atctrishop.com
Cheap Disc Wheel - http://www.wheelbuilder.com Tire Crr Data - http://www.biketechreview.com


Andrew Coggan

Nov 11, 09 12:48

Post #21 of 26 (271 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [peithy] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
Thanks for posting that graph, doc! Based on this information, if I were to do a couple of 20 min efforts on my rollers with different tube/tire setups at the same (fairly easy-to-attain) wattage, I should be able to graph out the average watts vs. average speed, correct? I'd love to be able to reliably do an at-home test on good flat-resistant tires...

If you've got rollers and a powermeter, you're good to go - and it will only take you ~5 min to collect the data, not 20 min.


ericstevens73

Nov 11, 09 13:08

Post #22 of 26 (243 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ktm520] [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my Veloflex Corsas as race tires - I get them from this guy http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item2c5192f780. 700cX20 clinchers... Are they flat resistant - not overly so - I flatted on my last ride, but had several hundred flat free miles prior to this event. But seriously, goat heads go through just about anything, so if you're overly concerned about flatting put in some of those tire liner things... Or do those make you slow???





.
TEAM LIFEWATER

"We shall not finally defeat AIDS, tuberculosis, malaria, or any of the other infectious diseases that plague the developing world until we have also won the battle for safe drinking water, sanitation, and basic health care." Kofi Annan Former Secretary-General United Nations
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ktm520

Nov 11, 09 13:09

Post #23 of 26 (240 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [Tom A.] [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I didn't look at Y axis label and assumed this was test-retest reliability for rollers only. My bad.

Cheers!


jackmott

Nov 11, 09 13:14

Post #24 of 26 (231 views)
Re: Clincher tire choice for IM Arizona [ericstevens73] [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah tire liners will worsen the rolling resistance too


In Reply To:
I love my Veloflex Corsas as race tires - I get them from this guy http://cgi.ebay.com/...?hash=item2c5192f780. 700cX20 clinchers... Are they flat resistant - not overly so - I flatted on my last ride, but had several hundred flat free miles prior to this event. But seriously, goat heads go through just about anything, so if you're overly concerned about flatting put in some of those tire liner things... Or do those make you slow???





.
----
What is good in life? - To crush your enemie's dreams, see them dropped behind you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!
Sunglasses: http://www.framesdirect.com/sunglasses
Tri Gear: http://www.atctrishop.com
Cheap Disc Wheel - http://www.wheelbuilder.com Tire Crr Data - http://www.biketechreview.com


Davelamite

Nov 11, 09 13:23

Post #25 of 26 (221 views)
Re: Question 2 comments? [IRONwolf] [In reply to] Can't Post

x2 for PR3's w matching colors to keep the ride looking good and rolling fast


Because Pirates Tri Harder - MTXE
http://www.scurvydogstriathlon.com

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