Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum: Swim Stroke Analysis

Calendar Coaches Fitters Retailers Triathlon Clubs Stack & Reach Custom Geometry Calculator Training Log
		MAIN INDEX	RULES & LEGEND	LOG IN

Search for (options)

Newsletter Signup

Slowtwitch Forums: Triathlon Forum:
Swim Stroke Analysis

1 2

View All

prattzc

Nov 3, 09 11:59

Post #1 of 29 (1107 views)

Swim Stroke Analysis	Can't Post

I bought an underwater camcorder to record my swim stroke. I'm a 30 minute half-iron swimmer, but I want to be a sub 30 and just be more energy efficient.

I looked online for swim stroke analysis software, but I admit, I have no clue on what to do.

Is there a service or software out there that can analyze a video of a persons swim stroke and be able to pin-point problem areas?

The only thing I found that is remotely close to what I'm after is software called "eagle eye digital video".

Anyone have any thoughts?
MTMBWY

tigerchik

Nov 3, 09 12:02

Post #2 of 29 (1096 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

there's this Dartfish thing I've heard of but I don't really know what it is.

The cheap way is to make it a YouTube video, post the link here, and let us have some fun with it.
___________________
November Stuff:
http://www.nanowrimo.org - National Novel Writer's Month
The 3rd (4th? I can't remember) November Swim Challenge

Devlin

Nov 3, 09 12:03

Post #3 of 29 (1093 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Film at least a minute of swimming normal stroke towards the camera, one minute swimming away, one minute from the side (All underwater). Film a minute from above the water surface as well. Make sure you get shots of breathing, stroke, recovery and kick.

Repeat the above at the end of a workout when you are tired.

Compile it into a video and post links to it, there are quite a few very knowledgeable people here that will look at it and offer suggestions.

John

Sponsors: Rudy Project

That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche

dvfmfidc

Nov 3, 09 12:07

Post #4 of 29 (1077 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [Devlin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

And dont forget to get some hotties on film as well so we dont get bored looking at your "stroke" video!

prattzc

Nov 3, 09 12:12

Post #5 of 29 (1067 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [dvfmfidc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

If it were simply a "stroke" video, it would be over in 5 seconds. As it will be a "swim stroke" video, it will take a bit longer.

Thanks guys, I'll see what I can do tomorrow morning.

And yeah, I'm fat, hairy, and pasty looking, I just need help on the swim stroke, the fact that I'm ugly doesn't help in the analysis!!
MTMBWY

tigerchik

Nov 3, 09 12:14

Post #6 of 29 (1061 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'll give you some hints first

1. Do not wear a watch. If you wear a watch I will yell something like "USE THE PACE CLOCK." Even if you wear a watch swimming, don't wear it in the video, so I don't have to yell.

2. No snorkel mask. You better have real googles. Swedes are best in terms of looking swimmer-ish.

3. No pull buoy or fins. Or wetsuits.

have at it
___________________
November Stuff:
http://www.nanowrimo.org - National Novel Writer's Month
The 3rd (4th? I can't remember) November Swim Challenge

dvfmfidc

Nov 3, 09 12:14

Post #7 of 29 (1061 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

thats what i meant....

gamebofh

Nov 3, 09 12:59

Post #8 of 29 (998 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

3. No pull buoy or fins. Or wetsuits.

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Film. Video. With. Pull Buoy AND fins AND wetsuit.

-Jot

(edit to fix format)

(This post was edited by gamebofh on Nov 3, 09 13:06)

jackmott

Nov 3, 09 13:00

Post #9 of 29 (994 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

no there is no software that can do what you are imagining.

In Reply To:

----
Sunglasses: http://www.framesdirect.com/sunglasses
Tri Gear: http://www.atctrishop.com
rear wheel disc ALWAYS http://www.wheelbuilder.com if poor front wheel whatever torodial rim wheel you want, or H3. deeper if yer faster shallower if yer slower tires - http://www.biketechreview.com has crr data, use it frames - position trumps aero trumps weight trumps paintjob trumps stiffness water bottle between your arms or not at all if its a sprint swimget some swim lessons, its cheaper than buying bike speed train more and HTFU

tigerchik

Nov 3, 09 13:01

Post #10 of 29 (991 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [gamebofh] [In reply to]	Can't Post

don't forget the snorkel mask. And watch.
___________________
November Stuff:
http://www.nanowrimo.org - National Novel Writer's Month
The 3rd (4th? I can't remember) November Swim Challenge

Mr. Blonde

Nov 3, 09 13:05

Post #11 of 29 (979 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [gamebofh] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

3. No pull buoy or fins. Or wetsuits.

Must. Resist. Urge. To. Film. Video. With. Pull Buoy AND fins AND wetsuit.

-Jot

A few months ago I swam next to someone whom was using a pull buoy and wearing fins at the same time. No, I'm not kidding. Should've added to the "strange denizens" thread...
-------------------------------------------

More Me

gamebofh

Nov 3, 09 13:08

Post #12 of 29 (964 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [Mr. Blonde] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Now that I think about it, using a pull buoy and fins is quite an accomplishment.

