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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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I’m a recent podcast, David McNamee joked his only interaction with Brit Tri was when they were chasing him to pay for his suit for long course worlds.
So no support, or even really any interest, beyond short course/Olympics.
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [MP1664] [ In reply to ]
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jcbesse wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
Not clear where "here" is (assume UK) but suggesting national federations' sole mission (and thus funding) is solely for the Olympics is simplistic (wrong).
The support that's needed is a governance function: for the pros, endorsing them as worthy GBR reps for the target competition. And that works now: as you say "can't see much changing" (UK).
Last year I wanted to race the pro WT LD champs (after finishing 9h in Roth) and the swiss federation suggested I rather race AG and buy+wear their short distance suit for it, since it was easier than making a pro long distance registration process, which they had no experience with...
Sorry Swiss Triathlon last year didn't want to make the minimal effort but since Huerzeler and Derron were on the WTLDWC start list this year at Ibiza they clearly now have systems in place and made those entries. So perhaps your nudge made them get their act together.
MP1664 wrote:
I’m a recent podcast, David McNamee joked his only interaction with Brit Tri was when they were chasing him to pay for his suit for long course worlds.
So no support, or even really any interest, beyond short course/Olympics.
McNamee has always been a proud and independent Scot. BriTri make it clear what support they won't give; and what they will: licensing, entries and general dealing with WT.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 18, 23 2:12
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [pk] [ In reply to ]
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Iden and Gentle's take on the WT-PTO link up and a bona fide world governing body designated 'World Championships' - shot in Singapore (3 minutes, followed later by Long's insight):





Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 18, 23 10:38
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

Not sure how much the sports are making in direct funds from Netflix, but have to assume it is in the many, many millions

It's a lot less than you would think, and likely to be lower still for something like tri.

For the TDF doc, each of the eight teams involved received 62,000 euro. ASO/French TV each got 250,000 euro.

F1 was significantly bigger.



https://www.essentiallysports.com/...es-drive-to-survive/


Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [fredly] [ In reply to ]
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fredly wrote:
Quote:


Not sure how much the sports are making in direct funds from Netflix, but have to assume it is in the many, many millions


It's a lot less than you would think, and likely to be lower still for something like tri.

For the TDF doc, each of the eight teams involved received 62,000 euro. ASO/French TV each got 250,000 euro.

F1 was significantly bigger.



https://www.essentiallysports.com/...es-drive-to-survive/

The first year of the deals are generally pretty cheat with a lot of incentives. The first year of Drive to Survive actually was a significant risk as Netflix also funded the entire production. And then it was just a hit.

Everyone has been talking about how Rugby has needed a "Drive to Survive" which really Drive to Survive is just another Hard Knocks. Well the 6 Nations get a deal done, people start complaining about the rights fee...and the Welsh and Irish team kick the cameras out of camp...well Rugby will die on the vine for that idiocy.

Unchained was petty legit, fairly certain next year will be worth a bit more.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:

The first year of the deals are generally pretty cheat with a lot of incentives.

This is definitely generally the case, but my understanding is that Drive to Survive is still paying remarkably little to F!, and this is also true for the other sports they're trying to replicate the formula in. The upside of the show was/is so profound in other areas that F! - and everyone else - would probably do it for nothing, and Netflix knows it. Drive To Survive bumped the profile of F1 so significantly that the ESPN race licensing fee alone went from $5m a year to $75m a year, increasing to $90m a year over the course of the deal. For F1, that's the ROI on letting Netflix in, not the $ they get from them directly. For everyone else, that's the ROI they're aspiring to.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: "World Champions (LD)" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Triathlon *has* rainbow bands -- Jordan wore them after winning ITU LD Worlds in 2011.

No.
Triathletes wearing rainbow bands is like pickeball players wearing rainbow bands.
It's completely the wrong sport and it's also trademarked by the UCI.
I haven't seen it recently which is a good thing.
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of comments in threads now on ST mentioning "20 athletes will get a PTO contract". Is there a confirmed source for that, or is it a rumour that have got a life of its own?
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [] [ In reply to ]
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After the conditions in which PTO Asia was raced in Singapore (31 degrees water and air, and 86% humidity) I wonder how PTO and WT are going to square their rules on this.
From the WT Organisers' Manual:
6.3.11 Exceptional Heat Illness Prevention
a) Minimizing exertional heat illness in triathlon:
• The incidence of exertional heat stroke (EHS) varies from event to event and in-
creases with rising ambient temperature and relative humidity.
o Event should be scheduled to avoid extremely hot and humid months, based on
the historical local weather data.
o During summer months all events should be scheduling during the cooler hours
of the days (early morning or late afternoon).

