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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
P4 flop? It's the color...

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agner1

Jul 3, 09 1:38

Post #1 of 45 (2300 views)

P4 flop? It's the color...	Can't Post

I don't know if this is only me who feels in this way, but if P4 is not as popular as it was anticipated, it is the color. A P4 painted all in black somehow reminds me of Ford Model T. If it had a flashy paint scheme, the perception of people would have been different. I know this is such a shallow comment on such a high-tech bike, but this is how I feel. Does anyone feel the same?

footwerx

Jul 3, 09 2:18

Post #2 of 45 (2273 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

there're a lot of double standards going on. Parlee does an all black model with white lettering and it's sexy as hell. Cervelo does it and everybody hates it. I for one think it's their best colour scheme of all their carbon TT bikes ever.

aerobike

Jul 3, 09 4:36

Post #3 of 45 (2140 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

I think it has flopped for three reasons. The first and principle problem is that it has been touted as a huge upgrade to the P3 and priced accordingly. However, no pro team has ridden it so far, even after the bike has been out for almost a year. That I think raises suspicion among the public whether the bike can be so much better, especially given the higher price tag. Cervelo really took off when CSC started riding Cervelo and doing well in the Tour. History has shown time and time again that amateurs want to ride what the good pros ride, especially if they are going to dish out more $. Cervelo's best move was signing on to a Pro Tour team, and marketing the bike as such, making the exact bike ridden in the Tour available to the masses, which even now, is not always done by other biking companies.

Second, as you point out, it looks terrible. The paint scheme is awful. And the bike structurally doesn't even look fast(er) than the P3 - whether it is or isn't, and looks matter for bike sales - although supposedly it is. So not only do no pro teams use it, but it doesn't even look cool or faster. Then again, all their paint schemes, tough to believe after all these years, have been terrible. But the P3 at least looks fast and the P3 was the really the first available carbon time trial bike sold to the public, which made up for the bad paint schemes.

Finally, it is not compatible with the Zipp sub 9. MOst potential buyers of the P4, I'm guessing, simply like to spend money on the newest gear. They probably already have the Sub9 disc or want to buy the sub 9, which is supposedly faster than every other disc wheel. Yet because the P4 and sub 9 are not comptaible, it's tough to purchase the P4 if you already have dished 2+ 000 for the sub9, or hard to justify that a P4 with a normal disc, is faster than a P3 with a sub 9.

Those problems are salvagable I think, but it is shocking that no pro team has ridden the bike so far for this long a period since the bike came out (that of course is supposed to change in the Tour de France).

(This post was edited by aerobike on Jul 3, 09 4:46)

bmanners

Jul 3, 09 4:47

Post #4 of 45 (2109 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

The economy could be a playing factor here also coupled with the billions of people who already have Cervelo's . Its just not hip anymore. Watch out for the Venom.

hgrong

Jul 3, 09 4:49

Post #5 of 45 (2105 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think maybe, just maybe, the TERRIBLE economy has more to do with the lagging sales on a $5k frameset than does the color. If it were 2006, stores wouldn't be able to keep the P4 on the sales floor, regardless of the color.

Cervelo released this at just the wrong time. Not their fault, IMHO, just that the economy tanked right when they were releasing two years worth of R&D.

pharding

Jul 3, 09 4:49

Post #6 of 45 (2104 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [aerobike] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I have a P3 which I took delivery of on July 2. In person the P4 looks faster with more advanced technology. I personally think that the P4 in black looks spectacular. The P3 in complete bike form is a great value with very high quality components. The P4 is only available as a frameset and when it is built up is significantly more than the P3 in complete bike form. To get an incrementally better bike you are paying a lot more in my opinion. For me, as much as I like the P4 including the paint scheme, it was a cost issue.
09 Cervelo P3
09 Pinarello Prince
10 Ridley X-Fire, Size 58 - For Sale on E-Bay
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=2559080#2559080

(This post was edited by pharding on Jul 3, 09 4:50)

Drew_O

Jul 3, 09 6:12

Post #7 of 45 (1942 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Firstly, I don't think the P4 IS a "flop". Retailers have posted on this forum that they are selling as many P4s as they can get from Cervelo. I think there was so so so much hype (remember the ad with they guy scared to cross the road?) around this bike that expectations were impossibly high. I think that if there is one issue that has led to some unmet expectations it is the use of the bottle as a major aerodynamic element, which some decry as "gimmicky".