-Jot

martyg

Nov 3, 09 15:24

Post #13 of 29 (839 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Analyzing swim strokes is part of my business, if you can put together a few minutes of various angles and send me a link, I can review and comment. You may preview several previous lessons here: www.youtube.com/osbmultisport.
--
Marty Gaal, CSCS
One Step Beyond Coaching
Triangle Open Water Mile Swim Series
Powerstroke® Freestyle Technique DVD

tigerchik

Nov 3, 09 15:28

Post #14 of 29 (829 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [gamebofh] [In reply to]	Can't Post

wait, here's the list. Our parody swimmer

wetsuit
watch
pull buoy, paddles, and band
snorkel mask - not the tube thing but the mask part that covers the nose
that cap with the chin strap and all the flowers
fins

We shall call him "TriathelFish"
___________________
November Stuff:
http://www.nanowrimo.org - National Novel Writer's Month
The 3rd (4th? I can't remember) November Swim Challenge

gamebofh

Nov 3, 09 15:32

Post #15 of 29 (818 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Wait a minute....why can't I use a snorkle? ;)

-Jot

flying wombat

Nov 3, 09 16:30

Post #16 of 29 (774 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Shouldnt that be Triathlerockfish? You forgot the Garmin coz you dont want to get lost in the pool.
What would he be wearing on the bike and run?

Kevin
www.tri2bfitaz.com
www.tri-mesa.com
FIST certified fitter

Devlin

Nov 3, 09 17:00

Post #17 of 29 (746 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [gamebofh] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Wait a minute....why can't I use a snorkle? ;)

-Jot

you can't use it until you can spell it.

John

Sponsors: Rudy Project

That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche

kdw

Nov 3, 09 17:17

Post #18 of 29 (726 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Unless I'm in one of the 2 lanes closest to the pace clock, I can't make out the hands. Can I wear a watch then?

gamebofh

Nov 3, 09 17:17

Post #19 of 29 (726 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [Devlin] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Wait a minute....why can't I use a snorkle? ;)

-Jot

you can't use it until you can spell it.

John

What if I learn to capitalize sentences correctly? ;)

-Jot

FLA Jill

Nov 3, 09 18:59

Post #20 of 29 (648 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You get a pass on the watch issue if you've got worse than -7.0 myopia and you don't have vision correction in the pool.

prattzc

Nov 5, 09 8:43

Post #21 of 29 (477 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [tigerchik] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ok, so I'm trying to figure this whole thing out and I promise to load better video tomorrow afternoon, but here is the first attempt at trying to record my pathetic swim stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0npjhnj1s0

I was in a lane that had stairs going down into it, so I couldn't really keep swimming more than 1 lap.

Already I see a HUGE problem with crossing my arms over.

The underwater shots of me are nothing but bubbles, like a bad scene out of Jaws.

And btw, the guy 2 lanes from me had a pull bouy AND fins at one point.
MTMBWY

Devlin

Nov 5, 09 8:49

Post #22 of 29 (467 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

Yep.

1. Crossing over huge. This causes you to "snake" in the water.
2. Kick is way too wide, probably for balance because of the snaking, and mostly just kind of draggy. No structure/timing to it.
3. Your hands enter just above your head and push forward underwater, this is also costing you time/energy.

Luckily, working on the reach/extension to fix the cross over will also help the early entry.

Now, it's not all bad. You've got good rotation in your upper body, but it's somewhat disconnected to your kick. Your kick should be helping drive that rotatoin, so if you can get your kick working a little better, it will have a big impact. Arm recovery, up to the entry point is great, your head position is fine and looks like you are breathing well.

Overall, not bad, and much better than a lot I've seen! :D

John

Sponsors: Rudy Project

That is 11 dimensions of awesome. Yes, string theory is necessary to fully appreciate the meta-nature of your post.-DaveRoche

daved

Nov 5, 09 9:37

Post #23 of 29 (425 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Zack,

FWIW, I would suggest that you are doing too much (or trying to do WAY TOO MUCH) with each of your arms. The elbow joint is going to both extremes of hyper-extension. The amount of movement through your elbow joint is VERY VERY little. Some call it straight arm. But if you were walking... you would be doing a heel to butt kick and a high knee lift on every stride. Not a good way to walk or run.
You appear to have a good "feel" for the water though and overall your position (of your body -- hips chest and head) are quite good, relative to the surface of the water. That is to say... your feet are not sinking, head in good position, chest is not "floating". The issue I see is your arms are the primary movers. When in reality it should be your body. You are 18 strokes (approx) to get down the length of the pool. I would suggest (and everyone here will gasp) you should be more around 21 or 22. Stop trying to extend (as recommended) out front as much. And push so far behind you. The goal is not to move as much water as you can. The goal should be to decrease the time between your anchor points. The anchor point ususally falls between nose and nipple line. I call that your swimming stride area.
Put simply, your freestyle arms should mimic a butterfly stroke arm but done alternately. And your weight does not shift front to back (short axis like fly and breast) rather weight forward/down like in long axis (free and back). You can generate much more speed and power with your recovery arm (dont associate recovery with easing off effort, I mean the arm that is recovering to the front of the stroke or the over water arm). What you are doing is 110% underwater focused. When it should be 10% underwater and 90% overwater (what you focus on).
To summarize: do less with your arms. Simplify the movement through elbow and hence the whole arm. Move water AWAY from you (like in fly) not under you or behind you.
All the best

FLA Jill

Nov 5, 09 9:45

Post #24 of 29 (412 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [prattzc] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'm having a hard time concentrating because of the 'Large Snake Attack' bit in the related videos section. I have a huge snake phobia.

Solving your crossover problem is going to help out a lot. It's ugly right now, and you're going to save a lot of energy when you aren't going sideways all the time. You've also got a tendency to cut off your stroke on the front end- hand is entering too close to the head and immediately going into the catch. You want more extension on the front end of your stroke. (and make it feel like super-wide entry; remember that yyou've got a fair amount of body roll that is going to roll your arm towards and past the long axis after entry)

You're a little bit assymetrical. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd throw some breathing every 3 into warm-up regularly to make sure you're comfortable breathing on both sides if you have to on race day.

tom1376

Nov 5, 09 10:13

Post #25 of 29 (379 views)

Re: Swim Stroke Analysis [gamebofh] [In reply to]	Can't Post

AND snorkel mask

1 2

View All