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Timberman reviews

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Frankthetank

Aug 18, 08 20:21

Post #1 of 61 (1822 views)

Timberman reviews	Can't Post

Just wanted to say that Timberman was awesome. It was my first time racing the course. The weather was awesome, the bike course was beautiful, and the run was perfect.

That being said...here it comes... maybe I have been spoiled with other races but I had some issues with the food and bathrooms. I think they could have used two to three times as many bathrooms. I was a good warmup to have to squat over the poop hole high enough so the mound of other people's feces did not touch my red eye. Also the 25 minute wait to get to the mound of feces was fun. Maybe there are not that many port-a-johns in Gilford, NH but isnt that why we sign up 8 months in advance...so that can deal with logistics.

Also, after I race all I want is some food. When I have to stand around in line for 40 minutes to get some pizza, I get a little bitter. Try a bigger tent or more lines. Maybe there are not enough volunteers, and the director has no control over it. But you could hire some kid for 7 dollars an hour to shove pizza in my face. I just figure that if I pay over 200 bucks to race, I should be able to get a little food and take a crap before getting in the car.

I probably just need some cheese with this wine, but the precedence has been set by other races I have been to. I don't make a ton of money and at other races I felt like I got what I paid for.
We're going streakin' on the quad! You can bring your green hat. Come on!

luckyleese

Aug 18, 08 21:13

Post #2 of 61 (1800 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Frankthetank] [In reply to]	Can't Post

First up there will never be enough porta poties - that is an immutable rule as old as time so no point complaining.

Re the food I kind of agree. The food was actually the best I've ever had postrace but I kind of beat the rush and I know a lot of people who gave up waiting. IMO the issue was not the amount or number of the queues but giving people a buffet: as soon as you do that you get 2000 people carefully selectiong their antipasti (seriously the food was that good) inspecting their apples and negotiating their cookie allowance. That's what slowed people down and the whole thing would have gone more smoothly if like at the carbo dinner people had just had one choice and limited time.

Props to enduro sports though that race is AWESOME - every other aspect of the day was incredible and I had a great time.

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

KJ

Aug 19, 08 5:27

Post #3 of 61 (1732 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [luckyleese] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

Nope, never enough porta potties. we had 44 porta potties at the site, and 40 on course. That's a ton.

As for the food, we made a decision to try to make the food alot better this year. So, color me guilty on that. Adding Fratello's Restaurant antipasto, great homemade cookies, pasta salad, fresh veggies was fantastic. The food was fantastic. This was an addition to the pizza, ice cream, bagels, etc...

It was Fratello's first year, and they took great pride in the presentation, etc. However, it also moved really slowly because of this. It also moved slowly because many athletes took advantage of the situation, and LOADED up with food. It really slowed the line down.

When we saw the line getting long, we had people walk up and down the line with pizza and water.

If you don't feel like you got your money's worth at Timberman, I don't know what to say. I'm very confident is saying that no race puts as much effort or money into the athletes as us. You can have your opinion, and I respect it. I just wholeheartedly disagree with you.

Yes, we spent a TON of money on the great new food. Did it work smoothly? No, it didn't. But it was with the intention to IMPROVE your experience. We could always go the easy, less expensive route and just have pizza. Or, we could cut down on the choices.

We've already met about this, and are working on a food court for athletes, with multiple smaller tents with different foods, so there aren't any lines.

EVERYTHING we do is to improve the athlete experience. It'd be MUCH easier to just take away things, and make our lives much simpler. We could eliminate the better food, the busing system with box trucks/bike racks in them, etc and I'm sure the race would still sell out. It'd also be much easier to put on, and save us a ton of money.

It's not how we work. Our goal, as always, is to have the best races in the world. The things we added, IMO, were great. Will it work smoothly next year. You bet.....

luckyleese

Aug 19, 08 5:37

Post #4 of 61 (1713 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think you addressed some of the OP's issues in your reply to me so I just wanted to make clear I definitely did feel that I got my money's worth - many times over. As I tried to make clear this was one of the best races I've ever done - please don't take any lighthearted suggestions as more than that

Cheers!

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

leggett24

Aug 19, 08 5:37

Post #5 of 61 (1710 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I wasn't there this year so I can't coment on any of those issues. However I will say that one of the best thing about your races is I always feel like you've made every effort to give me more than my moneys worth.

lesson989

Aug 19, 08 6:05

Post #6 of 61 (1652 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

We've participated in many races in the past four years. We've been to some that are really great and some that were absolutely horrible. We both agree that we would put Timberman in the really great category! As others have already said there are never enough porta potties. My husband actually commented yesterday that the only way to 'enhance' the porta potty experience would be to have one porta potty per person! Anything short of that and there are going to be lines and complaints. Absolutely everyone is trying to get that last pee or poop in before the race starts and with 1,600 people all trying to do that at the same time, someone is bound to be disappointed.

