Bike Shops
Coaches
Fitters
Race Calendar
*NEW* Running Stores
Stack & Reach
Training Log
Triathlon Clubs
MAIN
INDEX
RULES &
LEGEND
LOG
IN
Search
this forum
this category
all forums
for
All words
Any words
Whole Phrase
(
options
)
Newsletter Signup
Slowtwitch Forums
:
Triathlon Forum
:
Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM
1
2
3
4
5
6
View All
Tri Forum
Classifieds
Lavender Room
Jobs
The Womens
Print Thread
Reservoir Cat
Jul 2, 09 9:16
Post #26 of 137 (1222 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Kentiger]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
So you are vehemently agreeing with me?
Sluglas
Jul 2, 09 9:21
Post #27 of 137 (1216 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Reservoir Cat]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Quote:
I think most money stays with WTC or to major chain hotels and eateries that triathletes frequent (being a very brand conscious bunch). At IMC, less than 1 mile from the start / finish and along the bike and run course I ate a local restaurant and the server DIDN'T EVEN KNOW it was IM weekend and when we told her it was she seemed "Gee, guess I have to tolerate that crap this weekend. I think they call it a "trickle down" for a reason. It isn't a waterfall.
This is ridiculous. Who do you think works at those chain hotels and eateries? Locals. And they take their salaries and eat/shop at the other places. There is a huge impact of hosting an event like this on the entire local economy. Drive enough of these events out in a place where the economy is all about tourist visits and slowly jobs in the tourist industry get to be a little more scarce. As people move away because they can't find tourist jobs, the non-tourist businesses suffer as well, and slowly start to lay people off as well. Sooner or later, you've lost half the Town.
There's a reason lots of locations pony up lots of cash to attract these kinds of events. Ask the folks in St. George.
Kentiger
Jul 2, 09 9:27
Post #28 of 137 (1205 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Reservoir Cat]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I do RCat..people are idiots by and large. Sadly there aren't enough people out there who care about anyone but themselves to make up for everyone else. This post, and some of the replies, have only served to further solidify my opinion.
support crew
Jul 2, 09 9:27
Post #29 of 137 (1203 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Fleck]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Quote:
That being said having been a around for a few years and having attended many of the big races in the sport in North America over a 20+ year span of time, there has been a decline in the level of civility shown by athletes at races - but this is in keeping with the general decline in civility in our society. So no surprise really.
Still sad and unfortinate though.
Bingo! Civility and entitlement is rampant in general society and triathlon as well. Just because you "pay" for something does not give you the right to be disrespectful. Same goes for both visitors and locals.
I have also noted a gradual change in the nature of the sport going towards this entitlement and elitism. Having been "in" the sport since the 80s and on ST since '03, I would have to say the entitlement attitude has increases in recent years. Many the posts on ST reflect an increasing trend toward the lack of civility as well as a elitism in triahtlon.
Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.
Fleck
Jul 2, 09 9:30
Post #30 of 137 (1192 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [roady]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I go to a lot of bike races though (and have for almost as many years) and I just haven't seen the 'decline in the level of civility'. If anything I actually think it's gotten slightly better due to heightened awareness and the ease of threatening racers via the internet! There's probably less litter and less public urination than there used to be.
I agree. In our local road racing community, I have seen the same thing - an actual
improvement
in things as you have pointed out. However, it's improvements that have come the hard way and at a heavy cost, through lessons learned. Road racing here in Ontario was almost wiped off the map a number of years ago and was right on the brink - few in any communities wanted the races. The reasons were the typical ones - riders being asses, public nudity and urination, etc . . Many key races in great places fell by the way-side and will most likely will never come back on the calendar.
A more civil attitude collectivly on the part of the road racing community has seen a bit of a rebound in the last few years.
Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck
(This post was
edited
by Fleck on Jul 2, 09 9:45)
Sluglas
Jul 2, 09 9:35
Post #31 of 137 (1182 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Sluglas]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
For example, the folks in Branson MO are willing to put up $75,000 to attract a 70.3. You don't think there are places that won't spend a lot more to get a Full IM?
I don't disagree that a lot of locals likely gripe about the impact, but I also think most of them have no idea how fragile the local economy is and how their livelihood depends on these visitors. I used to live in Crested Butte CO and always laughed at how the ski bum kids who worked in the restaurants and ski shops griped about the tourists, not realizing that the only reason they got to live there in the first place was because the tourists spent money there.
Amstel
Jul 2, 09 9:35
Post #32 of 137 (1181 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [support crew]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I don't think this has anything to do with civility. Don't you think there are people in New Orleans who would prefer not to deal with the mess that is Marty Gras? Talk about a week long drunken fiesta complete with fights, throw up everywhere, people peeing all over the place, public nudity, and general poor behavior. Why do you think they tolerate/encourage it? Because they understand simple economics. If Lake Placid wants to complain about a bunch of sober, well behaved athletes coming there to race and train, then I will go spend my money elsewhere.
