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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Saw topic title ā€œhardest racesā€ then body text said ā€œtriā€.

Came to post cyclocross worlds. Pop your dislocated shoulder back in during the race and keep going. Max HR for lots of a race, sure. Two of the three tri disciplines, sure. Bad weather, sure.

Last local cross race I did of amateursā€¦.top ten or so of us laying in pinestraw dry heaving. Canā€™t imagine pros at max for an hour vs ams at 45min.

Or the Barclays/Bigs Backyard. Geez.
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Re: Hardest races? [donm] [ In reply to ]
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Basically the Kona of Duathlon. I've not raced it, but besides Duathlon not being as popular there's a reason only 20 something Americans go over and race Zof each year --- there are many, many people who have done flat IM's or 70.3's that would suffer on that course.

Those that go and do well (Elite or AG) are the real deal even though you'll never or rarely hear of them in major triathlon circles.
Last edited by: EHH2000: Nov 12, 23 20:58
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Not the toughest or longest on any list, but Battle of Waterloo in Michigan is a neat 10 stage triathlon that's on my bucket list.


Your gear stays with you - even in the water, and legs 5-8 look like some real Type II fun.


https://www.trisignup.com/Race/BattleofWaterloo/Page-12
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Re: Hardest races? [EHH2000] [ In reply to ]
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EHH2000 wrote:
Basically the Kona of Duathlon. I've not raced it, but besides Duathlon not being as popular there's a reason only 20 something Americans go over and race Zof each year --- there are many, many people who have done flat IM's or 70.3's that would suffer on that course.


Those that go and do well (Elite or AG) are the real deal even though you'll never or rarely hear of them in major triathlon circles.

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A 15 year old resurrected thread deserves a 30 year old race video..

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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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SavageMan was brutal, a beautiful tough course. If you are considering Duathlons as well I have to go with AmZof Long Course.
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Re: Hardest races? [EHH2000] [ In reply to ]
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EHH2000 wrote:
Not the toughest or longest on any list, but Battle of Waterloo in Michigan is a neat 10 stage triathlon that's on my bucket list.


Your gear stays with you - even in the water, and legs 5-8 look like some real Type II fun.


https://www.trisignup.com/Race/BattleofWaterloo/Page-12

That race looks ridiculously stupidly fun!
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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renorider wrote:
Ok gang-
What triathlons out there are the most beastly? The monster courses? Anywhere in the world, any distance (OK, IM or less).

We'll start with a few that most people know about:
IM Lanzarote
Silverman
Auburn/World's Toughest 1/2

Just recently heard about a race that climbs the Alpe d'Huez (found the site and it's in French...)

What others do you know about?

We've been told the Half Crazy at The Dirty Mitten Gravel Tri is too difficult and that we need to ease it back... buncha babies :)
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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renorider wrote:
Ok gang-
What triathlons out there are the most beastly?

The one you didn't train for...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Hardest races? [Warbird] [ In reply to ]
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The Picnic.

https://wyofile.com/teton-triathlon/
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Re: Hardest races? [Speckled Hen] [ In reply to ]
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May I submit for your consideration....


Formosa Xtreme Triathlon

228km
3.8km river swim against and with strong current
3500m bike elevation; 65km straight hill climbing for the last 65km of the 180km bike
3000m run elevation; entire 44km of the marathon takes place over 2000m altitude
temps when I completed the race: 1 degree celsius at the top; forecast for Nov 17 race this year: -6C. High winds, high humidity/rain
70% DNF rate the first three years of the race

Epic course that includes the swim and a 130km rolling coastal road into prevailing winds before turning onto the EPIC Taiwan KOM bike course. Ride 75% of this course and run the other 25% plus additional section of running that includes 2km up a steep gravel path to the very peak of Mt HeHuanShan.


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Re: Hardest races? [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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Darren325 wrote:


May I submit for your consideration....
Formosa Xtreme Triathlon
Epic course that includes the swim and a 130km rolling coastal road into prevailing winds before turning onto the EPIC Taiwan KOM bike course.


