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phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st)

dawhead

Oct 16, 09 20:23

Post #1 of 22 (856 views)

phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st)	Can't Post

November 1st, leave Cadence by 08:00. 66miles. 13 of the hardest hills in the area, with the hardest in the last 10 miles (including Port Royal, La Collina and the Manayunk Wall (Lyceum)). More strung out for the first 35 miles, then it will hit you over the head :)

Details at: http://colinsandbergevents.blogspot.com/

Not affiliated with the ride - I did it in 2007 and will likely do it again this year. Colin Sandberg (Capt. Insano) was my coach once. He has also finished 2nd at the Pittsburgh Dirty Dozen at least once. You don't have to be super-hardened to do this event, because we really do regroup at the top of the hills, and the pace between them is super-relaxed. You do need to be able to ride the hills though.

(This post was edited by dawhead on Oct 17, 09 12:10)

roadhouse

Oct 16, 09 21:51

Post #2 of 22 (841 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

there was a group of riders from here in houston known as the dirty dozen from years and years ago, late 80's to sometime in the 90's, to which they rode from houston to austin (190 miles, one day and then back the next every weekend or other) which were known as the dirty dozen. not trying to be rude at all but from what i've heard of them, your ride might want to consider a different name..
It's not about the bike, it's just along for the ride.

(This post was edited by roadhouse on Oct 16, 09 21:51)

KINGMurphy'sLaw

Oct 17, 09 5:27

Post #3 of 22 (779 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [roadhouse] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Yes, and there was once a movie, LONG before your friends from Houston thought of the name for their group, called the Dirty Dozen.

So, some guys nobody has ever heard of, who have nothing better to do on the weekends than ride back and forth do not have a trademark or patent on the name Dirty Dozen.
Get over yourself.

float , hammer , and jog

*** On hiatus from 11/1/09 - 4/1/10 ***

dawhead

Oct 17, 09 5:31

Post #4 of 22 (776 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [roadhouse] [In reply to]	Can't Post

this ride is named after the pittsburgh dirty dozen, (http://www.dannychew.com/dd.html) which has been going on since 1983. the philadelphia version's organizer went to college in Pittsburgh, and rode the PiDD many times. the PiDD was started by Danny Chew, who will likely be happy to take on anyone when it comes to riding long and/or difficult rides.

(This post was edited by dawhead on Oct 17, 09 12:11)

Bob Loblaw

Oct 17, 09 6:27

Post #5 of 22 (754 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To:

the PiDD was started...

so, is that pronounced, P-diddy?

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thanks for the announcement.
most years i'd be in... training for the marathon has made my bike fitness something of a joke lately.
---------------------------------
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http://positivesplits.blogspot.com

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bikerbrian

Oct 17, 09 18:59

Post #6 of 22 (691 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [Bob Loblaw] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I've done the original Dirty Dozen ride in Pittsburgh. I wasn't aware there were hills in Phila.

"Oh you hate your job? There's a support group for that, it's called EVERYBODY and they meet at the bar."

marsteller

Oct 18, 09 6:50

Post #7 of 22 (655 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

This sounds pretty fun! Might have to show up for this one.

I've run up port royal many times, and only rode my bike up it a few times. Hopefully it's not raining out that day, or you hit a cobble the wrong way and smack. Once you go down there's no starting back up that thing!

jkenny5150

Oct 18, 09 8:49

Post #8 of 22 (632 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

It looks like they aren't really trying to avoid traffic on this route (not a new problem for Cadence). FWIW, I could make a much more difficult route with much less traffic. They don't do Valley Forge Mountain or Diamondrock, which are both tougher than La Collina - I'd be curious to see the profile information superimposed. There are lots of tough hills just to the west of where the route turns around too - Whitehorse Rd., Yellow Springs, Horshoe Trail, etc.

