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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM

 

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xtrpickels

Jul 4, 09 9:20

Post #101 of 137 (1181 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Amstel] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:

On a side note the Peachtree road race was held this morning and finished in my neighborhood. When I walked home after the race I noticed a half eaten bananna on my front porch. Big Fucking deal. Then I realized that I would not be able to get to the Waffle House because the road was closed. Once again big fucking deal. There is trash spead out throughout my midtown neighborhood. It will get cleaned up. I just hope everyone enjoyed themselves and has a safe 4th of July. Oh yeah the Fireworks from downtown will probably also land in my neighborhood. Maybe I will send a letter to the editor.
If you'd like, I can get you a bigger shovel so you can dig that hole a little quicker
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lactate Threshold Testing- Adirondack Medical Center- Lake Placid, NY
PM me if you would like information
www.amccares.org

(This post was edited by xtrpickels on Jul 4, 09 9:20)


cervelorider

Jul 4, 09 10:33

Post #102 of 137 (1167 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hurricane Bob] [In reply to] Can't Post

I am someone who greatly enjoys going to lake Placid for training. I think the various comments in this thread about bikers taking up to much road and littering are over stated. I think the down side of visiting triathletes is very small. The real reality is that tourist towns like Lake Placid can't survive with out tourists. The LPIM crowd is just one of many different groups of folks who cruise through that town and dump lots of money into the local economy. I think this whole thread is a non issue. Tim


longspur

Jul 4, 09 15:04

Post #103 of 137 (1129 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Slowman] [In reply to] Can't Post

   
"....did lake placid not know that triathlons included a cycling leg?"

Like Kentinger, I am surprised by this comment. Maybe somebody else has addressed this (I haven't read all the posts), but what I would like to know is what is meant by "lake placid"? Was there a town vote on allowing Ironman to come there? Were there public forums apprising everyone of what exactly was involved in an M-Dot event? Who all in Lake Placid and the surrounding communities was involved in this decision?

Lake Placid IS a resort town, but at most times the resort-related activities are more tightly-controlled. I have been there in the summer, I have been there in the winter, i have been there as a participant in IMLP '04, and the amount of pressure on Lake Placid by hikers, skiiers, and general lollygaggers cannot even begin to compare to that of the masses that descend for the race.

Life is tough for the average resident from Thursday through Sunday of race week, and if they moved there more than ten years ago I'm not sure that is what they bargained for.

We as triathletes have nothing if we systematically alienate our hosts. Hurricane Bob is 100% correct in everything he says, and the more we act like privileged jerks who are entitled to whatever we want wherever we want it, the more we will face anger and hostility, such as hostile motorists or people who pepper bike courses with roofing nails.


mojozenmaster

Jul 4, 09 15:29

Post #104 of 137 (1113 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hurricane Bob] [In reply to] Can't Post

"Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM"

Really?

If Lake Placid is so "well connected" as you state....run by people who make up the "core businesses" who "run the town" maybe ypu can provide the names of those businesses, so visiting triathletes don't waste their hard earned dollars on ungrateful hosts. The artilcle you link is bullshit. If Lake Placid businesses were truly "weary" of IM, they would identify themselves and have signs outside their shops stating their unwillingness to cater to 'outsiders.'




**all these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted. For assuredly, they had never met before**


Slowman

Jul 4, 09 15:32

Post #105 of 137 (1110 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [syncopated] [In reply to] Can't Post

"Like Kentinger, I am surprised by this comment."

do you, like kentinger, think i'm "defending the assinine[sic] actions of Ironman athletes"? of course i'm not encouraging thoughtless behavior, but the fact that i have to even write this, that's pretty asinine.

regardless of how polite and thoughtful athletes are, athletes block roads, create lines at markets and restaurants, increase vehicular traffic whenever they're on the move to or from a race, a pre-race meeting, a post-race awards ceremony and, the biggie, they keep folks from getting to church on sunday mornings. i've been doing triathlons since the 70s, resort towns have complained about triathlons every time these races have gotten big.

there will always be a push-pull in beautiful resort towns, between those who own motels and restaurants versus residents who seek peace and tranquility. these towns usually decide that the events should stay, because the peace and tranquility crowd grudgingly realize that triathlons are, in fact, not that negatively impactful, and they need to allow the business community some form of tourism, especially during shoulder seasons.

does this mean we shouldn't always encourage our community to be more sensitive to the locals who host us? no. of course we should, and we do. but i've been hearing for 20 years about how we "used" to be a thoughtful group of athletes and then we became littering narcissists. we're no different than we were a generation ago, it's just that as races get big, the number of littering narcissists increases. our problem in lake placid is not behavior, it's mathematics.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman


devashish_paul

Jul 4, 09 21:04

Post #106 of 137 (1008 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Slowman] [In reply to] Can't Post

I've done IMLP in 9 or the last 10 years. I'm heading there in a few weeks for number 10. I've gone to Lake Placid to train or race between XC skiing and triathlon in the order of 50 times in the past 10 years so I have a good historical perspective of how the event and town and have grown around it. I also put on an informal training camp that has grown from 3 to 10 to 60+ over the years, so I can see how "we" get in the way of the locals.