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Now you are talking. I would happily get on a plane with the road bike for this race and it is funny you posted this race as GCN released their latest Taiwan KOM video yesterday.


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Re: Hardest races? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Saw topic title ā€œhardest racesā€ then body text said ā€œtriā€.

Came to post cyclocross worlds. Pop your dislocated shoulder back in during the race and keep going. Max HR for lots of a race, sure. Two of the three tri disciplines, sure. Bad weather, sure.

Last local cross race I did of amateursā€¦.top ten or so of us laying in pinestraw dry heaving. Canā€™t imagine pros at max for an hour vs ams at 45min.

Or the Barclays/Bigs Backyard. Geez.

I have many friends who have "done" marathons (judgement implied) but won't do 5Ks because "they hurt too much" in that you're expected to go fast gun to tape

****

I will submit any variation on The Beer Mile

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: Hardest races? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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TraithlonX both the full and the extreme. The full follows the Fred Whitton sportive route and has several passes between 20% and 33%, including Hardknott Pass (google it) at around 130km into the bike. The run also goes up scafell and back down for about 2000m off elevation. Savage. Harder than Norseman by far.
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Re: Hardest races? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
EHH2000 wrote:
Not the toughest or longest on any list, but Battle of Waterloo in Michigan is a neat 10 stage triathlon that's on my bucket list.


Your gear stays with you - even in the water, and legs 5-8 look like some real Type II fun.


https://www.trisignup.com/Race/BattleofWaterloo/Page-12

That race looks ridiculously stupidly fun!

I've done that race a handful of times, it's lots of fun. Definitely a swimmer/runner race. Most people underestimate it but it's 4+ hours for most. I've gone under 4 hours 3 times, the last time I think I was at the tail end of 4 hours.

They do it every other year, it was held in 2023 so it likely won't be open again until 2025.
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Getting into stupid grounds now but the Triple Brutal ā˜ ļø

7.2 mile lake swim (12 laps)
336 mile bike (12 laps)
Ascent and descent of Yr Wyddfa (Snowdon)
13 Lake Laps (65 miles)

https://www.brutalevents.co.uk/the-brutal-triathlon

Full-time Engineer / Part-time Pro Triathlete
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Last edited by: BenwGoodfellow: Nov 14, 23 7:58
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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There's so many different meaning of what makes one race 'harder' than another. Really any elite world-level race will be very 'hard' to win or compete at. Is it harder to win the ITU world champs or Kona?

Or do we mean the hardest course to finish? It's not a tri but something like Big's Backyard Ultra would have to be the hardest by definition, since only one person can finish by rule.

Even within a small category like IM's there's different ways that a race can be hard. Maryland is very flat and very fast, but that means tucking into your bars and not moving or stopping pedaling for 4-5 hours. Personally I'd consider it 'easier' if there were a few small hills along the course to stretch out and get different muscles firing, even though the total time may be 10 minutes longer.

The difficulty of run courses is basically determined by weather. It's uncommon to see tri's with significant elevation gain on the run, at least to the extent that it's the determining factor. Tri's need to be warm enough for the swim in the morning which makes it pretty common to see high temps for the run in the afternoon (one of the many factors for why IM marathons are so much slower than open).

You could get a pretty reasonable guess at the hardest Mdot races by looking at DNF rates. The cuttoff times are all the same even though the courses are faster or slower.
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Re: Hardest races? [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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mathematics wrote:
There's so many different meaning of what makes one race 'harder' than another. Really any elite world-level race will be very 'hard' to win or compete at. Is it harder to win the ITU world champs or Kona?

Or do we mean the hardest course to finish? It's not a tri but something like Big's Backyard Ultra would have to be the hardest by definition, since only one person can finish by rule.

