Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum: New Ironman Pro Membership: Page 6

Bike Shops Coaches Fitters Race Calendar NEW Running Stores Stack & Reach Training Log Triathlon Clubs
		MAIN INDEX	RULES & LEGEND	LOG IN

Search for (options)

Newsletter Signup

Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
New Ironman Pro Membership

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

View All

kristenp

Nov 7, 09 20:15

Post #126 of 238 (1470 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Agree 100%

and one big reason why we don't get the 150 in a room to talk is because you'd get the JR's who will just tell everyone they suck!

just kidding Jordan... well not really but all in good fun!
.......................................................
Kristen Peterson
Pro Triathlete
www.KristenPeterson.com

devashish_paul

Nov 7, 09 20:23

Post #127 of 238 (1463 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [kristenp] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Or maybe you need one of the agents of some Tier "1.5" pros, who has some semblance of a business mind and has the ablity to manoevre through the political mindfield to uplift your collective fate.

Guess what, the best man for this job is non other than Les MacDonald, with his former union training... .seriously, I'm not kidding. You guys want to get organized and get better and fairer treatment, I can't think of a better guy. You might not like him and you might not like his tactics, but you don't need to.

I bet you can get a few lawyers here on ST that do union work and understand the sport to actually do a fine job. You don't actually need a pro triathlete, you just need someone to herd all you "cats" and present your collective views and push hard on the WTC.

Dev

Fleck

Nov 7, 09 20:36

Post #128 of 238 (1450 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I bet you can get a few lawyers here on ST that do union work and understand the sport to actually do a fine job.

Dev,

I think the word "union" scares a lot of people. That might be going too far amd perhaps too advanced for this. I think what is or was needed at the very least was some open communication and dialog between the WTC and the athletes. As far as I can tell( please, anyone, correct me if I am wrong about this), there was none. The WTC has come up with some new guidelines for the Pros, and launched it with a press-realease at 5:00pm on a Friday afternoon( interesting timing!!)

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

R10C

Nov 7, 09 20:36

Post #129 of 238 (1450 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [devashish_paul] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Fleck

Nov 8, 09 4:41

Post #130 of 238 (1371 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Record10Carbon] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think it would take a few years. WTC makes more money selling their logo to folks than the do with races...what the hell do they care if a few folks - fast or slow do not arrive? No matter what they can sell 2600 entries in about 20 minutes (or less) 367 days in advance with no refunds.

Chip,

Good point.

Here's another that I don't think has been mentioned.

For almost it's entire history the WTC has been able to operate without any competition. They have defined what big event triathlons are all about. They have attracted many new people to the sport of triathlon. For the first time, they now have what seems to be some legitimate competition with the Challenge events and the Rev3.

In terms of the Pros, perhaps this move by the WTC is meant to rope in the Pros, or a core group of Pros, so they don't stray to these other events. Or viewed another way, the new policy may drive more than a few away. Who knows??

The only other time that this has really happened in the sport was back in the 80's when IMH thought that it was so important and prestigious that it did not need to offer Prize money. The Nice race had moved their race date into direct conflict with IMH. The Pros of the day, all turned their back on IMH. Sure enough IMH found a prize purse. So Pros reading this, if you think you can't bring change, by either getting organized or voting with your feet, think again. Of course the Irony of all this, now is that the Nice race is now an Ironman race, so perhaps they were right all along! :)

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

(This post was edited by Fleck on Nov 8, 09 5:21)

devashish_paul

Nov 8, 09 4:49

Post #131 of 238 (1361 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Fleck] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can just call it "player's association". While the word union might scare a few, and I am alway in favour of free market supply and demand of labour and goods, in the case where the employer is a monopoly as in the case of single mine or mill towns, unions, on the balance have done good for the plight of the common worker so they are exploited less by the monopolistic employer and have fair wages and working conditions.

Dev

www.kestrelbicycles.com |www.infinitnutrition.ca | www.nineteenwetsuits.com
Free camps: Whiteface Hill Climb + Epicman Lake Placid 3k/180k/21k June 10/11 2010

crmartin9

Nov 8, 09 5:46

Post #132 of 238 (1336 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Mito Chondria] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is now way off topic, but I don't understand your argument about university education. The whole reason why I was able to go to college in the first place is because I got federal government-subsidized loans. Seems to me the government stepping in was a good thing for me.