Here is my view of the situation

The roads are in disrepair (but fortunately getting better). When the roads were in good shape with a wide shoulder and there were only around 1000 athletes in the race, WE were less of an intrustion in the town. Fast forward 10 years, multiply the numbers by 2.5, with roads in disrepair and you have athletes every week riding and training riding in the middle of the road to avoid some man size craters....in others words there are more of us out there training getting in the way of more residents.

Triathlon is unique in that we practice our sport (or at least a third of it) in public facilities. Skiers, sledders, skaters....they are all doing their sports in dedicated facilities, so the locals, in general love the dollars they bring in, as they barely inconvenience anyone. Triathletes on the other hand are on public roads getting in the way of a local person trying to get to the grocery store or get home from work quickly to take his kid to soccer or hockey practice. Also keep in mind that there are three types of locals:
  1. those that work in businesses that make money off the ironman
  2. those that work in businesses that don't make money directly off ironman
  3. those who are independently wealthy and see the Ironman as an inconvenience (they could care less if $$$ come into the community)

You'll get complaints from those in group 3 cause they don't want to be disturbed, and you'll get complaints from some in group 2 who can't see the forest from the trees. But you know, if we athletes behave ourselves a bit on the roads, and if they do actually pave some of those shoulders, then 95% of the problem goes away (and no, I am not going to ride at the far right of the road in cracks that suck up entire wheels).

As for Fleck and others saying "back in the day".....I think you guys are just pathetic and showing your age. Every generation says that they "did it better" than the ones that came after and "every generation blames the one before"....get real guys.

This entire "situation at LP" is blown somewhat out of proportion. The town wants the race and there are few (see group 1,2,3) that complain and we're giving them way too much air time. Let's just give our business to the ones that want it, and steer clear of the complainers

....but at the same time, I do support any athlete who does come to train in Lake Placid and has to take to the road (vs shoulder) to avoid cracks. If these guys want to host a race on a course with huge cracks, they will have to expect to deal with athletes avoiding them in training. Just like hosting spring break and dealing with drunk college kids.

www.kuotanorthamerica.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010


thetodd

Jul 5, 09 3:32

Post #107 of 137 (977 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hurricane Bob] [In reply to] Can't Post

I've lived in 4 different resort towns, two of them ski towns and two beach towns. Most of the locals realize that their bread is buttered with tourism $$$, what they tend to have a problem with is the overabundance of disrespect the visitors have for their town, the sense of entitlement tourons have that "I paid my money I'll do what I want". I guess they either don't realize or just don't care that people actually live there. I'm dealing with it as we speak in a small Sth. Jersey beach town, c'mon September.

___________________________________________________
People say crazy shit during sex. One time I called this girl "Mom." - Randal Graves


cheyou

Jul 5, 09 7:26

Post #108 of 137 (925 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [thetodd] [In reply to] Can't Post

"I'm dealing with it as we speak in a small Sth. Jersey beach town, c'mon September. "

same on the St Lawrence river . fall can't come soon enough . Yes we need them but . How can I miss you when you wont go away

Thom


Reach the Beach leg 8,20,32


FLA Jill

Jul 5, 09 8:17

Post #109 of 137 (904 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [thetodd] [In reply to] Can't Post

Fortunately here the southern K-12 schools start to go back in early to mid August so that by about August 15, the touristas start to get down to manageable levels.

The sense of entitlement turns deadly here on a pretty sadly regular basis. "I paid money for a beach vacation, so I'm going to swim in the Gulf and verbally berate the lifeguards who try to tell me to get out on red flag days." yields a lot of drownings here every year, and about 95% of those are tourists.


xtrpickels

Jul 5, 09 8:58

Post #110 of 137 (880 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Can't Post

excellent points from Dev.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lactate Threshold Testing- Adirondack Medical Center- Lake Placid, NY
PM me if you would like information
www.amccares.org


tringhard

Jul 5, 09 9:15

Post #111 of 137 (866 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [xtrpickels] [In reply to] Can't Post

My favorite IMLP rip off is not the menus but the

5 Night Minimum stay...

Also, The Golden Arrow is a total PITA to deal with for a refund even after they have re- rented the room they still keep the deposit despite no loss of income.

IMLP = annual Gouge fest for local business.

That is the reason I will never do this race agin. There are many other races to do.

I am not commenting on litter or quality of roads but the Golden Arrow Is a PITA!


Mark Lemmon

Jul 5, 09 15:47

Post #112 of 137 (796 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Slowman] [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought about this thread today as I helped clean up in and around the transition after the HFP race at Caesar Creek. I also did some extra miles on the run course and was picking up gel packets all along the course.


I think there may be more litter at race sites than there used to be 20 years ago. Part of it, of course, is greater numbers, but I also think there is more tri-specific stuff to litter than there used to be. There were no gels 20 years ago or energy bars or sports beans. People ate bananas and oranges and licorice. They usually didn't come with wrappers. If you don't pick up a banana or an orange, they degrade or some animal will eat them, unlike a gel packet. There weren't disposable bottles of water either. You got cycling specific water bottles and that was something you would tend to keep.

There are also the adhesive strips on the numbers. People tend to take those off and throw them on the ground.

As far as the narcissism, in the 80s it was more about showing off your body, i.e. skimpy neon Speedos, leopard skin print trisuits, dark tans and large sunglasses. These days, it's more about showing off the M dot and how much $$ you spent on your racing stuff.


xtrpickels

Jul 5, 09 18:54

Post #113 of 137 (711 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [tringhard] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
I am not commenting on litter or quality of roads but the Golden Arrow Is a PITA!
Ironically, the Golden Arrow has placed garbage bins on river road for athletes to deposit their garbage instead of carrying with with them. I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with them. The owners have been admirable contributors to Lake Placid and the region.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lactate Threshold Testing- Adirondack Medical Center- Lake Placid, NY
PM me if you would like information
www.amccares.org


Fleck

Jul 5, 09 19:13

Post #114 of 137 (691 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Can't Post

As for Fleck and others saying "back in the day".....I think you guys are just pathetic and showing your age. Every generation says that they "did it better" than the ones that came after and "every generation blames the one before"....get real guys.

Gee, Dev. Thanks for dumping 25+ years of experience in the trash can. I don't live in the past. I live in the present. I agree with Dan that it's not so much a triathlete or a Lake Placid thing but a numbers thing. Take any group of 5,000 and you are bound to find 10% or so that are complete and total idiots. That's what the problem is - but we have that same problem just about everywhere, in everything that we do. It's not unique to Lake Placid.


Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck


devashish_paul

Jul 5, 09 19:21

Post #115 of 137 (681 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Fleck] [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, but you keep making points how it used to be better "back in the day". Seriously, the percent of jerks on the athlete/motorist/community sides remains pretty well constant between decades, between cities, between towns and countries. Its not like one generation has more or less respect than the previous one or the next one.....people just look at the past with rose coloured glasses and forget about all the crap that used to go on.

Trick question.....Do you think kids in highschool have "less respect" than the 80's, 70's or 60's?

www.kuotanorthamerica.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010

(This post was edited by devashish_paul on Jul 5, 09 19:21)


firemedic

Jul 5, 09 22:28

Post #116 of 137 (626 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [xtrpickels] [In reply to] Can't Post

I see myself as a transplanted partial local. My family is from the southwestern Adirondacks, and although I didn't grow up there, I know the people well. First of all, the industry up there was once all logging and farming and dairies, etc. and now times are extremely tough, especially in the last decade. Places I used to go as a child are closed up and falling apart, and people I knew have left for hopefully greener pastures. People, by in large, enjoy a slower more simple pace of life, where people are naturally a little nicer, and don't hesitate to say "good morning". I've lived on Long Island most of my life, so believe me, I see the differences. For starters, Adirondack tourism largely encompasses people who want life to slow down, snowmobilers, hunters, timbersportsmen, and people who just want some clean air. Triathletes aren't there for that, which I get, but why not enjoy the opportunity to let life slow down, without your training pace slowing down. How hard is it for people to ride single file (double file at absolute worst), to train with an extra pouch on the bike for garbage, to carry a little pouch while running for the same.

