Bike Shops
Coaches
Fitters
Race Calendar
*NEW* Running Stores
Stack & Reach
Training Log
Triathlon Clubs
MAIN
INDEX
RULES &
LEGEND
LOG
IN
Search
this forum
this category
all forums
for
All words
Any words
Whole Phrase
(
options
)
Newsletter Signup
Slowtwitch Forums
:
Triathlon Forum
:
Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman?
1
2
View All
Tri Forum
Classifieds
Lavender Room
Jobs
The Womens
Print Thread
Red Devil
Nov 15, 09 17:59
Post #1 of 26 (1137 views)
Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman?
Can't Post
Personally, I am sick of all the drafting posts but figured I would ask a question.
Way back when the first Ironman was created/raced was drafting legal? I know there weren't any governing bodies to make rules but I was just curious to see if there were any gentlemen agreements in regards to drafting?
---------------------------
My Website
HEDmafia.com
Team First Endurance
fishgo
Nov 15, 09 18:03
Post #2 of 26 (1130 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Red Devil]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Why do you think the leaders stayed sooooo close behind the camera van?
greg'n
Nov 15, 09 18:07
Post #3 of 26 (1119 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [fishgo]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
What camera van was that?
fishgo
Nov 15, 09 18:12
Post #4 of 26 (1101 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [greg'n]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Good point.
Frank Day
Nov 15, 09 18:39
Post #5 of 26 (1047 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Red Devil]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
Personally, I am sick of all the drafting posts but figured I would ask a question.
Way back when the first Ironman was created/raced was drafting legal? I know there weren't any governing bodies to make rules but I was just curious to see if there were any gentlemen agreements in regards to drafting?
Well, I was in the first Ironman and I can assure you that none of us even understood the concept of drafting. Further, we would have had no issue with riding next to each other as most of us were runners and that is how we ran. Of course, this didn't happen either as we were so spread apart we were rarely in view of another competitor. The only agreement was we were to do the course by ourselves and follow all the traffic laws. I had someone run with me after the bike and I didn't see it as "cheating" as I still had to put one leg in front of the other. Such conduct was not prohibited in the Honolulu marathon. When I ran out of energy that person was of no assistance at all other than he may have made the order for the big coke for me when we stopped at McDonalds. It was not until John Howard showed up a few years later drafting off a car (as I understand it) and this turned into a real race that some of these issues started to arise.
I can see strictly enforcing the rules, as they have evolved, for those who are actually racing. However, I am not sure I see what the problem is for those who are just "doing" the event (TNT anyone?) other than some of you want to feel superior to others.
Frank, Inventor of PowerCranks
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
To be a top ten finisher in the Ironman World Championships with a time of 16:30 or so is easy. . . as long as do the first one.
Logan D Dog
Nov 15, 09 18:42
Post #6 of 26 (1036 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Red Devil]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
of course it was illegal.
use the search function, you can read all the too crowded, too much drafting, etc., etc. posts that appeared the first time the old BB appeared. it was all just out there in the air before ST existed.
Oh my!
R10C
Nov 15, 09 18:50
Post #7 of 26 (1014 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Red Devil]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Who cares it is not currently legal...shit, at the first IM I am sure that steroids were legal - they are not now and that is all that matters today.
----------------------------------------------------------
f.k.a - Record9, Record9ti Record10, Record10ti, Record10Carbon, but not SuperRecord11 as there are no bar ends.
....
Nov 15, 09 19:08
Post #8 of 26 (960 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Red Devil]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
iPods were illegal too.
sevans
Nov 15, 09 19:15
Post #9 of 26 (945 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Frank Day]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I can see strictly enforcing the rules, as they have evolved, for those who are actually racing. However, I am not sure I see what the problem is for those who are just "doing" the event (TNT anyone?) other than some of you want to feel superior to others.
Where do you draw the line though? What about someone who is really slow but is 'racing' for a PR (not just out cruising to the finish)? Or a person who is pretty fit but has no chance in hell of placing in the race? I think it would leave too much of a gray area to have different rules based on subjective criteria.
gholmes
Nov 15, 09 19:24
Post #10 of 26 (914 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Francois]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
iPods were illegal too.
funny... Were sony walkmans out then? guess not until the 80's so how about transistor radios? walkie talkies...
gamebofh
Nov 15, 09 19:34
Post #11 of 26 (893 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gholmes]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Have you ever seen a portable 8 track player?
(I actually have. It was a scary sight. ;) )
-Jot
....
Nov 15, 09 19:50
Post #12 of 26 (861 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gholmes]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
gholmes
Nov 15, 09 19:51
Post #13 of 26 (858 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gamebofh]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
Have you ever seen a portable 8 track player?
(I actually have. It was a scary sight. ;) )
-Jot
yep I had one.. I also still have my quadraphonic 8 track player and radio shack quadraphonic amplifier.
i had 8 track in my car then cassette... you can tell I'm old....
Greatest quadraphonic 8 track music(discrete) were some tapes by hugo montenegro awesome affects(late 70's).
I have a sly and family stone quad 8-track thats great too(they sucked live but the studio made them sound great lots of instrumentation).
Heck I even have a Cheech and Chong Wedding album 8 track tape still.
Only problem by todays standards lots of noise(no dolby noise reduction and of course tape and not metal tape and not digital like today).
gholmes
Nov 15, 09 19:53
Post #14 of 26 (853 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Francois]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
now we are talking get that base thump going get some power boost(bet you can get 20 watts boost on that thing)
gamebofh
Nov 15, 09 20:00
Post #15 of 26 (837 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gholmes]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
I say this in the fondest of all possible ways:
You sir, are a complete dork. :)
I am not making a single bit of this up: I saw a portable 8 track player in
the lab of a Silicon Valley company in the early 2000's. Could not believe
it. Turns out it was in fact owned by the guy that had the green van with
the macrame curtains. You have to admire the dedication to dorkiness.
-Jot
gholmes
Nov 15, 09 22:05
Post #16 of 26 (762 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gamebofh]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
I say this in the fondest of all possible ways:
You sir, are a complete dork. :)
I am not making a single bit of this up: I saw a portable 8 track player in
the lab of a Silicon Valley company in the early 2000's. Could not believe
it. Turns out it was in fact owned by the guy that had the green van with
the macrame curtains. You have to admire the dedication to dorkiness.
-Jot
Not a dork just old..I was in high school back in the 70's 8 track was the thing in the early 70's, cassette tapes were getting there dolby noise reduction helped the hiss as did metal oxide tapes,
I still have my quad 8 track but its been gathering dust for a long long time...too noisy too much hiss.. now its all done with surround sound 7.3 for movies although the beatles love cd came with a dvd
encoded which can provide multichannel audio. there were some great experimental quadraphonic music back then with sound going around the room different instruments front left,rear,right moving like you were setting in the band or sounds from the outside world was pretty cool back then.
Of course most of time listened to cheech and chong.
There really was a portable 8 track player back then was about the size of a small fat dvd player(non portable) I guess.
Quad was big in early 70's discrete with 8 track tapes( normall 8 track gave you 4 audio tracks of stereo(2 for each one) quad you only had 2 audito tracks using 4 each.
Boudreaux
Nov 16, 09 3:44
Post #17 of 26 (669 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Frank Day]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Well, I was in the first Ironman
for some odd reason, I didn't know that, Frank.
don't know if I love you or hate you...
thanks.
"you know, aero trumps training ;-) "
R10C 10/09
scorpio516
Nov 16, 09 7:25
Post #18 of 26 (504 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [gholmes]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
iPods were illegal too.
funny... Were sony walkmans out then?
Not quite. First IM was in Fed 78, the walkman came out July of 79 ;) . The first portable cassette player came out in 72, but we all know it was the walkman that changed everything...
gholmes
Nov 16, 09 7:48
Post #19 of 26 (472 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [scorpio516]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
iPods were illegal too.
funny... Were sony walkmans out then?
Not quite. First IM was in Fed 78, the walkman came out July of 79 ;) . The first portable cassette player came out in 72, but we all know it was the walkman that changed everything...
Depends on what you mean by portable... if your talking size of walkman then maybe but I had a cassete player/recorder that could be powered by batteries or plugged in few years before that.
it was about the size of a school book maybe smaller.
I got it for christmas along with a beatles revolver and abby road cassette.
I recorded audio from the first tv broadcast of the beatles movie HELP using itl(not sure when that was)
I used the recorder to record broadcast coverage from television of apollo 13. Have hours of audio on old cassetes from that coverage that was april 1970.