I'm not advocating regulation of the triathlon market. Who on earth is going to do and do it fairly in the interest of all parties? USAT can't even send out a membership card without screwing it up for crying out loud! I just wish there were more race directors out there that would remember why they started running races in the first place (such as create something fun to showcase their community) in lieu of pure profit maximization. As a consumer it's pretty easy to recognize which organizations out there are now in it primarily for the money and which ones have figured out how to balance the seemingly two conflicting goals (KJ, Jeff Henderson, etc).

I personally think you're being a little too optimistic arguing prices will come down, but I certainly hope to be proven wrong.

Chris

alanhawse

Nov 8, 09 6:43

Post #133 of 238 (1296 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [ShawnF] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This thread might be more interesting if you had to be a "pro" to submit reply's. Maybe you can get a PRO slowtwitch card by sending Slowman 75$. Then you will submit to random ??? screens. This would help sort out the pretender posts from the pro ones.

pjevoe

Nov 8, 09 7:26

Post #134 of 238 (1278 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [crmartin9] [In reply to]	Can't Post

All right now,

Let's move beyond the issue of who is, who is not, who deserves to be, who doesn't deserve to be a pro, and who does or does not add value to the sport. Yes, an extra $750 out of my pocket each year is tough to swallow, but I'm going to pay it because it's required of my job for next year (like was stated earlier about bike fees and airlines). Yes, start lists may get bigger, but its each of our jobs to beat as many of the people at the start line as we can, regardless of the person's classification or intent. So in that regard, my job description doesn't change. The biggest issue with this announcement, as I see it, and the least discussed in this thread is the drug testing (or lack thereof) announced with the pro membership. From my perspective, the clowns using performance enhancing drugs steal more than $750 from me in prize money each year....and yes, in my book they are stealing.

It's a plague in the sport and does more damage to many of the clean guys' and gals' earnings each year than entry fees. From the HGH monsters with cro-magnon man jaws, brows, and knuckles, to the new fad of everyone coming down with "sports induced asthma" and huffing down 5-15 puffs from an inhaler before swim starts, it's time for the sport to crack down. Ironman has done almost NOTHING to ensure a clean and fair playing field because it COSTS MONEY. Most agegroupers assume there is drug testing at Ironman races. Well, here it is folks "there is none most of the time, and a urine test every once in a blue moon for one or two competitors!!!" When I first turned professional a few years ago, I looked at the sport through rose colored glasses thinking there was almost no drug use, everyone was clean and racing on his or her natural talent and hard work in training. I remember the day it all changed. I went for a 5 hour easy bike ride with a Euorpean physician who his job is to catch dopers. Over that 5 hour conversation, he opened up my eyes to what's really going on, how they do it, how they get away with it, even who is or has used but without proper testing they can't prove (on a side note, according to this source, the dirtiest sport out there is nortic skiing...just to toss that out there). In my book this is a MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger problem than a really fast attorney who gets his pro license to sign up late for an Ironman and write off his bike and race travel expenses from his taxes. I'm happy with the fastest people on the day winning the prize money as long as they are clean.

I am pasting an excerpt from my blog posting about the my opinions on the (lack of) drug testing aspect of this new program. I'm sorry for those who think the pro field is clean. I think the majority of pros in this sport are clean and have a high moral standard, but there are a lot more unsavory pin-cushions out there than many of you want to believe:

"- The final and MOST important (as I see it) rule change is around the new drug testing WTC announced with these changes. I think more drug testing is WONDERFUL and LONG LONG LONG overdue. Many age groupers in this sport want to believe that drug use does not occur in this sport. I hate to break it to people, but performance enhancing drugs are FAR more prevalent in this sport than you want to believe. The fact of the matter is that WTC and Ironman have LITTLE TO NO drug testing for professionals whatsoever. NONE. And the little testing that does take place is "in-competition" urine tests. No blood tests, no out-of-competition, nothing. It's up to the individual country's anti-doping agencies to test its athletes. So for Ironman it just doesn't happen on the level that is required to ensure a clean and level playing field for professionals. I think it�s happening a lot in this sport. It was always up to the race to test for drugs if WADA (World Ant-Doping Agency) hadn't selected the race for random testing. Drug testing is far from cheap. It costs tens of thousands of dollars to do it properly and thoroughly for more than a couple athletes. What's the incentive for a race director to test when it cuts into his profits? Keep in mind it�s a business and about money. So until now, there has been almost no testing at all in the sport of Ironman triathlon. This is widely known among professionals. Those with lack of integrity, morals, and values do not have as many barriers in this sport as in others to drug use.

- I love the idea of mandatory testing at racing and OUT OF COMPETITION testing. Many performance enhancing drugs can be taken out of competition during training that will help the athlete months and months later, but not be detectable on race day (do some reading on HGH - human growth hormone sometime). So until there is comprehensive testing in and out of competition, anything else will be just for show. I hope dearly in my heart that the new drug testing is widespread and they start catching a bunch of these muppets, gumbies, and clowns using performance enhancing drugs. But again, when profits are the motive, where's the incentive to use our $750 membership fees to launch a multi-hundred thousand dollar drug testing program. The incentive to test at a level needed to clean up the sport just isn't there. Very very sad. So I hope that Ironman will do the right thing here and not the profitable thing.

- Last point on the drug testing program and policy (which was not drawn out in WTC�s announcement as clearly as the prize money limits...something I would think should be announced with stated definitions and plans). An athlete is not subject to this new program until he pays his $750 fee for his license. There is NOTHING stopping someone from getting his license late in the year right before the race to avoid being part of the testing program. Example (made up, not talking about anyone in particular): European pro triathlete X has bad intentions and wants to use drugs. The Ironman Event Y in July or August next year is his "A" event to qualify for Kona and then take a shot at Kona. There are plenty of non-Ironman races with money, especially in Europe so this athlete X can train and race all winter, spring, and summer outside of this new drug program. He can race plenty to make money outside of Ironman until his qualification race in July/August. He tucks himself away in the mountains of European country Z and drugs up for half the year and gets all of the training benefit. Before his race, he pays his $750 fee and signs up for his race. He is now "testable" by Ironman's new program but he has already gotten the benefits of his drug use and probably won�t test positive (even if he got tested under the new program). This is complete bologna. I guarantee this will happen. The well intentioned athletes such as myself will get our $750 licenses in December-February as we start planning our next season. The slimy ones will instantly see this loop-hole on how to fly under the radar to drug-up until race time. Last year's Kona Top-10 finishers don't need to qualify for Kona. So if again, that person doesn't have to buy his/her license until later in the year, they will not be part of this drug testing program. I could quickly and easily draw up a race schedule where someone wouldn�t race a WTC event until September and make plenty of prize money.

I sincerely hope that the testing becomes more widespread. It's what the sport needs. But I have serious doubts in the potential flaws in the program. Quality, comprehensive in and out-of competition testing costs a lot of money. When the race's profit is the only concern, I just don't see any new drug program becoming what it needs to be."

Let's get the real muppet-heads out of the pro field, the druggies.

Pat
www.patrickevoe.com

Rappstar

Nov 8, 09 7:45

Post #135 of 238 (1260 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [race100] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

J.R

You should be kind to people on your way up because they are the same people you will meet on your way down....

Why do you think I am "mean"? I just have a strong opinion. Now it may be unpopular with some people, but as I've said, I fault the situation, not the individual. Anyway, that issue is really moot. As has been said, the main issue is the number of races. And, of course, what this membership really means. What do you get for $750? And who gets it?

I've said this many times before on the USAT pro email list - if we are going to start asking FOR things, we need to provide a demonstrable value FIRST. If there is a demonstrable value, it is probably with regards to the 70.3 races, since of the 40 or so of those, many(? most?) do not fill up, unlike the IMs. But I think that has been shown as well by WTC - 70.3 prize purses from WTC were raised last year to $30,000 (from 25,000). And IM prize purses were lowered to $50,000 (from $75,000). 70.3 is also a much more appropriate development platform for Ironman, so in terms of support of future athletes, 70.3 represents a much better place to invest time/energy.

One thing I'd like to find out, and maybe Jay & Herbert can help with this, is how many pros are going to pay this (though I'd like to see it in retrospect). Like actual numbers. 100? 1000? Once we know how much money we, as pros, are going to be contributing to WTC's bottom line, I think we might have something to leverage.

This is also the sort of thing I think USAT can/should help with. I'd like to see the AAC take this issue up. Get answers to some of these questions.

Rappstar

Nov 8, 09 8:01

Post #136 of 238 (1241 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [kristenp] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Someone needs to say these things... ;) In all seriousness, I seem to inevitably fall into this position. I suppose it's just the way my brain works. In college, during the equivalent of rush voting, I use to say, "I get that this person is YOUR friend. Tell me why I should want them to be MY 'friend.'" I.e., it's easy to talk about what you want. It's much harder to talk about how what you want will benefit someone else. Many folks lament the lack of involvement of the "top tier" pros - Crowie, Potts, Reed, etc. And I understand that. Because nobody has yet made a case for how what he/she wants will benefit those guys. If you want to get traction, you have to think that way.

Put simply, if I tell you that you suck, can you prove me wrong? Or, if you tell me that I suck, can I prove you wrong? It's a worthwhile exercise to engage in, because it's how the world works. You need to prove your worth. I suppose that is why I end up writing so much against people that I don't see as being invested into being a pro as a career. If being a pro is your J-O-B then I think you wants/needs are quite different than someone who is doing it because they want to race at the front. As an example, does a pro who works a 9-5 job care if he gets health insurance with a pro card? I don't think so, because he gets it from his job. But if you are a full time pro, I would think that health insurance would be at the top of the list of what you want. There is a ton of stratification right now within the pro ranks. And I guess I think that redefining what it means to be a pro (and who can be one) will help fix that. I also think that we (pros) have more influence within USAT than we do with WTC, which is also why I press that issue. But it's equally likely that trimming the number of races down will also help to improve the situation.

Anyway, I just want to be clear on that. When I say what I say, it's because I think we all need to focus on showing what we GIVE rather than on what we want to GET. Why do you/I/we deserve something? Why don't we - collectively - suck? Since right now, based off the status quo, it would appear that, generally, we do.

trimess

Nov 8, 09 8:26

Post #137 of 238 (1215 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Rappstar] [In reply to]	Can't Post

ah, so Jodron was in a Frat, it all becomes so much clearer now.....

And throwing this on the shoulders of the AAC is pretty unfair. I think we have already established that USAT has very little to do with what/how WTC runs it's business. What you need to get is an AAC-type body that does WTC almost exclusively. I served on the USAT Board and AAC for a few years, and I really do think there needs to be some kind of split between long and short course. USAT (understandably) is mainly focused on ITU racing. The long course guys do get the shaft a bit. They need another similar group looking out for their interest.

milesthedog

Nov 8, 09 8:53

Post #138 of 238 (1188 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [ShawnF] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This may have been said, but it appears WTC's real goal is to compete against non IM races and the likes of Rev3, which has been taking pros that could be in their races. Yes, No? Instead of raising the prize purse to compete with Rev 3, it appears they have leveraged the importance of their championship races with financial repercussions if a pro chooses to do the bare minimum by racing only one WTC race to qualify.
--------------------------------------------------
Finger Lakes Running and Triathlon Company
www.fingerlakesrunningcompany.com

brentl

Nov 8, 09 8:54

Post #139 of 238 (1188 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [trimess] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

ah, so Jodron was in a Frat, it all becomes so much clearer now.....

don't be silly. not a frat, an eating club.

R10C

Nov 8, 09 9:22

Post #140 of 238 (1163 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [milesthedog] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

it appears they have leveraged the importance of their championship races with financial repercussions if a pro chooses to do the bare minimum by racing only one WTC race to qualify.

That will be the next logical step - you have to race and qualify with a points series mandating that you need to do more than one WTC race to qualify for the 70.3 championships - sorta NASCAR style. If not, it will be quite easy for HFC or Rev3 to put together a series that will attract folks - fact of the matter is that many folks are sick of the shit from WTC, IMNA, and USAT.

----------------------------------------------------------

f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.

Mito Chondria

Nov 8, 09 10:03

Post #141 of 238 (1132 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [crmartin9] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I personally think you're being a little too optimistic arguing prices will come down, but I certainly hope to be proven wrong."

I was also called to pessimistic a couple years ago for stating the the tri market will get hit and people will spend less. In regard to education, sure Fed subsidized loans made it possible for you to study, at THIS COST. Were it not for the government backing and facilitating all those loans education would never be this expensive in the first place.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Mito Chondria

Nov 8, 09 10:16

Post #142 of 238 (1115 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [STJay] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

There is true value with having the pros there. It's a more obtuse view than is seen here by some on ST, but there is attraction of comparing to it the pros�that's why they adore racing on the same stage on the same day, under the same conditions, as the sport's best. There's that, the public image. There's also endemic marketing. Think Shimano hasn't thought hard about having Craig Alexander be the driving force, in terms of marketing for its Di2 groupset? No, nobody's wearing officlal Crowiegear, but they are buying Orbeas, and Di2, and. The WTC realizes that the sport's endemic brands embrace Ironman for its marketability. I know firsthand how valuable the bike and shoe and helmet companies value being able to market their product around success of their athletes amid the brand......But folks like MissP, lwhom may be getting product-only, will have to go to their sponsors for 2010 and start to demand some money to cover these added costs.

I've seen it with companies that had a monthly advertising budget of close to half a million dollars and when it came truly down to it they didn't know how effective the adds truly were. In the good times when you have sales companies dedicate X money to advertising and that includes sponsoring pros. How many companies that sponsor triathletes truly know their ROI on free gear that they give to middle and back of pack pros and how much ROI they get on the monetary compensation they give to the more competitive ones? I'd say sponsorship money will go down and with that it's silly to DEMAND a monetary compensation in addition to the free product. Not for everybody of course but I think many will get a wake up call to reality when they try to look for sponsors in the coming years. And I think the same thing will be the case with WTC and their add revenues will most likely go down as well. Just my opinion but I think too many have the mindset that they are deserving and entitled. Sponsors are not parents that adapted the athlete, ultimately it all comes down to ROI.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

andrej

Nov 8, 09 11:46

Post #143 of 238 (1069 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Rappstar] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't think reducing the number of races is a way to go. That would make less and less people to consider turning PRO.
If someone really wanted to make triathlon a real PRO sport (like for example tennis) they should increase the prize money and maybe even increase the number of races. More people would see a chance to make a living out of it and they would train more seriously. After 5-10 year period you would have big and tight PRO field. Big prize money also generates spectator and media interest.
Let's look into tennis. You have ATP tournaments with prize purse of at least 500.000 euros every week (sometimes 3 of them in the same week). Except for the grand slams you won't see all the major players (top 10) in the same tournament, but that doesn't reduce spectator interest. I have a friend that's around 200th place on ATP list. He earned $55000 this year. He even received more price money for loosing in the first qualifying round of Wimbledon than triathlon pro gets for podium finish at 70.3 race (not 1. round, there are 3 qualifying round before the 1. round).
If you make prize money even harder to get do you think kids (or talented adults) will see the opportunity in doing this sport for a living?

--------------------------------------------------------
Pro Triathlete Wannabe

(This post was edited by andrej on Nov 8, 09 11:48)

cidewar

Nov 8, 09 12:24

Post #144 of 238 (1045 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [andrej] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This issue is where does this money come from.

The problem with Triathlon (especially IM and 70.3) is that there is virtually no non-race specific sponsorship dollars coming in - and by that I mean primarily TV. Golf, Tennis and even cycling can offer much bigger prize purses because they are getting TV revenue.

Pros are getting paid now the prize money they are getting because that is partially how much money is available. I know you guys all think WTC (and the old IMNA) was sitting on millions of dollars but seriously there isn't that much money left over - and the races do not need the pros to be compelling.

If the WTC and the PROs can get together they should be focusing on how to get more non-endemic exposure for their races and for the athletes. If Macca, Crowie, Chrissy, etc... were showing up more often in People Magazine and on network TV they would be worth more to WTC and to their sponsors. That also applies to up and coming pros and to new pros.

Unfortunately the triathlon industry cannot be expected to shoulder the whole burden of the sponsorship dollars - of the races or of the athletes. The only way to get more money to the PROs is to get more money into the sport and that money is going to have to come from non-traditional tri sources. like FORD, healthcare, Hy-Vee, etc... those major corporations need to be presented the mkt value of triathlon and the marketing value of PRO triathlon.

Honestly I don't think the process will change much until Race Directors, PROs and amateur athletes change the way they think about pro races. If there was a separate race for pros (like 4 hours earlier / later) and there was a way to make it more spectator friendly they could potentially generate more advertising and sponsorship revenue and therefor offer more incentive to have better PROs by offering higher prize purses.

The PRO races need to be looked at as separate events if there is going to be an increase in sponsorship dollars. And there needs to be better competition to get people to watch the races. I think the WTC is on the right direction by trying to increase the depth of their championship fields and by weeding out any pseudo-pros.

I will say the one of PRO category that is going to suffer here is the mid-level ITU pros who do only a couple 70.3 events a year. the big names can afford $750 no problem, but the middle of the pack ITU guys who really should be bringing the level of 70.3s up will be more hesitant to shell out that cash for one or two races.

too bad WTC is heading in the right direction with one aspect and at the same time pushing back on the other. If they are serious about increasing the level of the sport they should exempt anyone who races ITU internationally from the $750 requirement. then they would show a real commitment to pushing the level of the sport and trying to get the best athletes to the best races.

leggett24

Nov 8, 09 12:36

Post #145 of 238 (1035 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [ShawnF] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm not really understanding all this. When AG racers complain about Ironman many people respond with, "They're running a business, if you don't like it go race the independent races". Now the pros are getting a taste of the empires greed, why aren't we seeing the same types of responses?

