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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Kinesio Tape - Anyone?

JSA

Aug 20, 08 7:30

Post #1 of 16 (462 views)

Kinesio Tape - Anyone?	Can't Post

I posted before that, a week after IMLP, I took a spill on my bike and dislocated my right shoulder. MRI revealed a torn labrum. I have IMWI in 2 1/2 weeks, then, will discuss surgery with my ortho after the race.

Swimming has been a little tender. What I did not expect was the shoulder pain I have been experiencing in the aero position. My bike was at Guru after IMLP, so, I rode my road bike for 3 weeks. I got my Guru back last Thurs and have done 4 rides. My shoulder gets pretty sore in the aero posiiton b/c I have to pull my arm "across" my chest to get in the aero bars.

Ortho is considering Kinesio taping to provide a little stability and, evidently, the "compression aspect" of the tape can relieve some of the pain.

Anyone used kinesio tape before? Does it work? Any thoughts on whether it would work in this situation (i.e., would it help the shoulder or simply restriction my motion on the swim)?

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

Brian in MA

Aug 20, 08 7:40

Post #2 of 16 (450 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Haven't used it on the shoulder before but have used it for my calves and arches. It worked for me as far as providing support/compression - when I used it for my calf it was after experiencing a very tight pull during my last long run before Boston a few years ago. Sports doc I was going to for chiro/ART gave me some of the tape as part of the treatment and it wasn't a problem on race day.

"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Erik

Aug 20, 08 7:44

Post #3 of 16 (445 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

since i saw a few racers in the olympics wearing it, i expect everyone to have it at the next local sprint race i go to. they will probably have it at the pre-race expo too.

----------------------------------------------------
Striving to have sex more than 66 times per year

JSA

Aug 20, 08 7:48

Post #4 of 16 (434 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [Erik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

since i saw a few racers in the olympics wearing it, i expect everyone to have it at the next local sprint race i go to. they will probably have it at the pre-race expo too.

Yep, my Ortho got a kick out of that as well. He used it quite a bit when he was the ortho for the UCLA football team. By his own admission, he has never used it on a swimmer before, so, thought I would throw it out there and see if anyone has any experience with it in the pool.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

rroof

Aug 20, 08 7:48

Post #5 of 16 (430 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah - works great. I've been "taping" strained, injured, etc. body parts for years. As Erik mentioned, probably going to get a lot more popular now with all the athletes taped during the Olympics (then fade away from memory until London ... same as after Athens ...)
____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

JSA

Aug 20, 08 7:50

Post #6 of 16 (424 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [rroof] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Roof: I figured you have used it in your practice. How restrictive is it? Any (educated) guess on how it would work in the pool and on the shoulder?

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

jackmott

Aug 20, 08 8:10

Post #7 of 16 (400 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Would any doctors or physios care to comment on the claimed method of action of Kinesio tape? Reading up on it, it sounds like total nonsense.

It sounds like a cheap, easy, safe placebo though.

gienopes

Aug 20, 08 8:19

Post #8 of 16 (392 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I saw in interview with Kerri Walsh's ortho, who did her shoulder surgery, and he basically laughed at her wearing that tape. He said he had nothing to do with her wearing it and was highly skeptical of it really doing anything.

rroof

Aug 20, 08 8:28

Post #9 of 16 (380 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Roof: I figured you have used it in your practice. How restrictive is it? Any (educated) guess on how it would work in the pool and on the shoulder?

Won't work well in the water. Can sweat, shower with certain body parts (knee/ankle/wrist) though. Shoulder I would think would be the least effective, but I have no experience there so I can't comment. Also to clarify, the "kinesio" taping is a more modern term/theory (and some a little wacky) as taping has been done by athletic trainers (for example) forever with regular old cloth/porous sports tape with pre-tape spray stick or under fabco lining for years. Anyone expecting this to support a SLAP lesion or rotator cuff tear in the shoulder is sadly mistaken! However, for a healing sprain, tendonitis, etc. - yeah, works great! There is also a lot of newer research into the bodies proprioceptive mechanisms that taping, shoes, orthotics, hand grips/gloves, etc. effectiveness.
____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

tri-ath-UH-lete

Aug 20, 08 8:28

Post #10 of 16 (378 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If it's used correctly for the right condition, ya, it'll help. I twice tore my labrum several years ago and used it for a while when I'd mountain bike (pulling up on the bars was causing some pain).

It's pretty tough to keep on a shoulder....more so since you'll be swimming with it. Be sure that they use "extra water resistant", not the normal water resistant stuff. Also, I would spray the area with TuffSkin first to help it stay on.

The tape is pretty easy to apply, but the tough part is determining what muscles to tape. That's why Walsh's tape would change on a day-to-day basis: deltoid one day, then the SITS the next, then delt and supra the next. Be prepared to spend some time and $$$ on tape before race day to perfect it. Good luck.

JSA

Aug 20, 08 8:35

Post #11 of 16 (363 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [rroof] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Anyone expecting this to support a SLAP lesion or rotator cuff tear in the shoulder is sadly mistaken!

Thanks for the info. This is purely a pain relief attempt at this point. The sole purpose is to try to alleviate some of the discomfort to get me through IMWI. After IMWI, most likely going under the knife.

It is not unbearable, just quite uncomfortable at this point. Honestly, I will take even a placebo effect just to get through the race. Not expecting miracles, just a little pain management.

_______________________________________________

"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike

The people who keep me moving:

TRANSITION - Get Moving!

eDeRoche

Aug 20, 08 8:40

Post #12 of 16 (347 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [gienopes] [In reply to]	Can't Post

with all due respect, the Ortho laughed because he is NOT a manual therapist. I was surprised to read that rroof used it as I have not ever experienced an ortho who did apply the tape themselves. I have been using it for years and with huge success and to be honest I too was seriously skeptical when I first began its use. Works especially well after Graston or ART treatment(s).

