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IM St. George Bike and Run Review

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ALPINEMIST

Oct 29, 09 7:14

Post #51 of 60 (1094 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [TrekinKevin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks for taking the time to post the report and pictures. Course looks great.

cat

Oct 29, 09 8:56

Post #52 of 60 (1065 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [ryanp100] [In reply to]	Can't Post

How did you view the report? I can't find it. thanks.

TrekinKevin

Oct 29, 09 9:11

Post #53 of 60 (1058 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [cat] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I would say that our trip was essential to our peace-of-mind, particularly since this will be the first Full Distance Tri for some of our members. The combination of the unknowns about the area and the unknowns about going full distance, and the rumors about a hellish course, made us want to get out and see for ourselves. It is a completely new venue, and there is very little intel about the area.

After visiting, everyone came back excited about the prospects for the race, not dreading our choice.

It is a manageable course. A fun and beautiful course if you like desert settings. Sunrise on the red rock bluffs and canyons, and the wide panoramas are spectacular even for those who don't like the desert. But, the race will require superior course management. Not everyone has the discipline to plod along on a bike at 3-5mph on a short steep section to keep from going into to deeply into the anaerobic red zone, knowing that what you do at 10:00am may come back to haunt you on at 5:00pm on mile 16.

I doubt seriously that this is a PR course for anyone, but our group also does not see this a Destroyer of Men. I am really eager to see what Pros may show up, and how they perform here versus other races.

My personal opinion is that those racers who have been able to get away with hammering the bike leg to gain an advantage, then just hang on for the run as is often done in other races will find themselves loosing more ground than usual to those who have been conservative on the bike. Most of us know that the run is the thing for top finishing, so this is no real insight, but it is probably going to be more pronounced in St. George.

If you have not visited the course, done the hard short wall climbs, felt the road surface, wind and heat conditions have not followed that up with a half dozen 8% uphill and downhill runs after 115 miles, it is hard to describe, so a visit for us was important.

The area was great for training when we were there. No real problems with traffic and lights except for a busy section on RedHills Parkway, or the shoulderless chipseal pavement at mile 30-35 where you need to be a little careful. Drivers seem courteous, places to stop were plentiful, information easy to get.

TrekinKevin

Oct 29, 09 9:18

Post #54 of 60 (1053 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [ryanp100] [In reply to]	Can't Post

After my post yesterday regarding our road trip to St. George to pre-ride and pre-run the course, a number of people asked to see our report directly, rather than having to logon to our Yahoo Groups site. I've cut and pasted the report here for those who wish to see it. Be forwarned, though, it is very long.

There are photos of the trip, but this does require visiting the Yahoo Group site to see them. The link is here is you wish.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/LATCSG/

*************

Ironman St. George Course Pre-ride and Pre-run Report

Saturday 10/24/09 and Sunday 10/25/09

On Friday, October 23, 2009, eight members of the LA Tri Club who are participating in the inaugural 2010 Ironman in St. George, Utah, traveled to the venue to pre-ride and pre-run the course. The participants come from a broad spectrum of experience and ages. Ages ranged from under 30 to over 60, with 3 women and 5 men. One person has never done a triathlon of any kind. Our most experienced person has successfully completed seven Ironman races. We have two Legacy LA Marathon runners, with over 100 events between them. Others fall in between.
Quick Summary
The St. George Ironman Bike Course consists of a 20 mile section into near downtown St. George from the Sand Hollow Reservoir (T1), and two 45 mile loops that take you out into hilly terrain north of town. The first 20 mile section is along well traveled roads with good surface conditions, with approximately 1500� of total ascent. The two 45 mile loops are primarily on quiet 2-lane back roads except for the 10 mile return to town on U18, and with good surface conditions and some tricky climbs. Each loop gains about 2000� for a total course ascent of approximately 5,500�
There are climbs of up to 10% in spots, but nothing of any real duration. The longest consistent climb we measured was approximately 4 miles at 2% - 4% grade. Most riders would call this course �rollers on steroids� with somewhat slower uphills, somewhat faster downhills, and some short steep 8% - 12% leg-busting climbs throughout that will require good course management in order to save your legs for a very tough run course. There are plenty of opportunities for recovery, and plenty of opportunities to over-cook yourself with the short steeper wall climbs that can easily take you into the anaerobic red-zone for 3-5 minutes � longer in a few cases.
Despite rumors and posts in other forums reporting a teeth-rattling chip-sealed washboard and hellish climb-fest, our riders felt it was very fair and manageable Ironman bike leg, largely due to the fact that there are no long extended grinding climbs. It is a manageable course with fantastic scenery that will challenge mind and body, but will require patience and good course management.
The run course may be another story. The total ascent is approximately 2000� over the two 13 mile loops. The first section is a 2.5 mile 2% (rising to) 6% steady climb out of T2, then an immediate 8%-9% 400 yard grind after your right turn onto Red Hills Parkway will have you questioning your choice of Ironman venues for next year. What goes up must come down, and for every 8% uphill, there is an 8% quad-buster coming down. There is simply no flat section of this course � you are either going up, or coming down throughout the run. That being said, most of our runners felt that this course, too, was manageable. Probably no PR�s here, but a run-able course with proper management.
Two of the big unknowns are heat and wind. Locals say that winds are usually very strong in the spring. Due to the configuration of the surrounding canyons, headwinds may be coming at you from a number of directions throughout the day. Heat is another variable. Mean temperatures are rage from low 40�s to high 80�s in May (60�s average), and no way to tell what the day will bring. The area is very dry, so hydration will be, as usual, critical. Elevation ranges from 3000� to 4700�, but did not appear to affect our riders to any great degree. We averaged 15.5 miles mph (auto-paused on the computers), with slower than race-pace slow areas, and faster than average climbs and flat pulls. Weather was perfect � cloudless blue skies, morning temperature in the 50�s rising to the high 70�s around 2:00pm.

The Bike Course Pre-Ride

Start and Mile 1-30 through town
The bike course begins at Sand Hollow Reservoir, one of Utah�s newest State Parks, located approximately 15 miles east of St George. The new facility has public restrooms, a huge boat launch, and a massive parking lot that looks like it could easily hold 500+ cars. On race day, it is our understanding that no cars will be allowed into the parking area, and race participants will be bused into the start area. We�re not sure how non-racers will be able to gain access to the area, and parking outside the transition lot is limited along narrow 2-lane roads leading to the park entrance. The entire area is on large, flat plateau overlooking the reservoir. Not a tree in sight.
The reservoir is quite large, and appears to be at least partly man-made or dammed. Elevation is at about 3000� here. The shoreline is made of huge boulders going right to the water level. No sand or walk area at the waterline. The start will be in water with swimmers entering from the 80� wide boat launch. Swimmers will head straight out, make 3 right turns in a large square and a final left turn to exit the water back up the boat ramp for one loop after 2.4 miles. It is worth noting that the boat ramp is probably 100� � 150� long, fairly steep, and with very rough concrete (for vehicle traction). If the organizers do not cover the ramp with something, expect a painful run to transition.
Water conditions during our visit were excellent. Calm, flat, visibility of 20+ feet. However, we were advised by locals that due to the high winds that can kick up at various times of the year, the possibility of the swim being cancelled due to excessive chop does exist.
Transitioning to bike, and racers leave the plateau down a quick 100 yard downhill, out past the entrance and right turn onto 4300 West (Sand Hollow Road). The road surface is super smooth new asphalt in good condition, and riders get an immediate view of the beautiful, treeless, desert panorama that will be with them for the most of the next 112 miles. Grade is relatively flat, with a few long rises of 1% - 3%. This is wide open expanse, with relatively few houses or buildings. There will be little to no shade on the bike course except around miles 25-30 and perhaps miles 35-40.
At 3 miles a left turn on SR9 (at 3700 West) for about 4 miles and a left turn onto Telegraph Road for another 4.5 miles heads riders southwest on good pavement with the first elevation increase of app. 400 feet of ascent coming between miles 6-8 with 3%-6% grades, a tough little 8% uphill at around mile 8, then a flat cruise with a long fast downhill until the right turn onto Washington Parkway. Road surface up to the point is excellent.
The one mile climb up Washington Parkway has a hard little 9% uphill pull for about 300 yards, and brings you onto the Highway 15 overpass. At this point the current road ends, but a new frontage road connecting Washington Parkway to existing Buena Vista Blvd at Graham Manor is promised before the race in May. We took a 2.5 mile section of highway to bypass that area. The course will eventually provide a left turn onto Buena Vista from Washington Parkway, a right turn on Cactus Lane, a left on Green Springs Drive and then right onto Redhills Parkway.
Redhills Parkway at mile 16 brings riders to a busier traffic area as you approach town. Elevation is at 2800�, and total climb up to this point has been about 700�. Redhills Parkway is a narrow 2 lane road that will take you to onto the run course at around mile 18.5. This road winds for 5 miles along a high ridge overlooking the city on your left, and the view is terrific. The road is a fairly steady climb, has long rollers with roughly � mile between tops, and two 6% - 8% climbs � one roughly 2/10th of a mile in length and another steep section of a 300-400 yards. The road dips down with a fast, steep 8% -9% downhill to cross Bluff Street at mile 22, where you will begin the two bike loops. Road surface is still good here.
You�ll get to know the Bluff Street intersection very well. You pass it three times on the bike during your 2 laps, and 4 times during your 2 loop run. This would be a good place for family and friends to wait and take pictures of you with your tongue hanging out as you run up the 8% slope twice during the run. More to come on that later!
The next 7 miles are uneventful, flat to rolling, and a series of right and left turns on wide streets through suburban neighborhoods leading to Highway 91, and the first signs that you are headed out of Dodge for the high country. There is a beautiful section where 2000 North turns into Pioneer Parkway at around mile 25, and you swear you have been teleported to Kona. The sharp volcanic lava rock field will have you looking for stacked white rocks (lave graffiti). You have 30 miles under your belt, total ascent has been 1500�, you are still at about 3000� above sea level, and roads have been very good.

Mile 30 � 47 into the Paiute Lands
The right turn onto Highway 91 lets you know immediately that you are not in Kansas anymore. The road surface turns to old-county-road style chip seal pavement with no shoulder. Fortunately, this is a relatively short lived 4.5 miles with long rollers and about 300� of climb until you bear right onto CR-3184. The road surface here turns to fairly smooth old asphalt with a kind of pebble finish surface, and your chip seal-rattling time is done, at least for the next 35 miles until you hit it again on lap 2.
The CR-3184 road to Gunlock is one of the most beautiful sections of the ride. Our age-group champion �Legacy� Lou Briones has dubbed this area Gunlock and the Three Bears, because there are 3 progressively more significant wall climbs along this section. A Baby climb, and Mama Climb, and the Poppa climb at the switchback at mile 47. This road winds through Paiute Indian land through a stunning canyon alongside a small river. Hopefully, the river will swell in spring to provide a really breathtaking roll. Mama climb at mile 44.5 serves you up a nasty little � mile hill with an 11% grade. Be careful of this one � it has the potential to eat you up as you get to the next climbing area.
NOTE: It is worth mentioning here that CR-3184 has 5 cattle guards in the road that you will need to pass over. These metal grates can be a little unnerving, but if you hit them straight on at a decent speed, and keep your weight off the bars, you should have no problems. Whatever you do, do not go over these slowly, or brake on them. After we walked over the first one, rode slowly over the second one and figured them out, some of us just bunny-hopped the 2-3 yard fixtures at high speed, but that may not be a wise thing to do.
The Poppa climb at mile 47 has a step switchback with arguably the toughest climb on the ride. This is a one mile long toughie that could eat your lunch, especially if you are on our second lap. The first � mile is 5% - 6%, but the second � mile jumps to 7% - 9% with an 11% section a few hundred yards from the top.
From mile 34 to 47 you have added 1000� to your GPS - the switchback climb adds another 400�. You are at about 4300� elevation at this point, and have climbed about 3,200� over the last 48 miles. Altitude did not appear to be having much effect on our riders. Since the group only did 1 loop of the bike, plus the first 20 miles into town, we do not have dead accurate ascent figures, but simple math puts this course at about 5,300 total feet of climb � about 1000� more than advertised.
The next 1.5 miles is a mild 1%-3% slightly uphill roll leading to the right turn onto highway U18 that will head you back to town. Elevation 4450�, but you are not quite done.

Mile 48 � 66 back to St. George
After the long anticipation of the switchback climb, your mind somehow tells you �it�s all downhill from here�. And while there is nothing really serious up ahead, the right turn at mile 49.5 onto U18 is a little disappointing when you see a two mile 6% climb ahead of you. The next 5 miles on U18 will take you up another 250� to the highest point on the ride at 4700�, with long rollers of 5-8 mph uphill�s and 25-35 mph downhills. One of the notable features of the route south on U18 is that a nice fast recovery downhill is a little spoiled by a persistent strong headwind that you will not shake until you hit town again at mile 66. The headwind appears to be a consistent year-round feature, according to local experts.
The next 10-11 miles starting the long downhill back to town at mile 57 are just plain fun. U18 is a busy state highway, (U18 becomes Bluff Street) and you will get buffeted by the traffic and the headwind. But road surface is very good, it is 9+ miles of fast downhill (35+mph) down to the 3000� level before turning right onto Snow Canyon Parkway (smile, remember your fans are at that corner) to do another 45 miles loop.