The line for the food was a bit long, but as Keith pointed out that was mostly due to the gluttony and sort of selfish behavior of other athletes. People were coming out of the food tent with pizza box tops loaded down with two and three layers of plates. When we went back to the food tent at about 4:30, there was hardly a line, and best of all there was still plenty of food left. I'd like to see that happen at any other race! I've read on here and experienced first hand finishing a race only to find not only all the food gone, but all the water as well!! I have absolutely no complaints about the food situation at Timberman. They even had some great homemade ice cream and the volunteers were cheerful even at the end of a very long day!

The only suggestion I would make would be to somehow find a way to do awards first and then figure out the Clearwater spots. There seemed to be a bit of confusion in the awards tent surrounding the handling of the roll down spots. Meanwhile I noticed that many of the participants waiting for the awards got frustrated, especially those with small kids.

All in all though this was a fantastic race. Every aspect of the race was managed with obvious attention to detail. The bike course was beautiful, difficult as hell and really really a fun course with plenty of police and volunteers to keep things running smoothly. The run course had plenty of shade, very much appreciated as the day had gotten pretty warm!

I've been to several east coast races and haven't had much to complain about at any of them. But I would definitely say that this was one of the top two on our list and definitely one we will be doing again next year!

KJ

Aug 19, 08 6:21

Post #7 of 61 (1629 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [lesson989] [In reply to]	Can't Post

we've already decided to do the slots after awards next year, and totally agree with your thoughts on it:)

TimBikeToo

Aug 19, 08 6:22

Post #8 of 61 (1625 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've yet to race Timberman but I have friends who have and they love it. I'm curious though, do you think it would have been better to break up your 84 porta potties differently? To me it seems like a near 50/50 split b/t site and course is a bit too much for the course. Granted those used during the race are arguably more important. I was thinking maybe 54 at site and 30 on course. With 1500+ athletes on Sunday, that reduces the pre-race ratio from 34:1 to 28:1. My basic premise is that porta pottie use pre-race is slight >1x/athelete while on course use is <1/athlete.

With 30 for the course, you could do 4x2 on the bike course, 2 in transition and 10x2 on the run. Like I said earlier, I have never done the race, have no idea of the logisitcs, and certainly am not a RD. It was just a thought...it wouldn't cost you any more and would actually be easier for the porta pottie vendor you use.

All the best,
-tim

T3

Aug 19, 08 6:23

Post #9 of 61 (1618 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Awesome event. Congrats to KJ not just for putting on a great weekend of tri, but for enabling the dudes at bike security to still be smiling and thanking each departing race participant for coming to Timberman....You have got to be doing alot of things right behind the scenes to get the kind of fantastic volunteer support and attitude late in the race day. Appreciation was everywhere...The aid stations are always a trip and something to smile about on a very tough course. Yeah the food line was long, so I dropped $3 at the no wait local FD BBQ tent and grabbed a burger fresh off the grill. Best donation I made this year. Thanks for the committment to excellence Keith.
_
_____________________________________________
"Nothing reveals so much about us as how we play the games we play". Q
www.jstriclub.org

Large

Aug 19, 08 6:34

Post #10 of 61 (1586 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Frankthetank] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This was my fourth Timberman, and in my opinion, this is a top-notch event that gets better every year. The organization, the atmosphere, the attention to detail, and the ability/willingness of the staff and volunteers to improvise when things don't go as planned, always impress me. Yes, the line for food was long, but probably due in part to the obscene amounts of food that some people were taking. (Really, just because it's free, does everyone need to take 2-3 times their share? Honestly, it was disgusting and embarassing to watch.)

But, when the food line did get long, volunteers started bringing food out to those who were waiting. I thought this was great, and the pizza they gave me was still hot! Plus, I got to chat with some great folks while I was waiting. Personally, I'd like to see more bathrooms at Ellacoya and less on the course, but I imagine the ones on the course are to keep participants from using the side of the road, people's lawns, etc. (which I saw even despite the large number of available bathrooms.) This is one of the things a person needs to plan around. Don't wait until the last minute with everyone else.

While I do love the post-race activities, what brings me back are the professional way in which the race is run, the quality of the course, and the support that is available out there. Once again, all of those things were superb this year. Keep up the good work Keith! I'll be back again next year to do at least 2 more Endorfun events.

