I got them as I'm remotely coached and thought it would be a good way to feedback my awful swim to my coach, as using gopros / having someone else at the pool is hard here (no pass = you're not getting to the pool..)

The analytical dashboard is really fully featured, with lots of different ways to slice your swim info, you can clearly see where in your stroke you/I have issues - for example:




Good Points

• Build quality is 11/10 ++
• Button Feedback is good - you know you click them
• They are strong / going to survive the rigors of the pool
• Comfy to wear
• Battery life
• iOS App seems well developed

Bad Points / I'm not sure

• Steep learning curve for the web based analytical tool
• Slow Data Transfer
• You can't 'fire and forget' - you need to only record certain parts of the swim, like long intervals or sets. I kept hitting record, swimming for an hour and then wonder why the transfer / upload wouldn't work - it was too much data. So my issue really.
• Calibration - Are they reading right? As from above you can see my right arm is far stronger than my left - but really is it that different?? I have no way or idea to know if they are actually reading correctly

There are lots of more pro features (included) that I'll never use - video syncing, force info, velocity data etc etc.

Overall its amazing and is a super clever bit of kit, overkills for me probably but its really given me an insight into how to improve my swim. Even thou its not cheap - I would buy again - seeing what it can bring to my swim, and not having a coach on the pool deck.

You can have a sit down video call with them (not done it yet) and they will go over the whole thing with you too.

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Regards, Richard
3D Bits and Pieces - https://www.printables.com/@thetrickster_793480

Great detailed feedback

Thank you!!

Did you get the 15 min or 90 min version?

Could you switch the left and right to see if it is accurate or is there a designated right and left

If so maybe intentionally pushing more with one than the other to ‘rest’ it

Is there a way to calibrate them similar to a bike power meter?

Or maybe have someone else try them to see if there is a big difference as you are experiencing. Maybe even getting lucky and finding a left handed swimmer

hey there
full disclosure, i chair the company that has developed this technology - eo.
this is an interesting thread and hopefully i can shed a little light here.
re calibration, these have been validated via pilot studies performed by our principal scientist, dr kenneth graham. kenneth was 24 years at the NSW Institute of Sport, last 14 years as chief scientist. he knows what he's doing when it comes to making sure they do what it says on the tin and he's a fanatic when it comes to integrity in everything.
@thetrickster doesn't use the force info apparently and if so, is missing out on a great deal of benefit.
i'm the guy that does the one on one zoom sessions to help interpret the data and show people how to get the best out of the system. i'd be more than happy to do this for him/her.
re @MrTri123 followup questions, you can switch between left and right to see what patterns you have between both hands. the system is very simple and incredibly informative in showing where one hand is more effective/efficient than the other and therefore understanding how to improve the lower performing one.
if you're unsure you can switch the handsets between hands and you'll see the same pattern but reversed. it's easy.
re calibration similar to bike and watts, the system is set up for this but it's not yet turned on. when the user registers their app, they put in some dimensions of hand and forearm. when we are ready to make available the bespoke calcs that show how much actual force you are pushing (it's a function of the force vs square area of hand and forearm) then you'll be able to see the calculation of the specific force for you.
Hope the above info helps
cheers
jaimie

Jaimie (right spelling today!) - Look forward to a zoom call end of the month once I have a few swims for you to look at! :)

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Regards, Richard
3D Bits and Pieces - https://www.printables.com/@thetrickster_793480

thanks richard. you can get me at jaimie.fuller@eolab.com

Tried that this morning! Looks like I'm indeed wonky! Swapped the left and right over and did two back to back 600m swims (so one normal, one swapped) - right arm appears to have more flexibility!

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Regards, Richard
3D Bits and Pieces - https://www.printables.com/@thetrickster_793480

This system blows my mind. The graphics are amazing.

So how about leg and feet sensors? I swim like a seahorse and would love to see how all parts move through the water.

And how about selling these to swim schools. Not sure I want to own this system but would gladly pay for a one session assessment and follow-up(s).

Jaimie - Do you see many swimmers who get the same pulling force out of both arms??? I would think most swimmers have a dominant side that pulls harder. You can see this in exaggerated form in the "gallop stroke" used by many top swimmers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Era0VAIUATw


Of course, this video shows the top 200 freestyler in the world but slower swimmers can and do use this technique as well.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I value your input

Which hand/arm is pushing back more in a gallop stroke?

