The PxX series was never more aero than the p5 in bike to bike. Was only when you added storage to both then it clawed it back.

Thought the ST crowd funded test showed p5x faster than p5?

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IG -frebay | Strava

i thought the aero testing done here by Desertdude, Kiley etc proved the p3x was faster even without loaded up stuff?

Since those days we have had, what, an Argon, trek, canyon as updates?

As an aside, its funny canyon went dual arm aerobars to single mono and trek the opposite way

P5X is a fast bike. The "barge board" as I call it, does a great job of opening a portal the faster you go. I can't see that shaping up so dramatically with a traditional frame.

I'm guessing the riding experience, and even funky style, has kept adoption low. It doesn't handle intuitively, especially in winds and takes some time to dial-in to the language of the bike.

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Agreed. I have a p3X with 80mm Enves on it. In a stiff crosswind it’s touchy. I love all the storage options on it, it’s quite comfortable.

I think most of the really significant gains in the past 5 years have been in clothing, helmets (and clothing/helmets together), and aerobar design (and the resulting positioning).

See Sam Laidlow's Kona course record. SpeedConcept is, fundamentally, over a decade old. Some small changes, but nothing dramatic. Same with the HED wheels - except maybe the super deep back; but that's not really new tech, just a new wheel.

But his position - enabled by newer bars - and the confluence of that position in terms of helmet, head position, race suit, and the interaction of all of those things - tucked head with good helmet directing airflow over fast fabric on a sleeved suit - is the big difference maker.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Im sticking with my cheap, old Felt B series.......;)

We tested a P5x and a P5-6.
The P5x was slower rider off than the P5-6 but faster w/Kiley aboard.

The P3x is not far behind the P5x if you read Cervelo's own marketing. I think they said <2w.

If I wanted a bike that was The Fastest Bike I'd go with a P5. If I wanted a bike that could carry everything for long course racing I'd go with the P3x.

I'd be willing to bet a 5 figured sum that the canyon is not as fast as the cervelos. The Argon is probably a few watts off and the Trek \_O_/ at least for now

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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How far off do you think the P series with tririg front end with AXS wireless VS the P5?

Where does PX fall in all of this? Isn't it stiffer and 9g more aero than the p3x?

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IG -frebay | Strava

IDK for certain. I have done a few consults with pro's who were looking for new rides. I've not hesitated to recommend the P series. My guess, and it's just a guess, is the P series falls between the p5x/p3x and the P5-6.

If I was looking to get back into racing and I wasn't going to buy a used P3x or P5 but buy new, the P series would be on my very short list.

unfortunately I don't have a large disc brake bike only wind tunnel data set like I do for rim brakes. Based on 2023 hours, >90% of my testing hours are using the Gizmo with the rest being at the wind tunnel.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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Isn't the PX just the frameset of the P3x?

I would not hesitate to purchase another P3x or PX frameset and build it up if I was buying a tri bike

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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Did you multiple test riders with a P-series model and have tested by accident with the front brake cable fully exposed as hiw it default comes and same rider set up with the front brake cable routed through the fork and let it come out of the top cap?
I always wanted to know how much difference it makes :-).

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

The bars on his record bike were round aluminum Profile design bars, extended by gluing more round tube into the ends, with PD pads that aren't even made anymore, wrapped in electrical tape on a lark a day or two before the race. Just sayin'.

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PX is:
Split bar like the p5x
16 percent lighter than the P5X frame
8 percent stiffer
9 g more aero than the P3X
15 percent stiffer at the bottom bracket


https://triathlonmagazine.ca/feature/cervelo-launches-p-and-px-series-bikes/

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IG -frebay | Strava

I strongly suspect the difference is entirely cosmetic

I've heard that a regular pencil stuck in the top of your helmet is ~1watt, or the difference between Lemond/Fignon winning the 89Tdf.

You're just quoting marketing material numbers. I think the point of the question was, why would it be more aero if it appears to be a different layup in the same mold?

Yes, but the brake cable is not sticking out of the helmet with nothing else around it. That brake cable sit next to the head tube where airflow is guided around to the legs. That is different from having it sticking on top of your helmet :-).

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

I've tested riders on the P series but not that specifically. Honestly in a testing session that is 2-2.5h long, if the person as never tested before, you're not going to test that.

The reality is even if they have tested before that probably won't even make it on the list as there are (still) bigger fish to fry.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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Thanks, of course I know there is easier low hanging fruit to improve. It was just more of a curiosity of mine as I like to clean that front end of the P-series with routing the brake cable through the fork and just wanted to know if by accident you might have tested it.

Jeroen

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Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands

It also seems like people are dumping them. Been watching them on eBay and in the past three weeks two sold (both well equipped) for $6k, and $5.3k (initially asking $8k+).

I've seen the same. It seems those in the market for a TT/Tri bike may want to be able to use it for both and not just tris.

Here is one currently being bid on at $2750.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
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For USA purposes, there aren't that many TTs where you can't use a beam bike. National Championships, and a few other UCI races. USACycling permits beam bikes. I've seen them in the TT stage of the Valley of the Sun Stage Race, for example.

Aero data on bikes without storage is pretty erroneous even if you're a pro. But the only ones that stripped down aero scores would matter for would be pros at the 70.3 distance and not 95% of amateur racers. If Aero is your number one priority because you think you're "there".

Biggest factor for me remains cost since most front end bikes are "close enough". But once you spend 8k on a bike you keep it for a long time.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

USA cycling requires a double diamond frame for time trials. That’s the rule, but I don’t know how much it’s enforced.

It's not a USACycing rule. Section 11 of the USACycling regs makes no mention of double diamond.

USACycling does have a regulation where they're required to add in UCI regulation for some types of events.

Below was stolen from 2023 Masters Nationals rules.




But for all non-nationals, non National Team selection events, it's not a USA Cycling requirement. You may run into race directors who decide to add it in as their own rule, at their discretion. I've raced against P5Xs and Dimonds in USAC events for sure.

Got it. All
Makes sense. Thanks.

Interestingly, Ceepo have re-released the Shadow, not with the weird fork but the standard one and they've now hidden the front brake cable. It would be great to see some aero figures on the Shadow and the Dimond Mogul/Ikon, just to see whether there is anything to be gained by these frames now that they've had a few iterations in their design. From what has been said here, the Ventum isn't all that slippery so perhaps removing tubes (such as seat tube or seat stays) is slightly overrated (with weight and handling issues - but maybe their application is on flat courses), and the focus should be on optimal tubes or placement thereof, such as the Ku.