Even within a small category like IM's there's different ways that a race can be hard. Maryland is very flat and very fast, but that means tucking into your bars and not moving or stopping pedaling for 4-5 hours. Personally I'd consider it 'easier' if there were a few small hills along the course to stretch out and get different muscles firing, even though the total time may be 10 minutes longer.

The difficulty of run courses is basically determined by weather. It's uncommon to see tri's with significant elevation gain on the run, at least to the extent that it's the determining factor. Tri's need to be warm enough for the swim in the morning which makes it pretty common to see high temps for the run in the afternoon (one of the many factors for why IM marathons are so much slower than open).

You could get a pretty reasonable guess at the hardest Mdot races by looking at DNF rates. The cuttoff times are all the same even though the courses are faster or slower.

The OP did not say "hardest to win" so that takes out winning world championships etc.
Within IM....I would not say staying aero for 4-5 hours is particularly hard if you have trained properly for that. Granted, any IM is never easy, but in terms of hardest races, a flat and fast course is surely not going to be up there. (with the same caveats that obviously it is hard to win...but you can ride pretty easily and pretty comfortably to finish a course like Maryland in 17 hours.

Third paragraph...now you are on to something! Formosa Xtreme Triathlon....last year the course had 34C temps at sea level and at the summit it was 8C and the wind was howling to the point it was difficult to stand in sections. Altitude on the run? Start the run at 2000m, never go below that, and finish at 3275m with a fair bit of up and down in between to get over 2000m elevation gain on the run. The previous version of the course (not available now due to landslide conditions and road repair in Taroko Gorge) the run began at 1650m elevation and was straight up except for one 4km descent on switchbacks that was actually harder owing to all the climbing before and after. And then factor in the gradient...the last 14km of the run has a 10km section that averages over 10% and peaks at 27% gradient! This is the uncommon course that you are looking for where it is demonstrably harder than just about any course any where, and amongst the few courses that rival/surpass this level of difficulty, it is certainly in the top 5 if not top 3. It's a beast! Come next year, I can help you with the logistics of the race, and we can test your theory that IM Maryland can be hardest! (I mean that genuinely...it's an epic race and if you love challenges and are fit, it's hugely rewarding.) During the the first 3 years with pandemic restrictions, it has been mainly local athletes and we've had a 70% DNF rate. This year we have more international athletes and we can see how they do.

For me...Kona PR is 10:01 (yes sigh, I know how frustrating that number is) and my FXT time was 15:46 which included 45 minutes getting a new tire and fitting it after I slashed the sidewall at km 12 on the bike. 12 athletes finished under 17hours, and 22 finished overall when the time was extended to 22 hours.
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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I think some of the harder ones were IM Moo & Lake Placid due to the gradients that I'm not used to. One is short and a LOT of hills (Moo) and LP is just that odd long grade that drained me. Of course, Kona has to rank up there due to the heat and humidity + wind. They all suck so not sure which is harder--I'll call it a tie.
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Local 5k
"Homefront 5k"

Perfectly flat.
Horrifying stressful to perform on a short, flat course
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Powerman Zofingen.
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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The Altriman in the French Pyrenees. Less known than its Alps counterpart Embrunman, but way harder!
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Re: Hardest races? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely Canadaman/woman extreme tri at Lac Megantic Quebec! A gem. Very, very hard, and extremely beautiful! https://caxtri.com/en/
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Re: Hardest races? [STeaveA] [ In reply to ]
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STeaveA wrote:
Local 5k
"Homefront 5k"

Perfectly flat.
Horrifying stressful to perform on a short, flat course

Just as I said upthread šŸ‘

****

I was listening to an old episode of Road Dog Podcast earlier this year, and the host, Luis, referred to "road running" [specifically marathons, but I guess we could include HMs, 10Ks, 5Ks] as "street racing" and I said to myself 'Y'know? That sounds kinda badass!!! Punk Rock, if you will - I'm going to start incorporating that phrase/text into my own work'

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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