Fleck
Jul 2, 09 9:38
Post #33 of 137 (1172 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [xtrpickels]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Be humble.
Bingo!
Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck
fishgo
Jul 2, 09 9:54
Post #34 of 137 (1135 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Reservoir Cat]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
"...people can take only so much of walking out their front door to find some delusionally self - important athlete pissing in their yard or the never ending supply of triathlete trash along their road sides. I've heard a lot of similar grumblings from people who live along the IMooo course as well.
Except here in IMMOO-land there has been an escalation of tensions including one or more car windows shot out by frustrated locals. Yep, tensions can run pretty high out on the bike course.
Just Old Again
Jul 2, 09 9:54
Post #35 of 137 (1135 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [support crew]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Would you speculate as to a relationship beween this "entitlement and elitism" and the high level of income usually associated with triathletes (especially IM triathletes)?
-----------------------------------
Ken Lehner
"We are on our last bag of Life" - the wife
bmanners
Jul 2, 09 9:56
Post #36 of 137 (1125 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Fleck]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Bingo !!!!
A little humility (humbleness) goes a long way!
'why cant we all just get along'
Reservoir Cat
Jul 2, 09 9:59
Post #37 of 137 (1113 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Sluglas]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Well as someone who has actually lived in a tourist spot (New Orleans) and waited tables, I can assure you that a full restaurant and a full wallet are not directly related. Arrogant self -important people who are difficult to wait on are also almost uniformly bad tippers - - sometimes you work the hardest for the least return. So, if that weekend weren't an IM weekend - - it would be replaced by some other event or convention and the restuarant employees would be no better or worse off. That is something I actually know quite a bit about. Civility and humility go a long way.
R10C
Jul 2, 09 10:00
Post #38 of 137 (1110 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [xtrpickels]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
You are a local and I am good with that. I used to live on an island in Florida and we all hated the tourists....
Fact is that as someone who has done IMLP since 1999 some of what LP does is pathetic and should be illegal. Custom menus for "Iron Week", I have been there and had one menu one day ($3.99 breakfast) and the next ($6.99 breakfast). Sure there is a supply and demand...but...
Add to that the policy of the Visitors Bearu where we have to pay THEM for a hotel at a rate far higher than the rate posted on the door - and even double the rate during prime ski season...with a five nigt minumum paid far in advance (in full) so that someone can collect some serious intersest on our non-refundable payment.
Dan's post was spot on. There is NOTHING going on in LP at the end of July with out IM just as there is nothing in PCB in Novemeber with out IM. Seems to me that LP is looking this gift hourse in the mouth - and they NEED our money and influx of sales tax dollars. Madison on the other hand...we are a minor blip in their economy.
----------------------------------------------------------
f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
support crew
Jul 2, 09 10:01
Post #39 of 137 (1108 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Amstel]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Quote:
If Lake Placid wants to complain about a bunch of sober, well behaved athletes coming there to race and train, then I will go spend my money elsewhere.
Comparing Mardi Gras to IM is pretty ridiculous. So LP folks should shut up and be grateful triathletes don't do worse?
I don't think it is the well behaved athletes that people complain about. Again, spending "your money" does not give a right to litter, treat people with disrespect, or break driving laws.
That would be an example of entitlement.
Same goes for locals. They need to realize there will be congestion. Bikes are equal right users of the road and do NOT have to move over because "you are in my way". They can't have it both ways either.
Also entitlement
.
Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.
Hot Tamales
Jul 2, 09 10:03
Post #40 of 137 (1097 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Amstel]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
In this economy, a town the size of Lake Placid is going to turn it's back on the single biggest one weekend revenue generator of the year? I don't see that happening. At this point Lake Placid needs Ironman way more than Ironman needs Lake Placid.
Don't kid yourself. Ironman needs LP. Its at the top or 2nd in terms of IM popularity in North America. Its very accessible to everyone in the northeast.
R10C
Jul 2, 09 10:04
Post #41 of 137 (1089 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [support crew]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Heh...there is a reason that LP invited "The Great Outdoor Games" to not come back....Ramada some years ago told me stories about hotel beds being cut in half late at night by drunken "speed chain saws" and multiple wet dogs sleeping in the beds....
----------------------------------------------------------
f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
Sluglas
Jul 2, 09 10:14
Post #42 of 137 (1073 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Reservoir Cat]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Difference b/w New Orleans and LP is that New Orleans is large enough that one event doesn't make a big difference overall. But in a town like LP, you can't just assume that another event will just step in and take IM's place. You may be right, maybe there are tons of other events just chomping at the bit to get into LP, but I think that's a dangerous assumption to make.