In a gallop stroke is the breathing side usually more of a swing out from the body with the arm and more rotation to the other side?


Breathing side or none?

Thanks

I'd love to see how this correlates to swim speed. I'd imagine for most of us, there is a significant difference in pull strength, whereas for top swimmers I bet it's pretty even. I know that even when I swam with a gallop like that, I noticed a significant difference in speed when I worked harder to even out my stroke.

The "gallop arm" is almost always on the breathing side, but I wouldn't say that it is a "swing out from the body" per se. Ideally, if you have the flexibility, your arm recovery should be close to the body but OTOH many fast swimmers have a wide recovery. Phelps in the video shows the textbook stroke, which is part of why he was such a great swimmer.
Also, even if you don't do a "gallop stroke", most people are going to be stronger on their dominant side, but trying to minimize the diff between the two sides is prob a worthwhile goal, which this eo Swim BETTER tech aims to help with.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I don't know but after watching that video of Phelps in the 200 free, "it appears to me" that he is pulling harder with his breathing/galloping arm. No data obv but that is what it looks like to me. Personally, I've never been able to "gallop" for more than 25 yds or so before reverting to my more even pulling style. I think you have to be very, very strong to gallop like Phelps does, and make it pay off.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

It's hard to tell, but I wonder if it looks like he's pulling differently because one arm recovers more slowly than the other. I know back when I swam that was one of my form cues, to think about pulling at the same rate even though I had an asymmetric recovery, not that I was crazy fast though.

That's kind of the impetus for my question though, I'm wondering if that style works better for elites because they pull symmetrically. Not sure I agree you have to be super strong to make it work. Back when I was swimming in high school most of the fast guys had some sort of gallop, even if they weren't truly elite. I don't think that a two stroke breathing pattern and a symmetric stroke work all that well together.

Well, if you look at Ferry Weertman's stroke in this video of the Rio Oly 10K, he has a very smooth, very long non-gallop stroke. Not saying I am anywhere close to him but my stroke is quite similar to his.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQY6EoYVRxs

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

It’s just whatever is fastest and most efficient for individuals in their preferred events , determined after much experimentation

Gallop v “front quadrant” swimming comes in cycles in popularity

Gallopers (both big and small)- phelps,, ledecky, paltrinieri, lezak, Conor Dwyer

Front quadrant catch up swimmers - sun yang, romanchuk (go look at his races from 2016 versus 2021 and he is now much more catch up and much faster), wellbrock, Horton, eric mulk and ferry

I think TI were big front quadrant fans. But the rate needs to be higher , not crazy high, but higher, in the big dark OW than what they may unfairly be called out for having.

I catch up my arms too. When need to do a 100 sprint I gallop

. Back in the 90s there were not many front quadrant elites and Larsen Jensen Erik Vendt when they were coming up were criticised at least in one article I read by an Aussie commentator for their stroke being too front heavy and not like Hackett and Perkins. But that stroke is now used by plenty of 1430 swimmers

The article said that until they changed their inferior technique they wouldn’t be able to compete with the best.

Ferry and romanchuk probably the two most obvious catch up swimmers.

If you want to see the best modern example of the classic Hackett timing hafnoui and lukas martens on the men side

Thanks for doing this. you can clearly see that your handsets are accurately measuring your stroke.
It'd be great to have a Zoom and look at your other metrics and see what exactly your hand is doing through your stroke so we can identify what changes you need to make.
if you're interested, here is a short video showing how you can look at different metrics in conjunction with one another to understand:
https://www.loom.com/...7f-af93-8daf01a966fa

Very interesting video and demonstration of the tool.

I would love to see the force diagrams for good distance swimmers (pool, or OWS, or triathletes) like Finke, Paltrinieri, LCB, Amberger, ...

yeah, easier said than done. elite athletes tend to be very protective of their data. sorry.

Me too. I think it would be much larger the difference in how good the Olympic distance medalists are from tri swimmers

Here is a video of Danas Rapsys. I can’t really interpret the information but in case you find it interesting. Not sure what tool was used https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Us5MWxbKLQ