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Skinsuits in marathons and longer races -
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The case for skinsuits in marathons and distance events is fairly straightforward, with objective reasons for use and subjective reasons for disuse. What set this off was a conversation that either Kipchoge or Kiptum likely would have gone under 2h at Berlin had they worn skinsuits, or at the very least tight fitting tops.

1-Aerodynamics. Pretty clear cut. At 2h marathon pace a 0.1 increase in CdA is worth nearly 2 minutes. That's 10 years worth of world record progression. I haven't seen data on a typical singlet and half tights v skinsuit but even if it's only half that. There's also few rules about aerodynamic devices in running, so open season for aero shaped hats, inserts, etc.

2-Cooling. Modern fabrics are available and used that (when wet) cool better than bare skin. Higher surface area, greater evaporation, lower albedo, etc. Could be important at upcoming races like that big one in Paris.

3-Compression/energy return. Largely unexplored. There's reason to believe that the hysteresis losses of stretch/return on a skinsuit are comparable or less than the unreturned expense of moving short/singlet fabric out of the way for it to fall back on it's own. Probably insignificant. But there is a possibility that with a skinsuit the fabric can be laid in such a way that the energy taken in from ground impact is returned in the stride. I have doubts, but worth looking at.


Drawbacks-

1-Uncomfortable. Ok, but not insurmountable. Train in it, get used to it. In comparison to other things done to save 1 minute this seems paltry.

2- Fashion. I don't even know what to say. If you win it will look cool. See Jacob Ingebritsen.


Theory time-
There's an anecdote that cycling was slow to pick up marginal gains because of the prevalence of PEDs. When you could get a 10% boost from EPO there's not much incentive to chase down small gains in chain waxing or ribbed sleeves. Better to put your energy towards perfecting your doping scheme, biggest return on investment. Now that cycling is ostensibly cleaner, the marginal gains provide a ROI comparable to the doping practices that remain (even just making doping harder/more expensive/higher risk you can shift the equation).

Professional running has seen more EPO cases in recent years than cycling. The very nature of long distance running is more conducive to doping than cycling. Pro cyclists race from March-October and have a lot of eyes on them at all times. Peak marathon runners race 2-3 times per year and spend the rest of the year holed away at camps. There's just so much time to use PEDs in a low risk environment and clean up prior to race day.

Just like cycling in the 90's/00's, why would runners chase seconds from a funny looking suit when they can bump up the PEDs to gain minutes.

Conclusion-
The driving force behind baggy clothes in running is tradition/comfort/fashion. There's free time on the table for using skinsuits in longer running races. You already see skinsuits making their way into the 1500/3k. With the speed difference from 1500-marathon compared to the time difference there's likely more % gain in longer races. Despite this, IMO it will probably take a generational talent making them look cool for there to be any large scale adoption.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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I suspect that Kipchoge really just needs a tighter fitting shirt, and maybe calf sleeves if he's going to optimize aerodynamics. Interestingly, I suspect that this has more to do with fashion than anything else. When Nike first started doing the Breaking 2 stuff, they asked why the athletes hadn't yet optimized aerodynamics. Their response was "these are the clothes you give us so that's what we wear" - In that regard, aerodynamics may be more like pre-1989 TdF (Aero wins for Lemond), than the 1991+ TdF (Strongest doping wins). The athletes aren't wearing aero gear because they haven't yet been exposed to the benefit. Then again, if Nike took the time to figure this out for their big 3, there has to be a reason why at least Kipchoge isn't wearing a tighter fitting shirt.

Breaking 2: Here, he looks optimized for aero. Though the shirt could be tighter from an aero perspective




From the Ineos 159 Challenge: (the shirt is much too loose, but the rest of the outfit isn't bad)


From the last Olympics: (even here, the shirt isn't too bad, and on a day where heat is the deciding factor)
Last edited by: timbasile: Mar 19, 24 10:26
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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I bought a sprinters suit one time on ebay thinking along the same lines that even at run speed aerodynamics have to make a difference. Never had the courage to wear it in a road race. LOL
Although I do wear short tights or what ever you want to call them along with a size small traditional running tank so as to be tight fitting.
Who knows if it makes a difference but it feels less flappy for sure.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [mathematics] [ In reply to ]
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There guys are running at 21kph with my larger frontal than a TT cyclist. Someone can do the math, but I assume running upright at 21kph is likely as much drag as riding optimized aero at much higher speeds than 30 kph (depending on the height of athlete running, taller is worse aerodynamics running). 21kph is faster than cyclists on many steep climbs yet we know the big drafting benefits from cycling and cycling clothing.

So you are certainly on to something. I say the same thing about 100m sprinters whose peak speed is nearing 40kph. They are upright pushing a wall of wind in baggy clothing. Usein bolt's achievements in this context are just unreal given how tall he is and his aero penalty too.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Cathy Freeman Sydney Olympics 2000



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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:

Cathy Freeman Sydney Olympics 2000



Basically it is the same outfit at speedskating. Speed skaters are going 50kph and more aero. Sprinters are mid 30's kph and way less aero than a speedskater, so this just makes a ton of sense.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I know if I was trying to go sub 2, or win Major marathons I’d be looking for every last 0.1% I could find legally. I wonder if the shoe companies aren’t that interested (that we know of) because they know age grouper are unlikely to buy such products unlike the super shoes.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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And lest we not forget the almighty placebo of feeling more aero.

Emilio De Soto II
Maker of triathlon clothing, T1 Wetsuits, & Saddle Seat Pads and AXS since 1990
emilio@desotosport.com http://www.desotosport.com
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Except that speed skaters aren't required to safety pin a great big number on themselves as the IAAC seems to require, because, hey, ya never know, someone might sneak into a finals at the Olympics.

Top speed in the 200m (mens) is clocked at around 38kph. I need two wheels and an aero helmet to go that fast.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch wrote:
Except that speed skaters aren't required to safety pin a great big number on themselves as the IAAC seems to require, because, hey, ya never know, someone might sneak into a finals at the Olympics.

Top speed in the 200m (mens) is clocked at around 38kph. I need two wheels and an aero helmet to go that fast.

Cycling already solved this by gluing on numbers. Some races now even go so far as to provide stickers instead of traditional numbers.
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Re: Skinsuits in marathons and longer races - [timbasile] [ In reply to ]
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The Breaking 2 project covered pretty much all the bases, so I'd guess Kipchoge either refused a more aero kit or they found that, after considering drafting, there was no benefit.

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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