I don't excuse asshole triathletes or bad tippers (trust me on that one, 15 years of experience in the service industry), but I do know that a full restaurant of bad tippers is better than an empty restaurant. And in a tourist town, you can't take for granted that you will always be full.
Another local example for me is the town of Silverton, CO. Most tourists in Silverton are a royal PIA and arrive for 4 hours in the middle of the day on the train from Durango wearing their "Colorado" sweatshirts and carry their excess bulk up and down Main Street shopping for tacky Chach-kas. They swamp the town for a few hours, many are rude, and all of the hippie locals gripe about it. But in 2001 the train was shut down because of fire concerns and that business all dried up. The local economy tanked and tons of people lost jobs. Only now is Silverton starting to come back.
I'm just saying be careful what you wish for. The goose may be high-maintenance, but if it lays golden eggs, you may want to be careful about eating it for dinner.
Sluglas
Jul 2, 09 10:16
Post #43 of 137 (1064 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hot Tamales]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Yeah, I'm sure there are no other town's in the Northeast that would take on an Ironman in today's economy. That must be why WTC pays LP a ton of money every year for the privilege of holding a race there.
Oh wait . . . . .
support crew
Jul 2, 09 10:19
Post #44 of 137 (1053 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Just Old]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Quote:
Would you speculate as to a relationship beween this "entitlement and elitism" and the high level of income usually associated with triathletes (especially IM triathletes)?
Ken, I have lots of experience with people from the wealthiest to the poorest. I find people are people no matter the income. Some of the kindest, thoughtful and generous athletes I know have LOTS of money. In fact, I find people with money can afford to be generous.
Some of the nastiest people I know have "bank money", they have a lot of stuff, but its all borrowed money.
No one is ruder than a person who thinks money makes them important
. Blame it on marketing, but unfortunately too many people subscribe to the money = entitlement philosophy these days.
I really don't find the IM athletes (at least the ones I actually meet at races) income levels related to elitism or civility. Some of the nicest guys/girls I have met were very well off. People with class don't disrespect others. You don't need $ to have class.
Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.
Hot Tamales
Jul 2, 09 10:26
Post #45 of 137 (1025 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Sluglas]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
Yeah, I'm sure there are no other town's in the Northeast that would take on an Ironman in today's economy. That must be why WTC pays LP a ton of money every year for the privilege of holding a race there.
Oh wait . . . . .
Not may towns in the NE
CAN
take on a full Ironman. You need a clean body of water to swim at least 1.2 miles in, decent roads in less populated areas, an ample amount of hotels nearby, and a willing population and local officials, .....all in the same place!
That a tall order in the northeast.
Devlin
Jul 2, 09 10:29
Post #46 of 137 (1016 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hot Tamales]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Just a small note: The title of the post is inflammatory and misleading. The article referenced says that some (13) of the local business owners have formed a SUPPORT GROUP, seeking ways to KEEP the race in LP, and how to improve the image.
Most of the discussion has gotten it right, but there are a few that have been canted because of the way the OP worded stuff.
John
Sponsors:
Rudy Project
That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche
Old Scratch
Jul 2, 09 10:30
Post #47 of 137 (1014 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Record10Carbon]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
Fact is that as someone who has done IMLP since 1999 some of what LP does is pathetic and should be illegal. Custom menus for "Iron Week", I have been there and had one menu one day ($3.99 breakfast) and the next ($6.99 breakfast). Sure there is a supply and demand...but...
Gotta make hay while the sun is shining.
Add to that the policy of the Visitors Bearu where we have to pay THEM for a hotel at a rate far higher than the rate posted on the door - and even double the rate during prime ski season...with a five nigt minumum paid far in advance (in full) so that someone can collect some serious intersest on our non-refundable payment.
Free market capitalism.
R10C
Jul 2, 09 10:32
Post #48 of 137 (1009 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [HUB]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Or price gouging....but if I was a local business in LP I sure as heck would jump on the bandwagon. When get get a chance to make cash you squeeze your customer until they bleed...then slightly soften your grip. I just wish they would do it to the skiiers too ;-)
----------------------------------------------------------
f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
cheyou
Jul 2, 09 10:36
Post #49 of 137 (991 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Amstel]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Bikes passing stoped school bus unloading kids is a problem
Peeing in the bushes by the lake.
Not very civil or smart
This 100 runs In 100 days sucks
Old Scratch
Jul 2, 09 10:37
Post #50 of 137 (989 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Record10Carbon]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Yep.
Skiers drink more ,Alot!!!
1
2
3
4
5
6
View All
Print Thread
Are equipment rules important?
What organization's rules do you seek to comply with before you purchase bikes, wetsuits, etc.?
UCI
USA Cycling
UCI/USAC
WTC
USAT
WTC/USAT
ITU
All
None
MAIN
RULES &
LOG