c) Activity modification in high-risk weather conditions:
• Using the WGBT index to assess on-site environmental heat stress at regular in-
tervals and the appropriate announcement of its readings is an important starting
point to decrease the incidence of heat related illness.
• If WBGT index is between 27.9°C - 30°C and 30.1°C - 32.2°C the EHS risk for un-
fit, nonacclimatized individual is high / very high
. Caution should be taken and ath-
letes should be advised of the danger and to increase their normal fluid intake,
limiting intense competition between 30.1°C - 32.2°C WGBT index.
• If WBGT index is above 32.2°C the level for EHS risk is cancelled and uncompen-
sable heat stress exist for all athletes
.
• Difference of local climate and individual heat acclimatization status may allow ac-
tivity at higher levels than outlined above in acclimatized fit and elite athletes.
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [slow_bob] [ In reply to ]
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slow_bob wrote:
Lots of comments in threads now on ST mentioning "20 athletes will get a PTO contract". Is there a confirmed source for that, or is it a rumour that have got a life of its own?

Probably worth listening to the Jack / Sam interview on "how they train" (or whatever it is called now)
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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Ah, thanks!
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [slow_bob] [ In reply to ]
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Email to pro athletes from earlier this year, Sam's appearance on Jack Kelly's podcast, numerous representatives on background.

There will be contracts.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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And 20 is the confirmed number? (Have not been able to listen to the podcast yet, might be clear in that.)
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [slow_bob] [ In reply to ]
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From what I understand it's 16. Most likely 8M, 8W.

The 20 is the number of athletes racing PTO Opens next year.

So breaking that field down, you'd have the 8 under contract. Then it rolls to current PTO rankings, then wild cards, then "up and coming status," and lastly WTCS athletes with sufficient points to be contenders if they decided to race.

Still lots of questions -- value of contracts; prize money; how points will work for the championship series; race dates (October announcement); how the industry decides to react with contracts; is this actually sustainable -- but framework is there for *something*.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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I would think a more balanced prize purse will be part of this considering this year they basically cut the purses for all but 1st. I would think for simple economics and if they race more they still earn similar and if travel costs aren’t on athlete, it’s not that big of a deal I wouldn’t think. We will wait and see but I think now that they have a little foot in the door they can likely re distribute the prize purse better + on “athlete contracts”.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for a great summary @rrheisler. So, not much on officially presented papers yet, but quite some understanding of the concepts for people in the business.
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [slow_bob] [ In reply to ]
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Sam was on pro tri news and then on Jack's show. He explained a lot, some of the things that happened this year and he gave a preview of next.

I even suggest you go back and listen to him 6 months ago and see if he has delivered on what he discussed back then. His message is VERY consistent of what he was saying at the beginning of the year. Their plan has been solidified, had a few bumps along the way.

It is clear not all decisions could be or have been made. For example he points to the athlete board to come up with some proposals. You can see some of the things they will do is in response to how athletes behaved this year.

IMO, if you want a feel of where the PTO is going, listen to their messaging. Everything else is people's opinion and is no less/more valuable than your or mine. People were writing them off less than a month ago. Yet, their CEO has obviously been around the block a few times.

These are exciting times. I can tell you I have spoken to 2 reps at 2 different bike companies and they are VERY excited about PTO and the opportunity it creates for them as the sport possible gains more visibility.

This is a very positive wave for the sports. Let's hope it all works out.
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Re: "World Championship (LD) powered by PTO" [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
After the conditions in which PTO Asia was raced in Singapore (31 degrees water and air, and 86% humidity) I wonder how PTO and WT are going to square their rules on this.
From the WT Organisers' Manual:
6.3.11 Exceptional Heat Illness Prevention
a) Minimizing exertional heat illness in triathlon:
• The incidence of exertional heat stroke (EHS) varies from event to event and in-
creases with rising ambient temperature and relative humidity.
o Event should be scheduled to avoid extremely hot and humid months, based on
the historical local weather data.
o During summer months all events should be scheduling during the cooler hours
of the days (early morning or late afternoon).