Anyway, I'll consider doing the (ride or race?) if I'm around that weekend. Let me know if you'll be there.
________________________________________________
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dawhead

Oct 18, 09 15:31

Post #9 of 22 (600 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [jkenny5150] [In reply to]	Can't Post

originally, this was really supposed to be an urban/ex-urban ride, much like the one in pittsburgh. that pretty much guarantees thats its going to be on the NW side of the city - the south, east and north are not known for their hills. however, i was actually pretty suprised that colin added those two hills out near VF - it seems out of the way and out of character. but so be it, and i haven't ridden jug hollow so i'll be intrigued to see what it holds.

whitehorse? yellow springs? come on mr kenny, you cannot be serious - though its true that i've never done WH from the phoenixville side. its true that if you wanted to go steep & hard over and over then going further north and west would be good. horseshoe certainly has some good climbs, and there are more (and steeper) as you get closer to French Creek. but i don't think that was quite the intent of the dirty dozen though. i will be very interested to see bryn treffen - when colin did a reconaissance ride last year, i recall that he felt that this was probably the hardest of all. i also hate the righters mill rd climb that has a ford crossing at the bottom - too dangerous for my taste (even more so than port royal).

i plan to be there barring any further mishaps. btw, not sure which hill you mean by "VF Mountain". i've not ridden anything in the VF area that is remotely as hard as la collina.

jkenny5150

Oct 18, 09 20:37

Post #10 of 22 (563 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I think a lot of riders are skewed toward liking the rides and hills closer to the City (I guess because that's where most people live). I don't understand why more people don't ride out west from VF, especially on the weekends. Riding around the city sucks. There are many many hills better than the Manayunk hills out west... some up north in Montgomery County too.

I actually rode Jug Hollow and Valley Rd. today. Jug Hollow is pretty similar to Country Club Rd. except it's a little longer and not quite as steep. It is a little more isolated that Diamondrock and Country Club though. Valley Rd. is a pretty challenging climb that I had never done before. The only problem with that one is that you have to go over Lancaster Avenue and then ride around the main line when you're done. I think Diamondrock is tougher than both Valley and Jug Hollow due to its steepness.

VF Mountain would be either Diamondrock, Welsh Valley, Paul Lemen, Jug Hollow/Country Club. All of these roads lead to the top of what is considered VF Mountain. I wasn't impressed with La Collina and the profile shows that it's not as tough as these VF climbs. I was serious with the Yellow Springs, etc. Yellow Springs/Horshoe Trail out to French Creek is one of the toughest rides you can do. One of my favorite climbs is Yellow Springs where it parallels the turnpike and then crosses over it. Maybe that's a little far out if they were looking to keep it under 70 miles... although you could replace some of the Conshy hills if you did this instead.
________________________________________________
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www.enduranceranch.com
www.finisinc.com - 20% discount code - "openwater"

dawhead

Oct 19, 09 6:07

Post #11 of 22 (525 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [jkenny5150] [In reply to]	Can't Post

i always take horseshoe/yellow springs back from French Creek, and its certainly a challenging ride, especially if its the second half a century. i've never ridden out in that direction - i generally take yellow springs/pikeland/rt 100/harmonyville. my list of hardest climbs out there would probably be

pikeland road where it becomes clove mill road ("the hill with two churches"), from the south-east
county park road, off rt. 23 by warwick county park, from the north. actually, taking this from the south at iron bridge road is much worse but i've never ridden it.
hill camp road, on the east side of french creek. its not that steep for the most part but it does go on; from the south (from the map St. Peter's road, next to it, is harder)
coldsprings road, from black matt/temple road to st. peter's road (north to south). starts easy, ends up much much harder.

finally, although its not at all steep, the only thing in this area that remotely (and i do mean remotely) resembles climbs in the catskills or adirondacks: shed road in FC state park (north to south). almost no traffic, nice new asphalt about 2 years ago. 2 miles of yummy 4.7% goodness, in the woods.

diamondrock does indeed look nasty. i ride by it a *lot* (on yellow springs), but have never turned up it. i'll have to give that a try at some point.

jkenny5150

Oct 19, 09 20:21

Post #12 of 22 (462 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I try to stay off Rt. 100. As you know, I don't particularly enjoy the traffic.
Pikeland is a good climb, but the pavement is a little rough.
County Park Rd. is my favorite in the area. I put more weight on grade as opposed to length. This road has to be the steepest quarter mile stretch of road within a 50 mile radius.
I've done most of the climbs in that area, but unfortunately they do a lot of chip-seal construction in that area.
I usually descend Shed Rd. It is a very long descent where you can hold a lot of speed, but still can pedal and generate power. I'll have to try that loop backwards next time.