When I started triathlons as a teenager in the mid 90's, there was a great deal of comraderie, friendly talk, and often not even about triathlons. After an 8 year hiatus, I rejoined the sport, and now I see ego's running rampant, even among local elite age groupers, and even those not so elite. It's about what gear they own, or how much transition space they need, etc. I don't know the root of this, it could be triathlon shop teams/clubs, it could be the shift in the economic status of the competitor due to skyrocketing costs, or it could be that with so much texting, etc. we've just forgotten how to be congenial with other folks face-to-face. I find myself, as a civil servant with a fixed lower income, unable to afford multiple bike setups and so on, grossly out of place at many events, without people to sit and BS with as we stretch. I find race directors have gouged the costs of the events to ridiculous levels, so as to lessen the events people can compete in, with no sympathy for those who can't afford it, or those who work schedules don't gel with their packet pickup schedules. All-in-all, I see triathlon as a community, while it has grown in size, it has also withered in character. I don't blame the people of Lake Placid one bit; it's their town, and the triathletes are visiting. And $6.99 for what is essentially a home cooked breakfast? Come to NYC and see if you can get a halfway decent homecooked breakfast there for that cost. You paid at least $2500 for your bike probably, the $10 including tax and tip for breakfast won't kill you. If you're a guest somewhere, you act like one, not a boor. I also don't blame people for reminscing about the past, for the future is nonexistent without the past. If you don't know where you've been, how do you know where you're going? I think the situation in Lake Placid is a microcosm of the triathlon world as a whole. As athletes, we shouldn't forget how wonderful it is that these communities host us and let us close roads, etc. (yes, at a monetary cost). A little humility and graciousness goes a long way. Or have we forgotten the golden rule of "Treat others as you would like to be treated". Being a triathlete doesn't excuse you from it.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...


KonaShelley

Jul 6, 09 5:53

Post #117 of 137 (570 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Mark Lemmon] [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.petracycles.co.uk/images/HKB201.jpg

Here is an alternative to all those gel paks. I've been using one of these containers lately and they are perfect. Re-usable, re-fillable, can fit into any jersey pocket and it has a bite valve on it, so NO MESS.

Love these things!
-----------------
http://www.konashelley.blogspot.com


Ultra-tri-guy

Jul 6, 09 6:01

Post #118 of 137 (560 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [firemedic] [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To:
When I started triathlons as a teenager in the mid 90's, there was a great deal of comraderie, friendly talk, and often not even about triathlons. After an 8 year hiatus, I rejoined the sport, and now I see ego's running rampant, even among local elite age groupers, and even those not so elite. It's about what gear they own, or how much transition space they need, etc. I don't know the root of this, it could be triathlon shop teams/clubs, it could be the shift in the economic status of the competitor due to skyrocketing costs, or it could be that with so much texting, etc. we've just forgotten how to be congenial with other folks face-to-face. I find myself, as a civil servant with a fixed lower income, unable to afford multiple bike setups and so on, grossly out of place at many events, without people to sit and BS with as we stretch. I find race directors have gouged the costs of the events to ridiculous levels, so as to lessen the events people can compete in, with no sympathy for those who can't afford it, or those who work schedules don't gel with their packet pickup schedules. All-in-all, I see triathlon as a community, while it has grown in size, it has also withered in character.

Excellent!!! I couldn't agree more and I may just bump this post every week.


Skoorb

Jul 6, 09 6:09

Post #119 of 137 (551 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hurricane Bob] [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Don't drop wrappers, bottles, or spare tubes. Don't ride in front of cars double-file, and give them attitude when they want to go past - just move over already, and wave thanks for their patience.
How dare you. People have trained long and hard to earn the right to drop wrappers and garbage on the side of the road and block traffic so that cars' drivers can be in constant reverence of their awesome and super-elite fitness!

I will say, I once wanted a nice cottage/mountain vacation and went to Gatlinburg/pigeon forge with my wife in Tennessee. The place is an absolute fvcking monstrosity and should be fuel air bombed in its entirety. I really do hope that the Adirondacks never fall into the same kind of touristy-whore-hell that that place has become.


placidplanet

Jul 6, 09 11:54

Post #120 of 137 (480 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Hurricane Bob] [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you Bob for bringing this to everyones attention.
As a business owner in Lake Placid, I would like to clarify one point on the topic of “Lake Placid Businesses Grow Tired of IM”. It is actually not the local businesses that are tired of IM. To the contrary, we love IM and I assure everyone we “get it”.
This issue has arisen because a very small, but very vocal, group of local people have been complaining about IM. For the most part these people are not influential in our community (many complain about everything) and up to this point, business owners had chosen to ignore them. This spring their complaining gained some traction and that is why some of us started a local campaign to speak up about how important IM is to our local economy.
The central issue is not littering or people with their pants down, it is cyclists blocking the flow of traffic. We know the roads are terrible in places, but when you can, please move over.
We are thankful for each and every person who comes here to visit. Thank you and we hope to see you on the course, now and for many years to come.
Kenny Boettger
Placid Planet Bicycles


snotrocket

Jul 6, 09 12:16

Post #121 of 137 (456 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [placidplanet] [In reply to] Can't Post