Large

Aug 19, 08 6:39

Post #11 of 61 (1577 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Large] [In reply to]	Can't Post

...and the huge supply of sponges and the pile of crushed ice on the run course were a godsend. I was in a late wave, and these things saved my day. Even late in the race, there were plenty out there.

diva

Aug 19, 08 6:50

Post #12 of 61 (1564 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Large] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This was my first half iron. I had done Keith's race in Galveston last year. Timberman exceeded my expectations. The venue was beautiful. The beach start with the parachute guys was novel and fun. As far as the port-a-potties, there are always lines for them. There were more on the course than I have ever seen before. The aid stations were top notch. I particularly like the station on the run with the mound of "snow" and kids handing out snowballs as I ran by.

The food line was so long, I didn't even attempt it. I did see people loading up giant pizza box tops with food and it did seem rather excessive when there were hundreds in line behind them. Probably just need a different lay out. I ate at Fratelli's that evening and if they did that buffet, I'm sure it was stellar for those who got up there.

Keith does a great job. Galveston has improved immensely since he took it over. The races venues are very different but both good. I loved the Timberman run course because it actually went through neighborhoods. The people out on the course spectating and volunteering were very inspiring. Every time I felt like crap, someone would shout encouragement or give me a beautiful smile. The Galveston run course is not that personal since it is not through a residential area.

The sponges were super. Parking was good for so many cars. No complaints. I traveled all the way from Texas for this race and I would do it again.

RandyS

Aug 19, 08 6:53

Post #13 of 61 (1560 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This was my first Tiberman and I was very impressed. I was also disappointed in the porta-potty & food lines but experience has taught me how to deal with that.

There are always a couple of porta-potties with no lines if you are willing to do a 1/2 mile jog to get there. I usually bike or jog the first mile of the run course the day before to find out where the first set of bathrooms are located. On the morning of the race I run towards the porta-potties as my warm-up. A five minute jog loosens the muscles and allows me to use the rest room with no line.

I think the idea of the food court with multiple options is the way to go. I waited for my wife to finish and recover a bit before getting in the line--my mistake. I just opted to get the free beer, paid for an ice cream and packed up. I was not that desparate for free food. Taking the bus to GunStock wasn't bad.

The unexpected things that I loved about the race: ICE AND SNOW on the run course, plenty of buoys on the swim course (I could always sight even when heading into the sun), swim waves that were not overly huge (my AG was split into 2 waves), great hat & long-sleeve 'tech fabric' shirt (that's easily $50), several bike course officials (I saw very little drafting--pleasant surprise for a race that size) and a station to get pre- and post-race water for your bike bottles. I could go on and on but you get the idea. If IM would design races like this (focusing on quality and less pomp/circumstance/frustration), the sport would be better off.

J@start-tri

Aug 19, 08 6:55

Post #14 of 61 (1555 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Large] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think that this year's race was awesome. Well done KJ for another great event!
The food was great and the volunteers who came along the line with pizza and water helped with the wait.
Thanks to all the volunteers and those massage guys do an awesome job.
I'm fully on-board with the re-fillable waterbottle idea. As a suggestion for next year, maybe another water station close to the med tent / finish area etc.? maybe there was one there but I didn't see it & ended up working my way around transition, through the stands and across the run track. Could be I just went the wrong way...walk helped the legs recover a bit anyway.

Thanks again KJ.

bpq

Aug 19, 08 7:26

Post #15 of 61 (1515 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Keith

Didn't race this year, but got a great perspective on things from the sherpa's perspective. Generally people are quick to blame you for things that are out of your control, so let me be the first to congatulate you on arranging for perfect weather. :-)

This year's race was world class and, despite a little wait for grub (lesson: be faster or bring your own snacks), everthing looked smooth and polished. All the hard work and attention to detail showed.

Thanks and already looking forward to next year.

BQ
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit - A wise man does not urinate against the wind.

BarryP

Aug 19, 08 7:55

Post #16 of 61 (1461 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Any chance the swim could be done in reverse? I felt like I was staring into the sun during the entire 2nd leg. Or maybe the out and back can be farther with a shorter middle leg. I did another race where they reversed it the following year and it mae all the difference in the world.

I 2nd everything else the others said. Great race. I wish the food line was shorter. IM personal O, I'd rather get to the food quickly and have it less tastey. I grabbed a soda, a cookie, and 4 slices of pizza and that was it. I gave away my cookie and a slice to random people (there was no way in hell I was going to throw it away with a line like that).
______________________________________________

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-Running Coach

RunTraining articles here:
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or you can search Runtraining## where ## is a number from 1-16.