c) Activity modification in high-risk weather conditions:
• Using the WGBT index to assess on-site environmental heat stress at regular in-
tervals and the appropriate announcement of its readings is an important starting
point to decrease the incidence of heat related illness.
• If WBGT index is between 27.9°C - 30°C and 30.1°C - 32.2°C the EHS risk for un-
fit, nonacclimatized individual is high / very high
. Caution should be taken and ath-
letes should be advised of the danger and to increase their normal fluid intake,
limiting intense competition between 30.1°C - 32.2°C WGBT index.
• If WBGT index is above 32.2°C the level for EHS risk is cancelled and uncompen-
sable heat stress exist for all athletes
.
• Difference of local climate and individual heat acclimatization status may allow ac-
tivity at higher levels than outlined above in acclimatized fit and elite athletes.

Air temp 31 with humidity 86 is only wet globe 29. World tri wouldn't have changed anything with these races
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Sam was on pro tri news and then on Jack's show. He explained a lot, some of the things that happened this year and he gave a preview of next.
For the announcement spiel from Renouf, with Kelly letting him push this WT/PTO link up without any too long 'Kelly' questions, to start with.
https://www.listennotes.com/...k-kelly-Fo3GwWQiSjq/
Focusing on the PRO aspects (the priority for the PTO) - I'm inferring some detail:
1) Season long race series to determine a world champion in long(er) distance triathlon (and specify LD as 100km)
2) The title 'World Champion' is awarded by the recognised international world governing body (World Triathlon)
3) Recognised (international world governing body) regional championships
4) PTO events adopt WT Rules (implicitly with amendments)
5) All race locations (minimum 6 and to include Singapore but "earlier in the year") will be 3 or 5 year contracts and aiming for consistent months for each location's PTO tour race
6) Fields of 20, maybe 25: contracted top ?16 athletes, plus wild cards for each race
7) Athlete participation encouraged by:
  • Recognition that the PTO races will earn athletes more media exposure, and the derived benefit (especially sponsors / partners/ bonuses)
  • Large prize purse but maybe not at 2023 level (per race) and 1/2/3/4/5 distribution likely amended
  • Top athletes in the world want to compete against their peers - this will assure high SOF for every race
  • Prestige of 'World Championships'
  • Excellent PTO points to keep high in rankings
  • Travel (support) and other compensation (implicitly a fee for racing each race)

8) Rolling 12 month contracts for 16 + 16, maybe, with PTO Ranking as a guide to 'selection'
9) Collins Cup format tbd but will not be same as 2021/22
Initial ST article link: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nship_Tour_8762.html
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 21, 23 14:44
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
Sam was on pro tri news and then on Jack's show. He explained a lot, some of the things that happened this year and he gave a preview of next.

I even suggest you go back and listen to him 6 months ago and see if he has delivered on what he discussed back then. His message is VERY consistent of what he was saying at the beginning of the year. Their plan has been solidified, had a few bumps along the way.

It is clear not all decisions could be or have been made. For example he points to the athlete board to come up with some proposals. You can see some of the things they will do is in response to how athletes behaved this year.

IMO, if you want a feel of where the PTO is going, listen to their messaging. Everything else is people's opinion and is no less/more valuable than your or mine. People were writing them off less than a month ago. Yet, their CEO has obviously been around the block a few times.

These are exciting times. I can tell you I have spoken to 2 reps at 2 different bike companies and they are VERY excited about PTO and the opportunity it creates for them as the sport possible gains more visibility.

This is a very positive wave for the sports. Let's hope it all works out.

I love how he abdicates responsibility to the "athlete board" an body that has no decision making authority and is not representative of even the membership. You can be a "member" of the pto, we need to use that very loosely. They are not members, this is not a representative association. Your ability to even have a vote in the athlete board election is based on "PTO/Moritiz world ranking," and THEN if you're ranked in the top 10 you get a vote equal to 7 votes.

Also does anyone really think shrinking the race fields and bonus pool was an Athlete Board endorsed or proposal? If you believe that. I have a bridge to sell you that leadeth to nowhere.

Athlete board is just there for the business folks to shield itself against the "members" who are just "happy" that there is some extra money floating in the eco-system, even if it is unsustainable...

