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Computrainer Pacer
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Banjodog1
Nov 9, 09 14:46
Post #1 of 17 (667 views)
Computrainer Pacer
Can't Post
I searched the forums but couldn't seem to pull up anything specifically about this, so here is my question (and if there is a previous thread about it, I apolgize)...maybe if you could point me to it?
I've been using the Computrainer for about 3 month now, mostly with ErgVideo (which is awesome...incredible workout!). For a change of pace the other day I tried out the 3D software with a pacer. I put him at 210 watts and figured I would stick with him. Well, his 210 watts had me losing ground IN A BIG WAY...it seems I pretty much had to do about 20-25 watts more than him to keep up. I did the calibration both at the beginning and at 10 and 20 minutes in as is recommended. Is this due pace discrepancy due to the pacer has more effecient (virtual) pedaling efficiency? I didn't see a place where you coud set the pacer body weight but maybe I just missed it as this would certainly make a difference. My computrainer does not have the newer adjustable aero drag factor that can be input so I don't imagine that can be an issue.
So, I've made a short question long. Bottom line: When you use the pacer do you just figure you need to do a correction for the wattage they are set at or am I missing something? Any help is much appreciated! :-)
gleveq
Nov 9, 09 15:07
Post #2 of 17 (648 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Banjodog1]
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This is one of the beautiful things about the CT. What the pacer is doing is riding a consistent wattage regardless of terrain and by maintaining 210 watts on every descent he can pretty much make up for any ground he loses for times you go over 210 on a climb.
If you try to hang with him at first it will kick your butt, but you will (hopefully) get better at maintaining wattage on the downhills which will pay huge dividends on the road.
I also like to put the pacer in draft mode and crank up his wattage and see how long I can hang on the back. You can get a very tough workout doing that.
I am not very techie, and others may have more involved answers for you, but this is my interpretation.......seems to make sense to me.
Have fun chasing MetalMan......you will know you are part of "the club" when your family catches you screaming obscenities at him during workouts. ;-)
G
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.
www.gorillamultisport.com
bshanberg
Nov 9, 09 15:13
Post #3 of 17 (641 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Banjodog1]
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Yes. that's it for the most part. Metal man puts out constant wattage regardless of ascent or descent. You, on the other hand, are likely putting out high watts on the hills and low watts on the descents. That's likely where metal man is dropping you.
In my opinion, its better to use metal man to mimic your most recent ride. That way you are racing against yourself, the last time you rode. That's a setting in the 3d options. You just need to make sure you are saving your race after your finish a workout.
devashish_paul
Nov 9, 09 15:17
Post #4 of 17 (638 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [gleveq]
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Have fun chasing MetalMan......you will know you are part of "the club" when your family catches you screaming obscenities at him during workouts. ;-)
The club gets even bigger when you're chasing metalman and you start getting dropped and your son comes buy and goes, "don't let him get away...push push"...
I swear the metalman must be 10 kg lighter than me cause it seems like I have to do 10-20% more wattage to close a gap on him...but in reality, I think its just in my head. I am pretty sure that metalman is the same weight and "aero profile" as me.
Now all I have to do is set metalman at 300W and get him to ride for me at Ironman France :-)
www.kestrelbicycles.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010
Banjodog1
Nov 9, 09 15:22
Post #5 of 17 (632 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [bshanberg]
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Thanks for the replies!
I did notice that if I let up on the watts on the downhills he would pass me which definately encouraged me to keep them high. But then I tried a flat course and the same thing happened...I needed to do 230 watts or so to keep up with him at 210 watts...on a flat road. We weren't drafting each other...let him get ahead so I was not in draft...had it turned off anyways, but stayed out just to be sure...didn't want a 5 minute penalty or anything :-). I would stay a constant distance behind, out of draft...and I would have to do 230-235 to his 210.
The good thing is this definately makes me work harder but just kind of frustrating to think I may be missing something with the setup...
Banjodog1
Nov 9, 09 15:33
Post #6 of 17 (623 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [devashish_paul]
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Sorry, didn't see this last response before I posted mine about the flat road...
Yep, I think it must just be in my head...I am overthinking it. I just need to keep up with him. I guess when I ride with someone on the road I can't say "Hey!! I should be keeping up with you because we are both the same weight and putting out 230 watts!!!" :-)
Thanks for the responses!
devashish_paul
Nov 9, 09 15:53
Post #7 of 17 (605 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Banjodog1]
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I've actually ended rides where I set up up metalman at 235, and had to work like a maniac at close to 280 W at the end to beat the CT pacer by a few meters. In the end his average wattage is 235 .... and of course, mine ends up at exactly 235. I've set him up at 240 and same deal.....a wild surge at the end of the workout to hammer him into the ground....and I end up at exactly 240!
It's in the head...it has to be otherwise the 2 of us would not end the workout with the same wattage. I have to work like a dog on uphills on flats cause I can't put out high watts on downhills.
I actually set up a bunch of courses with downhills no more than 2% and uphills no more than 6% to make the rides more useful. The really steep downhills and uphills on the CT are just weird and do not resemble road riding.
Iron Buckeye
Nov 10, 09 4:16
Post #8 of 17 (505 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Banjodog1]
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Stupid question perhaps, but do you have metal man's weight set to match yours?
devashish_paul
Nov 10, 09 4:29
Post #9 of 17 (497 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Iron Buckeye]
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Where do you set metal man's weight. I'm going to set him to 200 kg to pummel him....
www.kestrelbicycles.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010
Iron Buckeye
Nov 10, 09 5:47
Post #10 of 17 (469 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [devashish_paul]
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I don't have my CT handy at work, but if I remember right it's in the options window accessible from the main CT 3D screen. Select the pacer from the rider list in the lower left corner and pick edit (see image below). I'm 90% sure it's in there and you change it the same way you change your own setting. (I'll re-post later if I find something different).
By the way, in response to the OP's question, I found the following explination in he CT manual for why metal man always kicks ass:
"A Watts Pacer uses power differently than you do. You can't produce power at 100% efficiency, 100% of the time. The Pacer can. The Pacer may go slower than you up hills (where you can produce the highest power), but it can fly past you going downhill just the same. Also, even on flats, if you try comparing 200 watts from the Pacer against your '200 watts', the Pacer will be faster. You would have to be 100% efficient (see SpinScan) to produce the same speed for the same power as a Pacer"
Sounds like we're all doomed to Metal Man hell.
EDIT: confirmed the instrucitons above for changing Metal Man's weight are right.
(This post was
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by Iron Buckeye on Nov 10, 09 16:37)
Banjodog1
Nov 10, 09 6:07
Post #11 of 17 (454 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Iron Buckeye]
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In Reply To:
I don't have my CT handy at work, but if I remember right it's in the options window accessible from the main CT 3D screen. Select the pacer from the rider list in the lower left corner and pick edit (see image below). I'm 90% sure it's in there and you change it the same way you change your own setting. (I'll re-post later if I find something different).
By the way, in response to the OP's question, I found the following explination in he CT manual for why metal man always kicks ass:
"A watts pacer uses power differently than you do. You can't produce power at 100% efficiency, 100% of the time. The pacer can. The Pacer may go slower than you up hills (where you can produce the highest power), but it can fly past you going downhill just the same. Also, even on flats, if you try comparing 200 watts from the Pacer against your '200 watts', the Pacer will be faster. You would have to be 100% efficient (see SpinScan) to produce the same speed for the same power as a Pacer"
Sounds like we're all doomed to Metal Man hell.
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Thanks for the info on the rider weight. Did miss this and I would think it will definately make a difference to get the weights the same. Thanks for the other info as well...had a feeling this was part of it as my pedaling efficiency is, shall we say, "less than 100%"...it's more like the running efficiency of a toddler first learning to run. :-)
gleveq
Nov 10, 09 9:05
Post #12 of 17 (392 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Iron Buckeye]
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Sounds like we're all doomed to Metal Man hell.
Story of my life.....
G
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.
www.gorillamultisport.com
lightheir
Nov 10, 09 9:39
Post #13 of 17 (369 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [gleveq]
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In reply to
]
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In Reply To:
This is one of the beautiful things about the CT. What the pacer is doing is riding a consistent wattage regardless of terrain and by maintaining 210 watts on every descent he can pretty much make up for any ground he loses for times you go over 210 on a climb.
If you try to hang with him at first it will kick your butt, but you will (hopefully) get better at maintaining wattage on the downhills which will pay huge dividends on the road.
I also like to put the pacer in draft mode and crank up his wattage and see how long I can hang on the back. You can get a very tough workout doing that.
I am not very techie, and others may have more involved answers for you, but this is my interpretation.......seems to make sense to me.
Have fun chasing MetalMan......you will know you are part of "the club" when your family catches you screaming obscenities at him during workouts. ;-)
G
This is true - but I gotta be honest and say that pumping 250+ watts on a a 8+% downhill is too scary. I'll be going well over 35mph at that rate, and unless it's a race, I really don't like hammering at those speeds on prolonged downhills since one blip, and you're toast.
On a trainer though, pump those watts all day!
Dumper
Nov 10, 09 10:04
Post #14 of 17 (348 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [Banjodog1]
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could be wrong but i think it has more to do with metalmans perfect pedal stroke, if he is putting out 200w he is doing so with a perfect stroke, whereas yours via spinscan is imperfect so you require a higher wattage...
gleveq
Nov 10, 09 10:13
Post #15 of 17 (340 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [lightheir]
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That's what makes a CT so nice. You can safely work on improving your downhill power so that you CAN get after it on race day.
I know that my real world descending improved a ton after a winter chasing MetalMan.
G
It's a little like wrestling a gorilla.........you don't stop when you're tired.........you stop when the gorilla is tired.
www.gorillamultisport.com
swimbikerunski
Nov 10, 09 13:58
Post #16 of 17 (296 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [gleveq]
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Yes, most days are metal man hell.
On other days it's "Last Week's Me" hell when I race my TT from the week before.
Is there a club for those of us who yell at our previous selves?
bartturner
Jan 24, 10 6:52
Post #17 of 17 (151 views)
Re: Computrainer Pacer [swimbikerunski]
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This is an old thread. So maybe you found out the problem. But I had the exact same problem and it drove me crazy for about a week. What I found out is that I had accidently hit a button on the controller and set the drag number on the screen to 94%. I assume that is his drag. I changed it to 100% and everything was back to normal. To change it I think I hit the + before the workout started but about to start.
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