Large

Aug 19, 08 7:59

Post #17 of 61 (1450 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [RandyS] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

There are always a couple of porta-potties with no lines if you are willing to do a 1/2 mile jog to get there. I usually bike or jog the first mile of the run course the day before to find out where the first set of bathrooms are located. On the morning of the race I run towards the porta-potties as my warm-up. A five minute jog loosens the muscles and allows me to use the rest room with no line.

Damn. Why didn't I think of this? There were two right at the beginning of the run course. Duh.

william

Aug 19, 08 8:39

Post #18 of 61 (1410 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [leggett24] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This was my second year racing and I thought it would be hard to top last year, but somehow you managed to do it. Everything was great and I agree that you always seem to give us more than our money's worth. Awesome course, volunteer support, post race food, parking, access, organization, shirt...you name it. This is a favorite of mine and I'll keep coming back and bringing others with me. Thanks for putting on a spectacular race.

chainpin

Aug 19, 08 9:10

Post #19 of 61 (1363 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [william] [In reply to]	Can't Post

4th Tman for me. I thought things went very well. I had parked at Gunstock and had no problems getting to and from the site at all. I also thought the porta potties went really quickly. Maybe one idea is to go with athlete only lines in the morning and make the spectators wait a little longer. I do agree that the food line was too long, I'm fine with just pizza!! And to those a-holes that I saw with stupid amounts of food--and you know who you are--cut the bush league shit would yeah!

The only other feedback I will give--and it's an important safety issue--is in regards to the sharp downhill 90deg left turn on the bike course (Leavett Rd I believe). I have seen people in past races go too fast into the corner and hit the ground, however, this time it looked like someone crashed trying to go up the hill on the return segment. The woman was down on what looked like a back board with a neck brace, right behind the cones at the intersection of the two roads. The crazy thing is that nobody knew there was a racer down right there until you were literally inches away from her. Given that more people will bite it on this turn in the future, it might make sense to get some kind of brighly colored sign that says, RACER DOWN, that the volunteers at that turn can hold up to warn people. Another idea would be to use red flags, like they do for motorcross. I took the corner aggressively, but had I known a body was right there behind the cones I would have taken it much much slower. Any word on the woman?

"Capitalism is tough on the participants that get beat by it."
Crapola

KJ

Aug 19, 08 9:41

Post #20 of 61 (1323 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [BarryP] [In reply to]	Can't Post

It's tough to do the swim in reverse, unless you want to run the .25miles from swim finish to the transition

We've actually tried to figure out a way to start on the boat launch, and finish right to the right of the river. Then, you'd be right in transtion. The problem is the water is REALLY shallow there, for about 100 yds. You'd literally have to walk the last 100 yds into transition, and it's rocky there as well.

I know about the sun, but there are limited options.

schroeder

Aug 19, 08 9:58

Post #21 of 61 (1294 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Frankthetank] [In reply to]	Can't Post

maybe I have been spoiled with other races

KJ puts on a great race so I'm curious, which races have you been better spoiled?

bmas

Aug 19, 08 10:06

Post #22 of 61 (1284 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [Frankthetank] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Love the event and agree that it's the attention to detail that makes it so great.

Last year, KJ announced that the entire bike course had been swept - not once but twice and by two different companies. Now that's the kind of detail that makes a great event.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"Every time I see someone on a bicycle, I fear less for the future of the human race." HG Wells

KJ

Aug 19, 08 11:48

Post #23 of 61 (1182 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [bmas] [In reply to]	Can't Post

same this year, except it was swept 3 times. The contractor doing the work on 106 swept 106. Then, Pike Paving swept the course from Gilford on. Gilford DPW swept Gilford, and then Clairmont Sweeping swept the course again Saturday....

I'd be really curious to hear which races you've been more spoiled at as well. I have a really hard time believing there are events out there that do more than us, but everyone has differing opinions on this....

bpq

Aug 19, 08 11:55

Post #24 of 61 (1174 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I'd be really curious to hear which races you've been more spoiled at as well. I have a really hard time believing there are events out there that do more than us, but everyone has differing opinions on this....

Timberman is on a very short list of my best-of-the-US races so this is not a knock at all, but IMHO other races that do as much or more would be Wildflower, Ralphs (Ironman Cali 70.3) and... umm... maybe... actually, that's all I got. Lobsterman might be close.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit - A wise man does not urinate against the wind.

chainpin

Aug 19, 08 12:12

Post #25 of 61 (1156 views)

Re: Timberman reviews [KJ] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

The TYR swag this year was a nice "extra!"

"Capitalism is tough on the participants that get beat by it."
Crapola

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