I still remember as a 14 year old this one part during splashdown and you can hear these sailors in the back ground saying "G..damn did you see that M...F..." of course as a 14 year old that was
a big deal to hear words like that on television as this was before cable and hbo...Late night tv was just a test pattern until morning.
Before that I had this small reel to reel recorder from montgomery ward I think I taped Winston Chirchills funeral coverage and JFK funeral but not sure whatever happened
to those tapes probably crumbled by now. it was "portable" but not by todays standards.
)
Frank Day
Nov 16, 09 8:01
Post #20 of 26 (449 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [sevans]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
I can see strictly enforcing the rules, as they have evolved, for those who are actually racing. However, I am not sure I see what the problem is for those who are just "doing" the event (TNT anyone?) other than some of you want to feel superior to others.
Where do you draw the line though? What about someone who is really slow but is 'racing' for a PR (not just out cruising to the finish)? Or a person who is pretty fit but has no chance in hell of placing in the race? I think it would leave too much of a gray area to have different rules based on subjective criteria.
Unless someone is over 60 yo anyone taking over 10.5-11 hours is doing the race for personal reasons and not racing to win, even their age group. Further, even full on drafting could probably save, at best 15 minutes. If someone needs that 15 minutes to boost their little ego it seems like it is their problem, not yours. Why get worked up about it?
While the rules should apply to all, if I were a RD I would dedicate my limited marshalling resources at trying to police the pointy end of the race, where the people are actually racing, than trying to police the unwashed masses. And, if I were a competitor, and not going for the win, I would spend more time worrying about my own performance and less time worrying about what others are doing.
Frank, Inventor of PowerCranks
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
To be a top ten finisher in the Ironman World Championships with a time of 16:30 or so is easy. . . as long as do the first one.
Frank Day
Nov 16, 09 8:13
Post #21 of 26 (427 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [scorpio516]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
In Reply To:
iPods were illegal too.
funny... Were sony walkmans out then?
Not quite. First IM was in Fed 78, the walkman came out July of 79 ;) . The first portable cassette player came out in 72, but we all know it was the walkman that changed everything...
In '78 I had a transistor radio that was made for runners that I used to both running and commuting on my bike. It was in a sock like holder that you used to put around the back of your neck. The radio was in one side and the batteries went in the other so it was balanced and there was a small speaker on each side of the neck under each ear. Had a very nice sound, didn't have to be turned up real loud to hear, and one didn't have to carry anything in the hands. It was on this radio that I heard the announcement of the event, when commuting on my bike, that eventually led to my doing it a couple of weeks later. I don't think I actually used it during the race but I would not have thought twice about doing so as I loved that little thing.
BTW, on my ride yesterday I saw an older lady out walking with what looked like an original Walkman cassette tape recorder. Now, that is somebody getting full value from that piece of equipment.
Frank, Inventor of PowerCranks
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
To be a top ten finisher in the Ironman World Championships with a time of 16:30 or so is easy. . . as long as do the first one.
xraycharlie
Nov 16, 09 8:16
Post #22 of 26 (419 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Francois]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
iPods were illegal too.
With good reason, too. The damage to the space/time continuum could have been severe.
-----
Over 900 days bike crash free.
....
Nov 16, 09 9:09
Post #23 of 26 (345 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [xraycharlie]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
Only if they can reach the speed of 88mph
Andrew Coggan
Nov 16, 09 9:26
Post #24 of 26 (311 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Frank Day]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
I was in the first Ironman and I can assure you that none of us even understood the concept of drafting.
No comment. ;-)
xraycharlie
Nov 16, 09 10:11
Post #25 of 26 (221 views)
Re: Was drafting legal at the 1st ever Ironman? [Francois]
[
In reply to
]
Can't Post
In Reply To:
Only if they can reach the speed of 88mph
Hence the importance of not drafting.
-----
Over 900 days bike crash free.
1
2
View All
Print Thread
Are equipment rules important?
What organization's rules do you seek to comply with before you purchase bikes, wetsuits, etc.?
UCI
USA Cycling
UCI/USAC
WTC
USAT
WTC/USAT
ITU
All
None
MAIN
RULES &
LOG