The Run Course Pre-run

T2 to Mile 3
As mentioned in the summary, the St. George run course will be a rude awakening for many. It is perpetually hilly, including 3 grades of more than 8% to 10%. The terrain is either up or down, with virtually no flat anywhere on the course. There is no shade cover save for a short 1.5 mile section of Diagonal Blvd. Road surface is good throughout, and much of the gravel shoulder on Redhill Parkway is usable if you prefer to keep off the pavement.
The start of the run out of T2 in the old Downtown section of St. George is just plain hard. Most runners need 2-3 miles to get their stride together, and tend to hit the run too fast until they can get themselves together to find their legs and control their pace. The quick left onto the 5% - 7% uphill grade for � mile on Main Street makes this difficult to do. Veering left on Diagonal, runners maintain a 3% - 5% uphill section for another 1.5 miles. Turn right on Bluff Street at (U18).
In order to add mileage to the course, the designers needed to add a couple of small out-and-back sections. The first is at approximately 2 miles into the run with a right turn onto 1250 North, a little 4/10 mile dead-end turnaround that takes you up to the Red Hills municipal golf course and the Elks lodge. This out-and-back continues the climbing, however, and adds two quick 8% and 10% jumps of approximately 100-150 yards each. Turn around, head back down and turn right back on Diagonal and another right onto Bluff St at mile 3.

Mile 3 to Mile 6.5
Redhills Parkway is the majority of the run course. Runners will stay on this 2 lane downtown by-pass that rolls along a bluff high over the city, offering a great panoramic view to the south of St. George. The airport to the southwest actually has planes landing below you. The right onto RedHills Parkway takes you immediately into an 8% - 9% uphill for approximately 4/10 of a mile. When you hit the top of this grade, you will have ascended almost 400� in 4 miles since the start.
The next 3 miles is a series of long rollers with until the turnaround at just under 7 miles. There is another 8% grade downhill for approximately 3/10 mile at mile 5.5. At around this point, an extra loop section apparently takes you off-road for about 3/10 of a mile. We were not able to find this section, so not information is available. This section is only used on the outbound run, not the return according to the Ironman website.

Turnaround to Mile 13 or Finish
The turn at 1000 East starts the 6.5 miles back to town, where you will reverse the two 8% - 9% grades you climbed and descended earlier. The left turn onto Diagonal will provide some recovery time with 3 miles of 2% - 3% downhill, before starting it all over after the turnaround at mile 13 at T2. The next 5 miles from mile 13 � 18 takes you back to the hilly section, and runners will really need to keep their mental game together as they deal with grades. Runners who will be going later into the evening may find this last loop particularly difficult as they deal with what is likely to be a desolate long stretch in the dark on Redhill Parkway. After passing the final uphill on mile 23, the 3 mile easy downhill cruise into downtown will present a classic run finish to your race.

Thank You Participants!:
Kevin Berg
�Legacy� Lou Briones
Shelley Gluck
Clark Harding
Dr. Barry Leonard
Paul Osterhout
Carine Park
Cherryl Rose

whittimd

Oct 29, 09 10:57

Post #55 of 60 (1020 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [TrekinKevin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

So is this a Tri bike course or a road bike course with clipons?
thanks

goldenboy

Nov 4, 09 14:40

Post #56 of 60 (930 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [whittimd] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

So is this a Tri bike course or a road bike course with clipons?
thanks

TT bike with compact crankset.

whittimd

Nov 4, 09 16:23

Post #57 of 60 (909 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [goldenboy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Thanks....I wasnt keen on spending cash to outfit my road bike with new bars and clipons...after reading Gordo, I thought I would have to. TT Bike is much better.

Holyman

Dec 1, 09 22:04

Post #58 of 60 (649 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [rockntrigirl] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Anyone else planning on attending the upcoming group bike ride for Ironman St George this Saturday (December 5th)?

Mac

Dec 2, 09 6:55

Post #59 of 60 (623 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [goldenboy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Just curious...I have always heard of compact cranks - never paid much attention.
What is the advantage that a regular set-up can't give you with the proper cassette?

goldenboy

Dec 2, 09 9:07

Post #60 of 60 (606 views)

Re: IM St. George Bike and Run Review [Mac] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Just curious...I have always heard of compact cranks - never paid much attention.
What is the advantage that a regular set-up can't give you with the proper cassette?

I'm not a gearing expert so this might not be completely correct, but the reason my coach advised me to switch to a 50-34 on the front (and keep my 11-26 cassette on the back) is it would allow me to spin at a higher cadence in those easy gears like 34-21, 34-23, 34-26 and thus less force or strength is required when grinding the hills. The goal is to reach the end of that 112 miles with less fatigue. I gave up 53-11 with a Standard setup but I trained and raced (IMMOO) on a Compact Crank and didn't miss the big, big gears. For me, if I'm spinning out at 50-11 then I probably need to stop spinning, coast and conserve energy in an Ironman.

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