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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Manhattan Project

Leng

Mar 23, 04 12:12

Post #1 of 18 (596 views)

Manhattan Project	Can't Post

Hi Guys,

Any comments on the Manhattan Project bike from Airborne ????

Tks

Luiz
Luiz Eng

Tom Demerly

Mar 23, 04 12:25

Post #2 of 18 (580 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Based on my experience with titanium bikes we sell Litespeed and Guru as well as QR.

It takes a certain amount of money to make a titanium bike correctly, and some manufacturers won't even toucvh the material since there are things about it they don't like.

A well made titanium bike is expensive to make, there is no way around that. I would much rather have a fine aluminum bike than a titanium bike other than Litespeed or Guru or QR.

We've looked at a lot of titanium bikes- and before we sell anything, first we have BUY it. Selling me a bike is not easy. I am fussy and particular. That is why we sell Guru, Litespeed and QR for titanium.

Kentiger

Mar 23, 04 12:30

Post #3 of 18 (563 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Very well crafted answer Tom. Says what needs to be said without saying it. What can you say about Airborne without being politically correct though?

Tom Demerly

Mar 23, 04 12:35

Post #4 of 18 (545 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Kentiger] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I can verify that Airborne is a bicycle company engaged in the manufacture of titanium bicycles intended for use in a recreational/sporting environment.

Wolfwood

Mar 23, 04 12:35

Post #5 of 18 (545 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Take a look at Habanero if you're looking for a low cost titanium. I've heard many good reviews and the prices are hard to ignore. You can do a search on google groups and there are many user reviews. It's kind of a no-nonsense frame and since they don't do any advertising, I think that lowers the cost a lot. The website is http://www.habcycles.com.

Kentiger

Mar 23, 04 12:39

Post #6 of 18 (529 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Damn you're good...slick answer. You're not trying to avoid lawsuits or something are you Tom? And what about Habanero cycles? Any thoughts on them?

Tom Demerly

Mar 23, 04 12:44

Post #7 of 18 (508 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Kentiger] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have no information on Habanero bicycles and am not familiar with their products at this time.

Leng

Mar 23, 04 12:44

Post #8 of 18 (506 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Wolfwood] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I asked about the Manhattan because a lot of people here is amazed about this bike ...

Since in Brasil we don�t get a full range of bikes, we have what the dealers wants us to have it....

I did check this bike personaly and It seems to be very well made it... so I went to the roadbikereview.com and I didn�t find any bad comments about the bike... but certanly this bike is not popular among triathletes... and since Tri bikes are not a option for me ...( no particular reason... I like roadies... ) ... I still look for the perfect Road bike...

tks
Luiz Eng

puskas

Mar 23, 04 12:51

Post #9 of 18 (486 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Our local retailer began carrying them this past year.

Initial feedback from teammates who ride them is VERY positive.

We don't have anyone riding the Manhattan Project, but we do have riders on Road, CCX, and MTBs. All comments are similary..."Excellent ride, long top-tubes so fit takes some time, FANTASTIC value, light and appropriately stiff."

Don't be scared off by the "only ABR knows how to work Ti..." There are definitely "levels" of quality (nobody would dispute that Moots hasthe finest welds, ABR runs in the next tier (of which I think Airborne compares), and then there are a bunch of others who still make acceptable Ti which will still last a lifetime.

With that said, don't be fooled into thinking the Manhattan Project will be "wickedly aero..." Simply put, the "tail cone" and other gadgety is just marketing and probably doesn't improve your aerodynamics. Fortunately, it's your body position and comfort which will make the biggest difference in your success over the long haul so I wouldn't get too caught up in "aero tubes." If the bike fits and you have outstanding race wheels, you'll be close enough.

Cheers,

Puskas
www.tridiver.blogspot.com
http://www.ironheadsmultisport.com/

ashayk

Mar 23, 04 13:26

Post #10 of 18 (450 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The only Ti road bike(I'm pretty sure) that is on EFBE's (www.efbe.de) pass list is made by the Swedish company Magmaa. Cervelo makes quite a big deal of passing the EFBE stress tests. Here is a quote from Cervelo as regarding the R2.5:

And while the results on the road have been impressive, the real accomplishments were made in the test lab. The R2.5 is the first frame in its weight category to obtain the coveted EFBe certification. This means that the frame has survived what is arguably the toughest fatigue test in the bike industry. In fact, the R2.5 has survived it twice, because when EFBe couldn't break the frame in the first 100,000 cycles we asked them to run another 100,000 cycles. The frame still wouldn't budge. Keep in mind that most manufacturers do not dare send their frames to EFBe, and of all the frames that are sent, roughly 2/3rds do not even make it through the first 100,000 cycles.

The Magmaa frame actually gets a higher(the highest) EFBE rating, though it is a 1/2 pound heavier than the R2.5. Since EFBE doesn't publish the names of manufacturers that failed the test, one is left to guess at whether the other brands mentioned(ABG, Moots, Airborne,...) have submitted frames for testing and how well they would do.

Still it's nice to know what does pass.

In the interest of full disclosure, I will say I'm the proud owner of a Magmaa frame I'm now building up :).

grant salter

Mar 23, 04 19:25

Post #11 of 18 (347 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If you are looking for a Ti bike the only one worth selling would be a Serotta. Anyone can build a Ti bike but it takes a company like Serotta to do it right. That is the honest to god truth.

ashayk

Mar 23, 04 21:25

Post #12 of 18 (326 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [grant salter] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Right... I agree it takes a company LIKE Serotta, but you can't be saying they're the ONLY company that can build a quality Ti bike, right?

(This post was edited by ashayk on Mar 23, 04 21:26)

Leng

Mar 24, 04 4:50

Post #13 of 18 (277 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [puskas] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Puskas ,

I agree pretty much with you...

All,

Thanks for the comments...
Luiz Eng

grant salter

Mar 24, 04 5:50

Post #14 of 18 (243 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [ashayk] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Maybe I was a little harsh. But they are really the only company that truly builds a custom bike of that magnitude!

cerveloguy

Mar 24, 04 6:13

Post #15 of 18 (228 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [ashayk] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"most manufacturers do not dare send their frames to EFBe, and of all the frames that are sent, roughly 2/3rds do not even make it through the first 100,000 cycles."

Very interesting info. I was unaware of this testing. Thanks for posting it.

bermudabill

Mar 24, 04 9:42

Post #16 of 18 (163 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [Leng] [In reply to]	Can't Post

i ride the airborne X1, (TT geom). i test rode several of their bikes. they ride great. my road bike is made by litespeed. there's a difference, but it's not a big difference. if the budget says airborne is what you can afford then buy it, you're getting a good deal on a good bike.

______________________________________
"Competetive sport begins where healthy sport ends"

ashayk

Mar 24, 04 11:37

Post #17 of 18 (118 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [cerveloguy] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Glad you got something out of it. It's fun to see objective testing in the bike biz for a change. Also surprising to see how certiain companies do. Cervelo advertises their EFBE ratings, but I was surprised to see how well Specialized and Cannondale, even their mountain bikes, do too.

ashayk

Mar 24, 04 11:41

Post #18 of 18 (114 views)

Re: Manhattan Project [grant salter] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yeah, their custom thing is probably hard to beat, but I'm pretty sure Tom Kellog, Spectrum Cycles, builds a phenomenol custom Ti bike as does Moots, Seven, and Independent Fabrications. Of course it's moot, because all of those are WAY out of my price range :p.