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Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover
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Emilio
Nov 4, 09 12:26
Post #26 of 51 (468 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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I have never made the claim that two wetsuits will work as well as the T1 Water Rover.
Emilio De Soto II
emilio@desotosport.com
http://www.desotosport.com
Now Available: De Soto Compression Socks with Patented graduated compression for better recovery! A better sock for less money. As with all our products, we offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee...we believe if you test our product, you will keep it!
callidus
Nov 4, 09 12:52
Post #27 of 51 (447 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Emilio]
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Just wondering who else has swam in this suit besides you?. I like the idea of the water rover so it's on my short list for next year but I'd like to see a review / feedback or something first.
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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.
Dave Luscan
Nov 4, 09 12:53
Post #28 of 51 (447 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [h2ofun]
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Cool, are you gonna wear it at World's to improve your USAT ranking?
Sometimes I'm just a jerk, I know, I know...
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 13:23
Post #29 of 51 (428 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Emilio]
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You make claims about wearing two wetsuits being bad, and the Water Rover being good. Without evidence it's hype.
draketriathlon
Nov 4, 09 13:30
Post #30 of 51 (420 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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They aren't the same thing this isn't rocket science. Two wetsuits isn't one wetsuit with more rubber. Not to mention if you actually looked at the water rover's design you would understand Emilio didn't just throw more rubber on the whole thing and then say this is the best. But then again why am i trying to reason with someone who thinks that just putting two wetsuits together is the same thing so never mind... Maybe i should put two disk wheels on my bike that should be faster right its double...
monty
Nov 4, 09 13:31
Post #31 of 51 (418 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [callidus]
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Just wondering who else has swam in this suit besides you?. I like the idea of the water rover so it's on my short list for next year but I'd like to see a review / feedback or something first. \\
I will be getting one of the first one, and I'm swimming a bunch right now so that I can do a proper test on it..But what I can tell you is that in the lat 80's, I had a 7mm suit made by QR that I swam in, and it was definately faster than the stock suit. Dan made about 4 or 5 of them, and I selctivly gave them to a few of my buddies, and all of them swam faster than in the normal QR suit. So I'm very excited about having actual flexable rubber in the thicker parts than the heavy stuff we used back then. I do not know if it will be faster for everyone, but from my past expirence with thick rubber, it sure will be for me, and most everyone else. And I will test it against the normal version of the T1, and no wetsuit in my trials....
irunman34
Nov 4, 09 13:37
Post #32 of 51 (413 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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I think you need to go back and take some physics classes brother, and stop be so argumentative for the sake of arguing. Two wetsuits together is not the same as what Emilio did with his wetsuit, plus if you look at it (which I did in the video from interbike) there was more engineering and thought than just slapping two pieces of rubber together. I am not going to waste my time explaining physics of buoyancy, drag, efficiency etc. to someone who is seemingly oblivious to science and just wants to egg people on. I say good job to DeSoto for thinking outside the box, and coming up with something that could prove to help alot of people.
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 13:38
Post #33 of 51 (413 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [draketriathlon]
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I conveyed my very limited trial with you. You've got no science at all. Show me tests, or it's hype.
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 13:40
Post #34 of 51 (409 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [irunman34]
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I'm not arguing at all. I have no indication that his sales material is real, so I'm asking for science instead of hype.
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 13:43
Post #35 of 51 (406 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [monty]
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Please share what you learn from your WR trials.
Emilio
Nov 4, 09 14:03
Post #36 of 51 (398 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [callidus]
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3 other people, that is it. If you have doubts, don't buy one until you hear reviews from other people, but truth be told, this is going to be a well kept secret so the Water Rover owners will reap this advantage as long as they can.
But remember, if you buy a Water Rover, you will get the same 100% satisfaction guarantee as with any other T1 Wetsuit.
De Soto Sport offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee on all of our wetsuits. If you are not satisfied with one of our wetsuits at the time you receive it, or if it does not perform to your satisfaction within the first 14 days of the purchase date, return it for repair, replacement, or refund. This same offer applies if you buy a T1 Wetsuit from one of our Authorized Dealers.
Emilio De Soto II
emilio@desotosport.com
http://www.desotosport.com
Now Available: De Soto Compression Socks with Patented graduated compression for better recovery! A better sock for less money. As with all our products, we offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee...we believe if you test our product, you will keep it!
Emilio
Nov 4, 09 14:24
Post #37 of 51 (373 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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In Reply To:
You make claims about wearing two wetsuits being bad, and the Water Rover being good. Without evidence it's hype.
I want to thank you if I did not already because, with all due respect, you are the one who confirmed my claims that two wetsuits don't make you any faster. As for my claim about the Water Rover being good, by the time it becomes available, it will be probably be sold out. So it looks like people are either buying off on what you call hype, or they are buying off on what I call a 100% Satisfaction Guarantee:
De Soto Sport offers a 100% satisfaction guarantee on all of our wetsuits. If you are not satisfied with one of our wetsuits at the time you receive it, or if it does not perform to your satisfaction within the first 14 days of the purchase date, return it for repair, replacement, or refund. The same applies to any T1 Wetsuit purchased from a De Soto Authorized Dealer.
Evidence has not been disclosed yet for specific reasons. My logic is why release more information than necessary? An analogy....if you are race director and your race sells out months before the race date, would you spend time and money advertising your race a few weeks before? Probably not.
I hope you are skeptical because you are sincerely interested in possibly buying a Water Rover. Sometime in the next few months, you will be able to perform your own tests on it. De Soto Triathlon Company has been in business now for 20 years. I have never sold anything without offering the same 100% satisfaction guarantee, and we are thriving because we always sold the truth. If something is true then it is not hype. There is no reason for me to start selling on hype now.
Emilio De Soto II
emilio@desotosport.com
http://www.desotosport.com
Now Available: De Soto Compression Socks with Patented graduated compression for better recovery! A better sock for less money. As with all our products, we offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee...we believe if you test our product, you will keep it!
draketriathlon
Nov 4, 09 14:57
Post #38 of 51 (347 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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I conveyed my very limited trial with you. You've got no science at all. Show me tests, or it's hype.
Well i'll take the opinion of someone who i have known for nearly 3 years, who's ran a WETSUIT business for 20 years, and who i have talked to about the Water Rover about the fact they have done testing on it. Moreso than someone who I have never met, who thinks comparing a wetsuit with more rubber is the same as slapping two suits together and who obviously hasn't actually looked at the Water Rover's design.
But like Emilio said keep your 5mm one i'm not gonna argue with you on that just makes it easier on me.
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 15:45
Post #39 of 51 (331 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Emilio]
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My meager trial offers no evidence that two wetsuits, or more neoprene is faster. My simple trial does nothing to support the claim that the Water Rover has any benefits.
You've presented no evidence to evaluate your claims. You've presented no substance to critique or be skeptical of. You've disclosed no data nor measurable, repeatable tests. Yes, I'm asking for evidence because evidence can be used to make informed choices.
DamonHenry
Nov 4, 09 15:48
Post #40 of 51 (326 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [draketriathlon]
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Again, I have no opinion. I'm requesting evidence. If you get a WR, swim it, and collect evidence, please share with the rest of us whether the wetsuit is faster or slower.
Emilio
Nov 4, 09 16:06
Post #41 of 51 (312 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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In Reply To:
My meager trial offers no evidence that two wetsuits, or more neoprene is faster. My simple trial does nothing to support the claim that the Water Rover has any benefits.
You've presented no evidence to evaluate your claims. You've presented no substance to critique or be skeptical of. You've disclosed no data nor measurable, repeatable tests. Yes, I'm asking for evidence because evidence can be used to make informed choices.
You are correct, that your trial of swimming in two wetsuits does nothing to support the Water Rover has any benefits because you did not swim in a Water Rover, and I have made no claim whatsoever that swimming in a Water Rover is like swimming in two wetsuits.
You are correct and I will not be presenting any evidence yet. The only way for you or anyone to be able to tell if the Water Rover is going to be faster for you is to test it. Many people will be able to do that less than two months, when they receive their orders. The people who have bought the Water Rover, understand my concept, and believe in my claim. They also have confidence in my company, our history of quality (not hyped) products, as well as the customer service we take so much pride in having. They know they will not be screwed (no better way to put it).
Thanks again for keeping me on my toes.
Emilio De Soto II
emilio@desotosport.com
http://www.desotosport.com
Now Available: De Soto Compression Socks with Patented graduated compression for better recovery! A better sock for less money. As with all our products, we offer a 100% satisfaction guarantee...we believe if you test our product, you will keep it!
show pony
Nov 4, 09 16:10
Post #42 of 51 (307 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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Ya know, I kinda like Emilio, but I'm amazed the typical ST
"SHOW ME THE DATA!!"
crowd is giving him a free ride on this one...
blood, sweat...and big gears
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
- Muhammad Ali
Joe M
Nov 4, 09 16:25
Post #43 of 51 (296 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [DamonHenry]
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I don't know about two wetsuits being "better".... but, if it just the thickness of neoprene was the only issue then you could wrap yourself up as a giant roll of neoprene of say 100mm thick. ;-)
In practical terms, the problem with neoprene as a material is flexiblily and balance of bouyance (not just bouyance). The problem with floatation is that you can actually get too much float in the wrong places. To much float in the legs can actually slow you down because you loose the ability to kick properly into the water to provide propulsion. In the mid-eighties I remember wearing some of the original "tri" specific wetsuits and found them to be far too bouyant... far to restrictive... lacked flexibility... and took time to remove. Many of these and other problems were because most of us were still learning the sport... in fact, most of what I read today is taken as common knowledge but was totally unheard of almost 30 yrs. ago when I started in this sport.