The tape is NOT restrictive at all. go on about your daily life without thinking of the tape minus bein aware of it when you slip on socks or a shirt which can catch the edge of the tape and peel it off.

Another good tip I have used and suggested to others is that the tape is heat activated, meaning the adhesive will stick much better if heat is applied. A hair dryer on the tape just after application works well or a hot pack if the injury is not acute. If you have neither, simply rub vigorously back and forth so that friction creates heat and that also works very well.

hope this helps.

Erik DeRoche MS, DC, CSCS
"Spectacular achievements are always preceded by spectacular preparation."

jackmott

Aug 20, 08 9:33

Post #13 of 16 (301 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [eDeRoche] [In reply to]	Can't Post

ok then, eDeRoche - what is the tape doing? How in the world can tape applied to skin affect something like tendonitis or muscle/tendon tears?

Why is it products like this always have great results with things that heal on their own anyway?

rroof

Aug 20, 08 9:57

Post #14 of 16 (280 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

quick anecdoate to help you since I see this in runners all the time ... not exactly "kinesio tape" but you get the idea:

Acute achilles tendonitis - not to be taken lightly and a common overuse injury. Can it go away on its own as you mention? Yup. Or, can progress to tendinosis and ruin an entire season or longer. Best way to "heal" any overuse tendonitis is to simply NOT use the tendon! Easy right? Well, not really. I can easily tape your ankle to minize continues stress through the achilles tendon to help it "heal" in your eyes (forget other treatment modalities here like ice, stretching, NSAIDs, etc.). Can just put you in a CAM boot to immobilize as well - works great but a bit overkill on some pts. Also, I find "taping" works best on active people who aren't going to stop/rest no matter what anyone says. Others learn their lessons from simple, acute things that have progressed on to bigger and better things (like the Chinese Olympic hurdler and his achilles tear ...)
____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

eDeRoche

Aug 20, 08 10:02

Post #15 of 16 (277 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Man, calling me out so forcefully!

Well, for starters for some the explanation may seem a bit mystical as many have a hard time wrapping their heads around "muscle activation" or the theories around lymph drainage or myofascial planes or even how pain can cause muscles to essentially "turn off." Too many things to discuss and to explain in and around each of those sub-topics.

However, to explain, albeit perhaps poorly... I have used K-tape (kinesiotape) to act as a support system or like a "safety blanket" of sorts for muscle strains (acute/chronic even Grade 2/3), Ligament sprains etc. and have also used it for assistance with helping to reduce bruising/edema/inflammation. In theory the tape acts somewhat like when we massage an area. Tactile stimulus to an area has been shown to reduce pain and also has been shown to cause deeper effects like stimulating muscle tissue to "fire."

Now, I will use a weight training example... even though no one on ST uses any form of resistance training as it surely does not help performance (yet another discussion in and of itself) :)! .... anyway, when an athlete/individual is having difficulty "firing" a muscle during a specific lift one can be coached to tap the muscle or press into it to essentially "wake it up." Probably due to stimulus of the GTO or Muscle spindles (admittedly I do not know which is stimulated) or due to stimulating a reflex response. Now, Take that same athlete/individual, place the tape on them and the tape does that job for them (meaning, it acts to stimulate the muscle(s) in the same way).

We all know, I hope, that pain or dysfunction in one region or another can cause someone to compensate by "moving around" the pain and using other synergists to do the job of the larger inhibited muscles... I think we can all agree on this. Now, if we can create a pain inhibition loop and support that same injured/inhibited muscle/region those compensatory actions can then be eliminated. Case in point... Walsh, the volleyball player, has had surgery to her right shoulder (not sure for what in particular) but most likely as a result of her previous injuries she has developed compensatory actions with her spike or even setting and this can cause pain. Those little rotator cuff muscles are NOT meant to be torque producers. With the K-tape in the manner applied they have been given a bit of support/comfort and have been stimulated.

I wish I had exact numbers for you Jackmott... I can tell you though I have taped age-groupers up to world class athletes much like Mrs. Walsh and have had phenomenal short term and long term success along with other therapies utilized. I will say that I like skepticism as no new ideas/theories worth a damn have ever come about without it! If you wish, why don't you fly out here to Bellingham, WA have me work on you, FREE OF CHARGE, for a full week and see if you do not perform better. I PROMISE you will. Bold statement... YES but experience has told me that I can back that up on most if not all age-groupers who beat on themselves senselessly and expect their bodies to perform at 100% when it matters.

I have used it successfully on many swimmers with little to no problems besides after about 2hrs in the water the tape will be less adhering. using the water proof variety helps here but is not 100% water proof of course. application of the tape has to be maticulous and with the use of the hair dryer/heat source it will stick much better and longer and SHOULD NOT limit any ROM. if it does limit you, it was applied incorrectly.

Sincerely,
Erik DeRoche MS, DC, CSCS
"Spectacular achievements are always preceded by spectacular preparation."

ChrisM

Aug 20, 08 10:17

Post #16 of 16 (254 views)

Re: Kinesio Tape - Anyone? [JSA] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I went over the handlebars in February this year resulting in a Grade III (ortho said possibly even grade IV, whatever, I tore all the ligaments) shoulder separation. Training for IMAZ 4/08. My PT used the tape on me, I think it helped a lot. It's not just like scotch tape people, it's incredibly strong, and provided the support for my shoulder while I rehabbed that the ligaments used to give. It was especially sore about 7-8 miles into a run, since my shoulder blade no longer had any support from the top. Also used it to swim in, helped to keep the shoulder "together" for lack of a better word.

Don't forget to shave the area before you put it on or it will hurt like a mother when you take it off