The other one I'd like to do is the mountain near Morgantown. You ride right past it on the turnpike and there are major and minor roads that run across it (looks like a 600+ ft. climb). Anyone ever ride this one before?
________________________________________________
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www.finisinc.com - 20% discount code - "openwater"

flesh_pile

Oct 28, 09 18:47

Post #13 of 22 (396 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [jkenny5150] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I had been interested in doing this, but I think I will take a pass. Stories have been trickling in from my other team mates who did this last year, and supposedly this is the slowest, longest ride ever. Both riders that I know who did it last year had to turn back before it finished due to time constraints. One of them did 9 hills and 44 miles in five hours and fifteen minutes! With an increase in mileage this year, it will take even longer - probably 8 to 10 hours or more. I can get the same number of hilll intervals into a normal ride and be done in 2 to 3 hours getting a much better workout and staying warm in between the climbs. 60+ junk miles is not something I am willing to devote a whole day to...

jkenny5150

Oct 28, 09 20:07

Post #14 of 22 (380 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [flesh_pile] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Why does it take so long? Are there extremely slow people there that make everyone wait 15 minutes while they climb each hill? The longest hill on this list should take me less than 5 minutes at race effort.
________________________________________________
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www.enduranceranch.com
www.finisinc.com - 20% discount code - "openwater"

flesh_pile

Oct 28, 09 20:29

Post #15 of 22 (376 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [jkenny5150] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I don't think it's the actual hills that slow things up - the difference between the fastest and slowest guys/gals shouldn't be more than a few minutes as they're all pretty short. I think they cruise around at like 10 mph between the hills, getting nice and cold in the process and not really getting a good workout in. If you have the time and you're going to do it as a social ride or challenge for the points, it's probably worth it. If you're looking at doing it for a good workout as well, forget it. As for challenging for points, the guys who did well last year were a pro mountain biker, current pro roadie Tyler Wren (who skipped out really early) and at least one rider who now puts out Domestic Pro level watts/kilo (according to Cogan's Training with Power book) at VO2 max. Who knows who will be there this year though. I'm going to do a solo workout and just take note of some of the climbs on the route that I haven't done before.

sevans

Oct 28, 09 20:45

Post #16 of 22 (370 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [dawhead] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Diamond Rock is brutal. We do repeats on Welsh Valley, that's a good effort (running or biking). Country Club and Whitehorse are good steady efforts, not too steep. Union Hill Rd is a good half mile climb (I live at the bottom of it) that gets steeper near the top. Rees Rd (from Yellow Springs is very steep but not too long. Lots of good climbs in the Phoenixville/VF area.

Tykar

Oct 29, 09 12:43

Post #17 of 22 (309 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [sevans] [In reply to]	Can't Post

I did Welsh Valley, Country Club and North Valley Rd this morning (first time doing Welsh Valley - seems like a great hill for repeats since there is no real traffic). I'm surprised the route has Country Club Rd instead of Diamond Rock. Hitting these hills on the ride this year is a great idea, but it's the reason why the ride will take so long. I had planned on attending, but I'm not sure I can spare 8 hours on Sunday. Should be a good time for those who can make it.

sevans

Oct 31, 09 12:15

Post #18 of 22 (260 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [Tykar] [In reply to]	Can't Post

You have to be careful coming back down Welsh Valley if you're doing repeats. It's easy to hit 40-45 mph on the way down. A friend of mine had a collision last year with a car turning into one of the driveways (both parties were at fault). Make sure to try out Union Hill Rd when these wet leaves clear off the roads.

JM

Oct 31, 09 14:44

Post #19 of 22 (242 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [sevans] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Ah, yes, Union Hill Rd. I have to agree that this hill is pretty difficult to ride a bike up. It has been a while since I was living in that area, so some of the road names are subject to blurring memory.

Not Union Hill, though. On a late spring night in 1985, I spent a wonderful few hours parking with a hot chick at the little pull-off about 1/2 way up. My memory is quite vivid about that.

Just like heaven.

---
"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

sevans

Oct 31, 09 15:24

Post #20 of 22 (233 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [JM] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Unfortunately there's probably a million dollar house where that pull-off used to be.

TimBikeToo

Oct 31, 09 17:52

Post #21 of 22 (215 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [sevans] [In reply to]	Can't Post

Also watch out for deer when decending Welsh Valley (and prob the other roads around VF Mtn). I had deer scare the crap out of me while decending more than once.

-Tim
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JM

Nov 1, 09 4:25

Post #22 of 22 (184 views)

Re: phila. area hardened hill climbers: Dirty Dozen 2009 (Nov 1st) [sevans] [In reply to]	Can't Post

No doubt, and she probably lives there. I do remember it being out there, but when I was back in that area a few years ago, it suddenly seemed downright overdeveloped. Alot of the riding I took for granted got a little crazy with traffic.

---
"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM