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Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one?

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Tom Demerly

Mar 25, 04 17:57

Post #1 of 34 (580 views)

Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one?	Can't Post

I've spent a lot of time in the ocean for a guy from Michigan but I have never seen or experienced a "rip current" or "rip tide" which, I read, are two different things.

Have any of you guys experienced this? Several swimmers drowned in Florida recently as reported by CNN in rip currents. Julian's thread on the swimmer lost in Caifornia made me notice this.

How common is this?

(This post was edited by Tom Demerly on Mar 25, 04 17:58)

sawyer

Mar 25, 04 18:15

Post #2 of 34 (567 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've experience a rip current surfing in WA state. In Westport there is a jetty that creates the current, and a lot of guys use it to get pulled out past the break. There's a very noticeable speed difference in the current vs out of it, and the closer you get to the jetty the faster the pull is. I wouldn't want to get in it without a board for floatation and to cushion my tender self from the jetty rocks. Couldn't tell you if there was any undertow, but the pull out was strong enough to tire me out fighting the pull towards the jetty on one occasion, I just could not fight my way out of the current laterally. Saw a guy walk a broken board off the jetty one day after getting pushed onto it...

sawyer

Tri N OC

Mar 25, 04 18:35

Post #3 of 34 (549 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

As a water polo player and beach fan growing up in So. Cal., we always used a rip to get outside the break quickly. I think the danger is in panicing when trying to swim in against the current. You can't. Think swimming against an endless pool. The easy way is to swim parallel to the shore. A rip is rarely more than 100 yds wide. If you are not a strong swimmer with some open water experience, stay away and don't play with them. Now, with a bit more maturity, I have to add that it is still probably not a really smart thing to do in any event because, as noted before, it is an unforgiving environment.

super clyde

Mar 25, 04 18:39

Post #4 of 34 (540 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Rip currents are essentially a river flowing out between two objects, those objects can be sand bars jetty's or what have you. They only last until the trailing edge of both obstuctions. I have come across them in both swimming and surfing. surfing being much more scary due to wave size. Wave will not break in the rip but they do break at the very end of. My move on the rip is to ride it out, at most 50-60 yards swim in a north or south direction which ever more convienient for 10-20 yards depending on the width of the rip and swim toward shore. Just don't panic and be cool it will all be fine. we can all swim miles, a few extra yards and a couple duck dives will not ruin our day.

ajfranke

Mar 25, 04 18:39

Post #5 of 34 (540 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I just learned today that a college classmate of mine died last weekend in a rip current off Palm Beach. I didn't know him, but the news sure cast a shadow over my day.

I was in a noticeable rip current once a few years ago. I helped pull an old man back to shore. The lifeguards were pulling a bunch of people out that day. It is hard to see how a rip current forms down here since the shoreline is so straight. I guess there are enough variations to allow water to be swept out in one place while it sweeps in somewhere else.

The current was strong that day, but it doesn't seem dangerous if you keep your head. Don't fight the current, just swim along the shore until you find a place you can swim back. If you panic or have a cramp or some other problem though, I guess it can be deadly.

Be careful out there.
____
This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04

Art Franke

krgregg

Mar 25, 04 18:42

Post #6 of 34 (536 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

i was in one once when i was 10ish...scared the shit out of me...i smoked a rock on the bottom of the ocean bodyboarding in hawaii....

decided not to swim out that deep again

"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

edwinj

Mar 25, 04 19:14

Post #7 of 34 (509 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

A few years ago I did the USTS Oceanside race. The surf was pretty nasty, getting close to 10' I think and the sets were pretty tight. The Pro women left first if I remember correctly and some had a hard time getting out. When the pro men went off, a large bunch of them made a left turn at the waters edge, ran about 50 yards north and then got in. It was then that I noticed there was a place where the waves were not breaking. There was a nice little rip current there and the guys that had some knowledge of the surf, spotted it and used it to their advantage. It was amazing how fast it took those guys out. Needless to say, when my wave went off almost everyone did the same thing as the pro men. It was pretty cool just getting towed out past the breakers without having to fight through them. Of course coming back in was a different story with 10' waves crashing on top of you.

Ed

_________________________________________________

LLLEEEEEEEEEEEERRRROOOYYY JEEENNNNNKKKIIINNNNNS!!!

Tom Demerly

Mar 25, 04 19:27

Post #8 of 34 (503 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm glad I asked about this. Very interesting. You guys have a lot of good insights.

Thank you! Never swim alone.

JohnA

Mar 25, 04 19:33

Post #9 of 34 (493 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

One of the best body boarding areas in Capitola (near santa cruz) had a killer rip tide. It just kinda sucked you out if you were deep enough. Ocean Beach in San Francisco is known for it's rip tides - you get caught in one and you may pop out 100 yards out to sea - or further...

Generally you will survive if you keep your cool. You will get held under, but you will also pop out - especially if you are attached to a bodyboard or surfboard. People die when they panic, use up oxygen, then drown.

shep

Mar 25, 04 19:43

Post #10 of 34 (491 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Tom,

rips are virtually in existance on every beach with some surf .The bigger the surf the more obvious the rip. It is just the water that gets trapped by the following waves trying to make its way back out.

Once you know what they look like they are easy to spot particularly from an elevated spot above the beach. Examples might be a deeper looking section where the waves don't break or even more obvious is discoloured water (e.g.sandy) being sucked out to ocean.

as the other guys have said they only last about 50 metres at max and are only a danger to the inexperienced. I think people panic at the lack of control they feel and fight against it.

I live in Mooloolaba in Australia, a coastal holiday destination and I used to be volunteer lifesaver and the most likely person to get in trouble is someone on holidays who doesn't live near the coast. Japanese tourists are also high on the get in trouble list.

On a side note, the Australian olympic distance championships are on here this week-end. Weather is great.

cheers

shep.

docfuel

Mar 25, 04 21:23

Post #11 of 34 (462 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

As far as I can tell, there are two kinds of rips.
1)When there is a trough on the bottom the water from the surf will tend to move toward that trough and return via that lower resistance route.

Got caught in one in cold water after a long session of body surfing big waves in 10-12 foot deep water. I was pooped and cold. (I wasn't in great shape anyway.) Just when I had resigned myself to swimming south to get around it, a couple of big waves broke outside me. I just let 'em slam me and swam in behind in the turbulence. By then I could put me feet in the sand.

2)When there is really big surf and especially if it is breaking at an angle to the shore. The water from all those big waves seems to build up and finally roars back out, flattening even those big waves, and making what look like rapids. At Zuma Beach (north of Malibu), when the waves are over 6 feet, especially when they are over 8 (and 8 footers at Zuma seem to be faster and more powerful than 10 footers elsewhere) they almost break at and angle. They get these moving rips that slowlly move down the shore about 100-200 yards apart. You have to get you feet dug into the sand whttn you see them coming. On those days the rescue boats just cruise the shorline. Lots of folks just suddenly get swept 100 yards out in seconds.
I've always managed to avoid those.
_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

FLA Jill

Mar 25, 04 21:32

Post #12 of 34 (456 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

There are definitely rip tides and rip currents on the Great Lakes at times. I can remember a summer camp trip to Lake Michigan near Ludington where for whatever reason they let us swim in red flag rip current conditions. As long as you go with the current, they're actually rather fun. (But then I know what I'm doing in rough water better than most people)

"If you get caught up in a rip current, do not try to swim against the current. Instead, let the current carry you parallel the beach. It will let up, and when it does, you can swim to shore."

Standard speech from the locals down here if the touristas actually ask us. Which most don't, and most touristas don't seem to really care about the beach flags system. People will go in the water when the red flags are up, because they paid for their vacation, darn it, and they're going in the water, and nothing bad ever happens to them on vacations.

The weekends we had multiple drownings here last year, the sheriffs and lifeguards were going up and down the beaches telling people to get out of the water due to dangerous surf. Then as soon as the lifeguards and sheriffs passed by, people were right back in the water.

Sigh. Idiots.

mdileo

Mar 25, 04 21:46

Post #13 of 34 (448 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [FLA Jill] [In reply to]	Can't Post

There are quite a few different types of rip currents, permanent rips, traveling rips, and flash rips to name a few.

Flash rips cause the biggest trouble on my beach in NJ. Generally, at low tide when you have a lot of basically non-swimmers on a sand bar, the waves may get larger later in the afternoon. An instability forms on the bar that creates a tunnel in the sand for the incoming water to rush out to the ocean. A river flowing out to sea quickly forms and drags anyone in the area out with it. Since the bathers are often non-swimmers and shocked, it can lead to the 2nd or 3rd stage of drowning very quickly. Those being "climbing the ladder" and submersion, respectively.

We train in rip currents whenever possible so that my guards can identify them, know what they feel like, and can spot them to adjust their flags to keep bathers out of them, or use them to quickly reach victims.

I generally have my guards clear the bars if the surf builds, or as the tide begins to go out since many bathers will also have trouble traversing the gully of deep water that often exists between the bar and the shore.

This summer will be my 21st year as a lifeguard, and my 12th as Captain of a patrol so I've had quite a bit of experience with rip currents.

- Mark (www.SurfCityBeachPatrol.com)

LarryM96815

Mar 25, 04 22:18

Post #14 of 34 (440 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Tom,

You recently mentioned coming to Hawaii for the Olympic trials triathlon. The same morning the amateur event swim course actually has a pretty strong rip current. The waves come in over a reef and flow back out through a channel where you swim. I have timed myself before and the time coming in was just double the time going out. Kind of scary if you are already tired and 250 yards to shore in 15 - 20 foot of water. You will see what I mean when you get here. :~)

Aloha,

Larry

UK Gearmuncher

Mar 26, 04 1:10

Post #15 of 34 (425 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Hi Tom,

When I'm not teaching at University (or training !) I normally work the summer season as a lifeguard (this will be my 9th now). We get a fair few rips round here mainly caused by sandbars and rock peninsulas. They can be frightening if you've never been in one before and even the heaviest and strongest swimmers can just as easily find themselves being sucked out 200m to sea. If in doubt, swim parallel to the shore to escape or just go out with it til it subsides then swim across and then in.

I pulled people in like tuna last season because to the untrained eye you can't see one (although calm swirling water in a small area is often a sign) and people panic easily when they experience uncontrollable currents (Jaws has a lot to answer for as well !).

The bottom line here really is (despite your competence) never open water train alone and make sure you have lifeguards around.

------------------------------------------------------------

In God we trust but for everyone else, bring data.
Ric Stern.

Robert Preston

Mar 26, 04 5:36

Post #16 of 34 (392 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This is an article in the swim center that mentions how to use a rip current to your advantage. I have never been caught in one before, but my father was as a youngster. He said it scared him badly. One minute he was swimming along and the next minute he was being swept out away from the shore. He managed to keep his head about him, and he swam back in after the current was done with him. But he said it shook him up pretty good.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/swimcenter/secrets.html

tri_bri2

Mar 26, 04 7:07

Post #17 of 34 (356 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [ajfranke] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Water that is being pushed in-shore by strong off-shore winds (such as Palm Beach had last weekend) has to go back out somehow. It will find a break in the sandbar (or make one) and flow out through the break. Experienced surf watchers can identify a rip area by looking at the surf. We have a lot of rips in NWFla this time of year due to prevalent SE winds. This hits right at Spring Break time. Result--usually several fewer Yankees going back north than came south.

bitwiz

Mar 26, 04 7:20

Post #18 of 34 (347 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [tri_bri2] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Lake Ontario has some nice rup currents that most people don't know about, as hardly anyone swims in it any more (well, I do, but most think I'm crazy for doing it).

Couple of years ago I lost a paddling friend who went out of Frenchman's Bay in Pickering and probably flipped at the mouth of the bay, getting sucked under into the rocks around the entrance...

vitus979

Mar 26, 04 10:08

Post #19 of 34 (309 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

http://www.nps.gov/indu/rip.htm

Pertains specifically to Lake Michigan. Just in case you can't get to one of those salt water pools by NY or LA.

;)

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

HowlinKatTribe

Mar 26, 04 11:28

Post #20 of 34 (281 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [Tom Demerly] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Being an avid scuba diver and once lived in San Diego for 13 years we regularly experience rip currents in and around La Jolla Cove..there are several beaches there with permanent rips. If you know what to look for you can actually see them when you observe the ocean surface from up above say an overlook. You can ride the rip out but when swimming in of you find yourself in one just swim perpendicular to it to get out rather than fight it. We would usually find divers trying to come in against the rip currents at Casa Cove and a few other places and would often have to rescue them specially during night dives out there. ( yep certified scuba rescue diver,with CPR , first aid cert and oxygen provider training).

So yes they do exist and will carrry you out or the swimmer will exhaust himself trying to swim against it to get back to shore. We also regularly trained divers in our classes about rips, how to handle them and what to look for at a beach.

thats my two cents.
------------------------------------------------

Trying to find ways to pass the time.

Endo

Mar 26, 04 12:54

Post #21 of 34 (223 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [jonathanb565] [In reply to]	Can't Post

OK, I get the drift (no pun intended) of what rip tides/currents are, but what are undertows? Are they just another name for the same thing, or are these specifically currents that pull you under the water, instead of just "out"?

If undertows are different, what is specifically different about what causes one of these, when compared to a rip tide/current?

In the panhandle of Florida, I always grew up hearing things of this nature referred to as undertows. When I moved to the West coast it was rip tides.

vitus979

Mar 26, 04 13:14

Post #22 of 34 (214 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [HeatMiser] [In reply to]	Can't Post

They're more or less the same thing, manifested in a different way.

A riptide is like a river or stream flowing out from the shore. It's narrow, and it's a surface phenomenon.

An undertow isn't so channelized, and it's subsurface, which is why people talk about getting pulled under by it.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

doug in co

Mar 26, 04 13:34

Post #23 of 34 (202 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [HeatMiser] [In reply to]	Can't Post

often used interchangeably, but they are strictly speaking not the same thing. See
http://www.mit.edu/~goodmanj/madsci/934318105.Es.r.html

Undertow is mostly a fiction, I've never experienced one of any significant power. Rips on the other hand are a problem if you don't know about them.
----
"But if the cause be not good, the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads chopped off in a battle shall join together at the latter day, and cry all, 'We died at such a place'- some swearing, some crying for a surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left."
Soldier, in Henry V.

docfuel

Mar 26, 04 13:52

Post #24 of 34 (188 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [vitus979] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Undertows usually occur on steeper beaches with large waves. The waves run way up the beach, then run back down forcefully and undercut the surface water. This causes a shear, which can pull the swimmers feet out from under them (they have to dig their toes into the sand and lean in). I doesn't cause a problem if you are not standing.
_________________
Dick

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I know nothing.

cheyou

Mar 26, 04 14:27

Post #25 of 34 (171 views)

Re: Rip Currents: Anyone ever experience one? [jonathanb565] [In reply to]	Can't Post

La Jolla got me in 1982. I just swam north for a while. It got tired of me and let me go. I don't think I tasted right for Mr Rip. That was my first time. I ain't no rip tide cherry no more.

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