Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Scriptural question re: cults and false prophets [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ThisIsIt wrote:
Let me ask you this, if everything about these two guys' story was the same except it was Islam they had converted to, would you still see the same cause and effect?

Surely you'll concede there are conversion stories in that direction that for all intents and purposes mirror these conversion stories.
ThisIsIt wrote:
TMI wrote:
It has been reported for years now that Muslims are seeing visions of Jesus during the month of Ramadan that results in people converting to Christianity. YMMV

I'm sure, but that's beside the point. Is it your contention that no one who coverts to a religion other than Christianity has a similar sort of conversion experience that essentially provides the same sort of evidence you're citing?

If you really think about it I think you'll find that you understand my position because it's the same one you have towards other religions than Christianity, you just make an exception that I don't.

I understand your point, but I think you have arrived at an unwarranted conclusion. If two people each receive a sign, and that leads them to different faiths, you conclude that neither faith could be true and that each person has convinced themselves of what they want to be true.

While both could be wishful thinking, I am also open to the possibility that one could be the result of an answered prayer. While a sign isn't guaranteed to anyone, why close off that possibility?



ThisIsIt wrote:
#2 I'm aware that people have and I have had both what might be called unusual and transcendent experiences and they didn't budge me one iota towards believing in the supernatural, let alone believing in some kind of God, let alone being a Christian.

Shaw described how he could have either nurtured and cherished his experience, or he could have filed it away on a shelf of “strange spiritual experiences.” Sounds like the latter has been your choice.

ThisIsIt wrote:
#1 Because I'm a rationalist skeptic.
Have you considered taking the approach of a rational truth-seeker? The last 20 minutes of Episode 15 (01:13:27) is an interview with journalist and associate university professor, Molly Worthen. She eventually came to belief only after her intellectual doubts were satisfied by the evidence. Perhaps a personal sign isn't even needed.
Quote Reply
Re: Scriptural question re: cults and false prophets [TMI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TMI wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
Let me ask you this, if everything about these two guys' story was the same except it was Islam they had converted to, would you still see the same cause and effect?

Surely you'll concede there are conversion stories in that direction that for all intents and purposes mirror these conversion stories.
ThisIsIt wrote:
TMI wrote:
It has been reported for years now that Muslims are seeing visions of Jesus during the month of Ramadan that results in people converting to Christianity. YMMV

I'm sure, but that's beside the point. Is it your contention that no one who coverts to a religion other than Christianity has a similar sort of conversion experience that essentially provides the same sort of evidence you're citing?

If you really think about it I think you'll find that you understand my position because it's the same one you have towards other religions than Christianity, you just make an exception that I don't.


I understand your point, but I think you have arrived at an unwarranted conclusion. If two people each receive a sign, and that leads them to different faiths, you conclude that neither faith could be true and that each person has convinced themselves of what they want to be true.

While both could be wishful thinking, I am also open to the possibility that one could be the result of an answered prayer. While a sign isn't guaranteed to anyone, why close off that possibility?

How does anyone determine that their experience is the legitimate experience while the others are delusions?
Quote Reply
Re: Scriptural question re: cults and false prophets [TMI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TMI wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
#2 I'm aware that people have and I have had both what might be called unusual and transcendent experiences and they didn't budge me one iota towards believing in the supernatural, let alone believing in some kind of God, let alone being a Christian.


Shaw described how he could have either nurtured and cherished his experience, or he could have filed it away on a shelf of “strange spiritual experiences.” Sounds like the latter has been your choice.

Well all of my experiences happened while I was on psychedelic drugs, either LSD or mushrooms. So I'm fairly certain these subjective experiences weren't giving me some sort of insight into a hidden realty, but simply demonstrate what sort of experiences can be induced by drugs. I also think some people can have these experiences without drugs, probably the best example being synesthesia.
Quote Reply
Re: Scriptural question re: cults and false prophets [TMI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TMI wrote:
ThisIsIt wrote:
#1 Because I'm a rationalist skeptic.

Have you considered taking the approach of a rational truth-seeker? The last 20 minutes of Episode 15 (01:13:27) is an interview with journalist and associate university professor, Molly Worthen. She eventually came to belief only after her intellectual doubts were satisfied by the evidence. Perhaps a personal sign isn't even needed.

I'll give it a listen when I get a chance and see what I think of it.
Quote Reply

Prev Next