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: "World Championship (longish distance) powered by PTO" [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
From what I understand it's 16 [under contract]. Most likely 8M, 8W.
The 20 is the number of athletes racing PTO Opens next year.
So breaking that field down, you'd have the 8 under contract. Then it rolls to current PTO rankings, then wild cards, then "up and coming status," and lastly WTCS athletes with sufficient points to be contenders if they decided to race.
Would be good to at least seek clarity on if the field of 20 will comprise 8 PTO contracted athletes, 8 selected on rankings/roll-down and 4 wild cards, or 16 (eg women) contracts.
Dragging this from a new thread (I looked at the possible criteria PTO might use to select to which athletes they offer contracts.
jcgiraSHT wrote:
The contracted athletes must fill several requirements
- Rank in the top 20
- Come from different countries, yet several may come from the US. In that regard, it would be really interesting to know which part of the globe follows PTO the most N. America or Europe and how much does the 'rest of the world ' represent. An idea for a poll, is who would you like to be recruited. Or even more who would you care about even though they are foreigners ; I must confess sport is always more intersesting if you have a dog in the fight.
Have different profiles = it may make no sense to ‘PTO draft’ Long if he is not along a couple of weaker swimmer/stronger rider who can ride with him.
Strong media/socials following (sounds like some influencer who has his own sticky thread)

So i draw a list with 3 main groups for the male athletes as i am not so knowledgeable about women racing

A / Front Pack Swimmers / All around athletes racing from the front WTS types
NEUMANN : ***** young athete who by virtue of having won PTO Europe 2023 should be an automatic qualifier. Yet, he only has this one good PTO result and may drop if he does not have a good race in Nice/ has not solved the problem which prevented him from participating in other races in 2023
KANUTE: *** top US performer
BAEKKEGARD ** no great win but always in the mix, being the 2nd danish athlete is one of his few shortcomings


Other candidates /rotating racers :
Royle - good swimmer who pushes the pace but has not really been a factor this year
Van Riel
Blummenfelt : from his inteviews, it sounds like he may be in for the races scheduled after the Olympics
Brownlee : he may be a great wildcard if he is healthy of course
Kyle Smith


B/ Second swim pack :
DITLEV - he is ranked very high and may be one of the faces needed to represent the TPO
WEST - has a great year, his profile (coming from behind) gives an element of drama/threat to the races.

Other candidates /rotating racers
HEEMERYCK** the Asian race put him in the mix, not a star but it sounds weird if Sam Long or Lionel are in and he is out.
MC NAMEE
MARQUARDT young upcoming US athlete


WEAKER SWIMMER
LONG ****
SANDERS *** he has had a couple of ok PTO races which showed he can still be a factor even if only at the back. He needs a decent result in Lathi to stay in the ranking game.
SKIPPER - not a great middle distance, but he is the only british athlete succeeding on longer distances, he has a following and is not a dull, soft spoken athlete
Again putting him along similar profiles make for a good storyline. The race is long enough and can be boring, so to see who is coming back is often more interesting than the front of the race. As many have commented it is one of the things PTO should work on. They did try to be interested in the race for 4 th place in Singapour

Now i will play advocate for the french guys as if 8 to 10 guys are selected only 1 or 2 can be in.

- LAIDLOW** will figure to the front, controversial, english speaking (which is not the forte of many french athletes), could be a cheaper selection as his stock has somewhat declined
- Denis CHEVROT also had a terrific race coming back from 14 out of 15 to 4th. I am convinced that if Matt Hanson had had the same race, it would have made WAY MORE noise whereas Chevrot did not get mentionned even once in the whole thread. PTO did acknowledge that he was one of the top 10 events from the race in their latest video but it could have been a better storyline on the live show.
- MARGIRIER, pretty much like HEEMERICK. I have him as most improved triathlete of the year by a fair margin ( WEST is next but he was not an unknown last year ) and he has had only good results so far. 70.3 World may show that he is the next Supercycliste (my french version of the german Uberbiker) and put him in the top 10
- MIGNON and CHEVALIER have had bad results in their PTO races and like many athletes Nice WC will decide how they stand; They may be seen as reserves/ alternates for some european races. Chevalier had a very poor race in Ibiza but if one of the races is really hilly, he could be a factor. A smart guy who speaks perfect english.


So to sum it up, here are my picks
1 - DITLEV
2 - NEUMANN
3- WEST
4 - LONG
5- KANUTE
6- SANDERS
7- BAEKEGARD
8 - SKIPPER
9 - HEEMERYCK
10 - LAIDLOW

Frodeno, Blum or Iden would be in this list if they agree to be part of the TPO tour

So who would be in your list?
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