As for the color, I think it's fine. I like basic black. I think the Parlee and the new Shiv look bada$$, as do some other "stealth" bikes posted here recently. If you find the P4 ugly, blame the lines, not the color.

I do think the P4 is going to have competition from the Shiv, as well as the new Scott, Trek, and Giant bikes, with their innovative front end configs. I wonder if Cervelo tested that kind of setup and found it wanting, or if they consciously eschewed the integrated front end in favor of more and better fit/aerobar options? Anyone know?

Herbert

Jul 3, 09 6:13

Post #8 of 45 (1935 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I like the gloss black with simple white lettering.

Fleck

Jul 3, 09 6:19

Post #9 of 45 (1914 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I for one think it's their best colour scheme of all their carbon TT bikes ever.

Agreed.

Not that this really matters but I have always been a big fan of neutral coloured bikes - all black, all white or even all grey/silver. I am no cycling fashion maven, but when the bike is all one solid neutral colour then you can wear whatever you want and not clash with the bike.

So in defense of the P4 - I like the colour, even if it was the colour of "choice" for the Model T Ford.

Steve Fleck
http://www.nineteenwetsuits.com
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com
http://twitter.com/stevefleck

(This post was edited by Fleck on Jul 3, 09 9:02)

jonnyo

Jul 3, 09 7:01

Post #10 of 45 (1842 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [Drew_O] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Firstly, I don't think the P4 IS a "flop". Retailers have posted on this forum that they are selling as many P4s as they can get from Cervelo. I think there was so so so much hype (remember the ad with they guy scared to cross the road?) around this bike that expectations were impossibly high. I think that if there is one issue that has led to some unmet expectations it is the use of the bottle as a major aerodynamic element, which some decry as "gimmicky".

As for the color, I think it's fine. I like basic black. I think the Parlee and the new Shiv look bada$$, as do some other "stealth" bikes posted here recently. If you find the P4 ugly, blame the lines, not the color.

I do think the P4 is going to have competition from the Shiv, as well as the new Scott, Trek, and Giant bikes, with their innovative front end configs. I wonder if Cervelo tested that kind of setup and found it wanting, or if they consciously eschewed the integrated front end in favor of more and better fit/aerobar options? Anyone know?

HAHAAHAH

that guy was me! I just made it for fun on a silly day!!!!

And as you said, it s hard to be a flop when a bike is sold out for so long...... Not many company will put there costumer ahead of there pro to get onboard those super bike. I think it s actually pretty cool that a costumer could by this bike and ride it even before the pro cyclist and triathlete could do the same!

.
Jonathan Caron
Professional Triathlete and Coach
jonnyoworld.blogspot.com
Teamtbb.com

(This post was edited by jonnyo on Jul 3, 09 7:21)

IKnowEverything

Jul 3, 09 7:08

Post #11 of 45 (1812 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

It's not the "color scheme" persay, it's the way they put that ugly freaking "P4" logo, in a terrible font, in the worst possible place.

If you put a subtle, slightly more "relaxed" or swept back font on the top tube, i think you'd see much better results.

hgrong

Jul 3, 09 7:17

Post #12 of 45 (1789 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [Drew_O] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

Retailers have posted on this forum that they are selling as many P4s as they can get from Cervelo.

I don't know about the retailers on ST, but Gear West has at least 4 or 5 hanging on the wall if anyone is looking for one. They have had NO trouble getting them from Cervelo. They have, however, had trouble getting them to customers. According to the owner they have sold one so far. They have had it in the store for months now.

jackmott

Jul 3, 09 7:20

Post #13 of 45 (1777 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

how popular was it anticipated to be?

how popular IS it?