Mito Chondria

Nov 8, 09 12:49

Post #146 of 238 (1017 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [cidewar] [In reply to]	Can't Post

great post, you're right on the money.

In my earlier reply I mentioned that the TDF would not get its sponsorhip money if it were a non-draft TT event. Not that I prefer to turn triathlon into a running race but here are a couple thoughts what could make long distance tri more interesting:

- longer swim followed by draft legal bike
This would allow for groups to build and with that you would have more of a race with tactics and leaders changing. You'd have to make the swim longer to separate the field.

- reduce the run so that the bike leads become more important, especially if it were draft legal for the bike

All that said, I don't like draft legal races but the current format is just too boring to attract viewers on a larger scale. Either the format needs to change, other changes need to happen or the pros and AG need to understand that the money flowing into triathlon will become less than what it was in the past years. It's like the people complaining about the special participants being featured on the NBC coverage yet without that there wouldn't be a coverage at all or even less advertising dollars as fewer people would tune in.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Mito Chondria

Nov 8, 09 12:51

Post #147 of 238 (1013 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [leggett24] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I'm not really understanding all this. When AG racers complain about Ironman many people respond with, "They're running a business, if you don't like it go race the independent races". Now the pros are getting a taste of the empires greed, why aren't we seeing the same types of responses? "

It's like all other things in life, it's not ok unless it affects you. Socialism and government spending are the perfect examples.

�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Slowman

Nov 8, 09 12:55

Post #148 of 238 (1006 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [STJay] [In reply to]	Can't Post

"I think the pros need someone like Olaf Sabatschus back, or anyone to step up, set up a website and maybe talk about this stuff for 30 minutes following pro meetings at races globally"

but the pros didn't appreciate what olaf was doing. so why are they going to appreciate it now?

if you had to be at least 40 years old before you were allowed to be a pro triathlete, then we'd have a strong union right now. this, because 40 and 50 year olds know the value of how and when to work together, they understand the "long view" in business, they've stopped fighting each other, they don't act like teenagers anymore. they've been mentored in business. they've acquired business ethics. they've learned to think outside of themselves.

but we don't have many pro triathletes who've had that sort of business background. so, our sport's pros don't understand the obvious benefits of collective bargaining, or collective anything. if i hosted a workshop in march, announced it today, held at the beverly wilshire, free of charge, free accommodations, free food, and the workshop is about how to give value back to your sponsors, and the keynote speakers were the president of IMG, and Nike's VP of marketing, and i invited 500 pro triathletes, not one would show up.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

kristenp

Nov 8, 09 13:15

Post #149 of 238 (984 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [Slowman] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I disagree with your assumption that nobody would show up. Most of the Pros who are working toward a union-like organization are the first and second year pros who are looking for guidance on how to deal with race directors and sponsors in the best way and make themselves valuable. There just isn't any leadership out there right now, which is the huge downfall of triathlons' pros.

The other problem I've run into is finding a way to make the pro's who aren't the big names actually valuable to their sponsors and to races. I tried working with every one of my sponsors and every race director this year in setting up some sort of talk/clinic/anything that would help support them and help make me valuable to them. Only one company had any interest and the rest just wanted their big name athletes. Now I completely understand this. People want to hear why Potts swims in BlueSeventy or TYR way more than they care about me, but then how do I up my ROI to sponsors?

This is my question as a new pro who's trying to improve the exposure, participation, and overall interest in triathlon... How do we make ourselves more valuable and thus improve our relationship with AG, directors, sponsors, and media?

I'm just looking for ideas from everyone of what you'd like to see pros doing outside of racing to make a difference or to add something to the sport?
.......................................................
Kristen Peterson
Pro Triathlete
www.KristenPeterson.com

qqqq

Nov 8, 09 13:39

Post #150 of 238 (961 views)

Re: New Ironman Pro Membership [kristenp] [In reply to]	Can't Post

..."but then how do I up my ROI to sponsors? "

simple, you get faster and competitive, just like the "big names" had to do back when they were nobodies. Macca didn't just get sponsors handed to him, he had to try and fail many times before getting there. if you don't want to put in the work or can't compete on that level then you don't get to complain or wonder where your piece of the pie is. simply put, you haven't earned it yet.

--
"Life does not start and stop at your convenience you miserable piece of shit."
-The Big Labowski

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

View All