I have used DeSoto stuff pretty much since he founded the company... and, I can testify that in almost every instance his products are mark on in terms of being very triathlete-useful. That's not to say they were perfect, but they were and are good products that definately show that thought and testing goes into what is produced. (and... no... I have not economic benefit from say this... it is just the facts as I have I experienced with DeSoto products in general... and, a few competitors as well).
Now... about the wet suit thickness limit... I believe this is true with regard to USAT... but, I beleive you could not wear the Rover Wetsuit in the Olympics ...(but, could be wrong... it's been a long time since I looked up the Olympic rules regarding wetsuits).
I was wondering... does anyone know if WTC has a neoprene thickness limit? Afterall, ...IM distances is where properly balanced bouyance and comfort really counts.
Joe Moya
draketriathlon
Nov 4, 09 16:35
Post #44 of 51 (284 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Joe M]
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You can not wear it in ITU races so you can not wear it in the olympics, they have a 5mm limit and a 72 degree limit. WTC uses USAT rules for the most part so that shouldn't be a problem i don't believe.
Joe M
Nov 4, 09 16:50
Post #45 of 51 (277 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [draketriathlon]
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WTC uses USAT rules for the most part so that shouldn't be a problem i don't believe.
Well... not exactly... WTC has some rules that USAT doesn't have... example... the last I looked, you can't crawl across the finish line in a WTC race (...as if someone actually inforces that one for the age grouper... I personally have never seen or heard it enforced).... and, you can't ride a bike that meet a standard that is considered a tri-specific or road specific bike... i.e., you can't ride a beach cruser for example in an IM... I call this the IMAZ rule because a guy road a beach cruzer-like bike with sandals for the bike portion.
draketriathlon
Nov 4, 09 16:51
Post #46 of 51 (273 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Joe M]
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In Reply To:
WTC uses USAT rules for the most part so that shouldn't be a problem i don't believe.
Well... not exactly... WTC has some rules that USAT doesn't have... example... the last I looked, you can't crawl across the finish line in a WTC race (...as if someone actually inforces that one for the age grouper... I personally have never seen or heard it enforced).... and, you can't ride a bike that meet a standard that is considered a tri-specific or road specific bike... i.e., you can't ride a beach cruser for example in an IM... I call this the IMAZ rule because a guy road a beach cruzer-like bike with sandals for the bike portion.
Thats what "for the most part" ment....
Joe M
Nov 4, 09 17:25
Post #47 of 51 (256 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [draketriathlon]
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Well... I dug around... and, this is what I have been able to find... BTW, it's amazingly hard to find the WTC exceptions to the USAT rules... so hard in fact, I really didn't find the rule exceptions... but, I found this:
It's a USAT FAQ listed at the Ironman site...hmmm... go figure:
http://ironman.com/faq/usatfaq
7. What kind of wetsuits are approved and allowed?
All suits approved by FINA are legal to use in USAT events.
I'll be... if I can find a FINA approved list of wetsuits... they have a swimsuit / speed suit list... but, I can't find a wetsuit list. I think this is a typo or something.
monty
Nov 4, 09 17:51
Post #48 of 51 (246 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Joe M]
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7. What kind of wetsuits are approved and allowed?
All suits approved by FINA are legal to use in USAT events.\\
Pretty sure it is speedsuits they are referring to here. Fina does not allow wetsuits for the most part in their OW races...
callidus
Nov 5, 09 0:35
Post #49 of 51 (191 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [monty]
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I'll look forward to your review then.
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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.
callidus
Nov 5, 09 0:44
Post #50 of 51 (190 views)
Re: Just ordered my Desoto Water Rover [Emilio]
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Well, I don't intend to buy one until I've heard some reviews/feedback - and it seems I will have to wait for that. No problem.
Your guarantee is pretty good (for US folks) and my Dad has a T1 which he is very happy with, so I'm sure the quality of the product will be good. As a side note, I just checked your german site and see, as an example, the T1 pullover selling for EUR 240 ($350) - in my case it's much cheaper to buy from the US (even though I am in Europe) which makes returning items much more difficult which is why I really rely on reviews/feedback first.
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Searching for the bliss of ultimate exertion.
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