I had never been to Lake Placid until IMLP two years ago. My husband was already in love with the area as he grew up going to a boy scout camp about an hour from LP. Now my husband and I check the real estate listings there constantly and are looking to buy a place there so we can have it to take our kids to and our plan is to eventually retire there. I would think that has to in some way be good for the local economy. We would have never felt that way (and I likely never would have gone to the Adirondacks) had it not been for IMLP.

I hope there is a remedy for the traffic situation. I hope to one day be a local resident either taking part in the IM or volunteering.


Millco

Jul 6, 09 13:36

Post #122 of 137 (411 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [Amstel] [In reply to] Can't Post

 "I am sorry to complicate things. Let me simplify it for you...

Detroits economy is based on automobile manufacturing.
Lake Placids economy is based on tourism - mostly sports and outdoor recreation.

When you take away the main economic engine of a town it tends to go into decline. Each of the towns I mentioned rely on their respective economic drivers for their source of revenue. If Lake Placid decides that picking up GU rappers a couple times a year is more trouble than it's worth then they will forfeit their $6 million annual windfall. I don't really care either way. "

You dont have get all snippy! :) My point was I thought LP was a get away resort type area, and the people there wanted it to return to that way.


Chris G

Jul 6, 09 14:17

Post #123 of 137 (386 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Can't Post

Dev,

You always ride in the middle of the road. Putting that aside it is really hard to imagine a better behaved group than IM folks. Being anal and annoying are not unique traits to IM people, plenty of those at Whiteface all winter. They have snowboard events in the middle of downtown at night in the winter, think there are some empty beer bottles/garbage/noise from that? As a former resort town person I think my biggest complaint about IM people would be that they did not drink nearly enough to inflate their dinner bill/bar tab and my tip accordingly. Who wants a town full of non drinkers who eat healthy and go to bed early? Luckily people like ML, Chip and I are able to give the locals a "better" impression of us as a group.

Are people really intentionally throwing garbage on the ground? If so maybe we can get a "this road maintained by slowtwitching trigeeks" sign working on river road. Willing to bet most of the litter along the roads does not come from people on bikes. As someone who has cleaned up the garbage on the side of a road before, I have found many perplexing things but never a gel wrapper.


firemedic

Jul 6, 09 16:48

Post #124 of 137 (335 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [placidplanet] [In reply to] Can't Post

Kenny, I imagine you love the IM people, since as a bike shop owner, you probably make a very fair amount of money on the race, and I'm sure on the mountain biking in the area also. As someone from family down on the Rte 12 & 28 side of the 'Dacks, I guess my view is slightly different. Here's the thing though - 3 wide on bicycles is not a phenomenon only up there, we get that down here (NYC area) on high speed, heavily trafficked roadways too. The fact that there's only 1 lane in each direction is what makes it a real problem, and that people don't thin out to allow car/truck traffic by. I think what it goes to is what I posted about earlier. Athletes in general, and in my opinion, more notably in triathletes, we have lost the ability to have manners, be cordial, and even friendly. I think this is a problem bred by the huge boom of the sport in such a short time, as well as the obvious parallels we see in society at large. There is a sense of entitlement, rather than privilege, and the idea of humility and graciousness have gone right out the window. I'm sure not every business in LP fairs quite so well from the IM, as you are quite directly involved in the services needed by racers, I'm sure the local True Value doesn't see the same windfall. The point being is, if the triathletes and their families, as a whole, since all we can do is generalize the situation, are to start behaving with better manners, like saying good morning and thank you, for starters, I think that would make a huge difference. Thank you is such an easy thing to say, but there are so many people who forget to say it. As I said before, just because you're a guest somewhere doesn't mean you get to start acting like everyone should wait on you hand and foot. Is this most likely a small, disgruntled group? Yes. However, we, as triathletes, should take note that we need to make an effort to be gracious to our hosts and treat them the same way we want them to treat us.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way...


jime

Jul 6, 09 17:33

Post #125 of 137 (320 views)
Re: Lake Placid Businesses Growing Weary of IM [devashish_paul] [In reply to] Can't Post

"Back in the day" You could beat the crap out of someone and not get sued. You can't even push anybody today without F. Lee Bailey threatening a lawsuit.

It was better "Back in the day".

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