In Reply To

----
rear wheel disc ALWAYS http://www.wheelbuilder.com if you are poor front wheel whatever torodial rim based wheel you want, or an H3. deeper if yer faster shallower if yer slower tires - http://www.biketechreview.com has crr data, use it frames - position trumps aero trumps weight trumps paintjob trumps stiffness water bottle between your arms or not at all if its a sprint swimget some swim lessons, its cheaper than buying bike speed train more and HTFU

jsquared

Jul 3, 09 7:29

Post #14 of 45 (1748 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Sorry, I love it. I've also got a Klein Pulse II mtb that's solid black and I love it too. My racing duds are all grey tone as well as my helmet. Makes me look like the angel of death.

(it's just the goth in me)
JJ
A Cake???
I don't even have the ingredients for the batter right now!

alex_emetique

Jul 3, 09 7:44

Post #15 of 45 (1713 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [hgrong] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Function over Esthetic.

I get a cervelo because I want to be fast. Cervelo is for serious triathlete... if you are more attracted by the look of a bike... well... just don't buy it.

spend money on R&D not in marketing and graphic design...

p.s: I'm a graphic designer...

Tri509

Jul 3, 09 7:45

Post #16 of 45 (1711 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [agner1] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I like the paint scheme. Not as busy as most other bikes. Personally I would not buy a P4 because of the proprietary water bottle. Because of it's location it is hard to reach compared to a bottle mounted on the down tube. In addition, I go through a fair amount of water bottles in a year. They simply get nasty after awhile and I can't imagine buying new P4 bottles at every other month. The bottle in not $2.95...

JudgeNick

Jul 3, 09 7:45

Post #17 of 45 (1708 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [jsquared] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

+1 for all black paint schemes - I love 'em!

Salazar Photography, LLC
www.salazarphotography.com

jackmott

Jul 3, 09 7:47

Post #18 of 45 (1697 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [Tri509] [In reply to]	Can't Post

i would only use the propeitary bottle for races

put a regular one on most of the time

now, go buy one!

In Reply To

Chubbly

Jul 3, 09 7:59

Post #19 of 45 (1670 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

now, go buy one!

WTF??? Why don't you go buy one? Tell us all the reasons why you don't have one Jack?

jsquared

Jul 3, 09 8:55

Post #20 of 45 (1572 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [JudgeNick] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Nickster you've got me beat, I've left the white lettering on. But minus 1 point for the red tape.

JJ
A Cake???
I don't even have the ingredients for the batter right now!

jackmott

Jul 3, 09 8:59

Post #21 of 45 (1550 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [Chubbly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Quote

now, go buy one!

WTF??? Why don't you go buy one? Tell us all the reasons why you don't have one Jack?

I am too poor!
----
rear wheel disc ALWAYS http://www.wheelbuilder.com if you are poor front wheel whatever torodial rim based wheel you want, or an H3. deeper if yer faster shallower if yer slower tires - http://www.biketechreview.com has crr data, use it frames - position trumps aero trumps weight trumps paintjob trumps stiffness water bottle between your arms or not at all if its a sprint swimget some swim lessons, its cheaper than buying bike speed train more and HTFU

JudgeNick

Jul 3, 09 9:06

Post #22 of 45 (1522 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [jsquared] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

But minus 1 point for the red tape.

JJ

That red ain't tape ... it's leftovers from skewered competitors.

Salazar Photography, LLC
www.salazarphotography.com

Chubbly

Jul 3, 09 9:06

Post #23 of 45 (1520 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

I am too poor!

No, you just want it bad enough.....

jackmott

Jul 3, 09 9:09

Post #24 of 45 (1508 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [Chubbly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

obviously the two parameters work together to lead to my decision.

it the bike were around $1000 like my p3 aluminum cost me, id pick one up =)

In Reply To

Quote

I am too poor!

No, you just want it bad enough.....

Tri509

Jul 3, 09 9:24

Post #25 of 45 (1461 views)

Re: P4 flop? It's the color... [jackmott] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

i would only use the propeitary bottle for races

put a regular one on most of the time

In Reply To

Where would you put the regular bottle? If I remember right you can't mount a regular bottle cage to the frame. I don't remember seeing any threaded inserts.

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