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Who knows facility cooling/heating?
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This is inspired by the fact that now that the temps are rising, the last couple of weeks I've had to run the AC in my office (window unit) while the heat is on as well because its too hot, and along the same lines every time it warms up by 10-20 degrees the gym I go to gets really hot. In these days of reducing carbon footprints why aren't these systems tied to the weather forecast, wouldn't it be fairly trivial to automate the system so that when the temps are going to rise the heating in knocked back or even turned off?
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Someone that runs more cold than you wouldn’t have the fan on and they would think the heating in your building is perfect. They probably complained for the last 6 months that it wasn’t hot enough. Seems like a reasonable assertion that this should be possible and even better, they will probably be self learning before long.

We had 2 residential units put in last year. We went for one mid and one low priced unit. These things are like quantum computers. I don’t understand all of the options. They use both internal and external temperature and humidity. Automated humidity control in GA? Yes, please!
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
Someone that runs more cold than you wouldn’t have the fan on and they would think the heating in your building is perfect. They probably complained for the last 6 months that it wasn’t hot enough. Seems like a reasonable assertion that this should be possible and even better, they will probably be self learning before long.

Yeah the old women, and they can just put a sweater on. When you're hot, it's not like you can strip down to cool off! That doesn't change that it seems like both of these places overshoot on the heating whenever it warms up. I'm not the only one running their AC or opening their window while the heat is on, it's just so wasteful. It had to be at least in the mid if not high 70s in my office this morning.
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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Several factors at play, Type of heating system, how much glass exposure what type of glass...

You say the heat is on, what do you mean? You can feel hot air being pumped out of an air outlet, the radiators are still warm?

Number of zones, size of zones, locations of thermostats throughout zones...

Yes, I believe there are HVAC systems that use outside temperature, and future forecast in their algorithms, but mostly newer high end stuff, most buildings are older and did not use high end stuff.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [DavHamm] [ In reply to ]
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DavHamm wrote:
Several factors at play, Type of heating system, how much glass exposure what type of glass...

You say the heat is on, what do you mean? You can feel hot air being pumped out of an air outlet, the radiators are still warm?

Number of zones, size of zones, locations of thermostats throughout zones...

Yes, I believe there are HVAC systems that use outside temperature, and future forecast in their algorithms, but mostly newer high end stuff, most buildings are older and did not use high end stuff.

At least at work the heating system is still pumping out hot air. At the gym when I've checked there isn't heat coming out, so assume it's shut off but not soon enough to prevent it from overshooting a good bit.
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
DavHamm wrote:
Several factors at play, Type of heating system, how much glass exposure what type of glass...

You say the heat is on, what do you mean? You can feel hot air being pumped out of an air outlet, the radiators are still warm?

Number of zones, size of zones, locations of thermostats throughout zones...

Yes, I believe there are HVAC systems that use outside temperature, and future forecast in their algorithms, but mostly newer high end stuff, most buildings are older and did not use high end stuff.


At least at work the heating system is still pumping out hot air. At the gym when I've checked there isn't heat coming out, so assume it's shut off but not soon enough to prevent it from overshooting a good bit.

SO much goes into large room, heating and cooling. In my office (cubes 5 ft walls) large open area, several 100 ft by about 30' you could see a 10deg swing in about 40 ft. Our area was always hot and we would call them to come out, oddly it seemed like it would get fixed for a few weeks and then go back to broken.

A gym or other workout facility also has the unknown variable of individual heat sources moving around they may or may not be there and produce varying amounts of heat. But in general yes, large rooms with lots of windows, can use help from a predictive algorithm which few have. Then there is the fun of large facilities where some areas need heat and others need to be cooled, Really big facilities its not an issue but you get those med sized ones where maybe they cheap out on hvac and struggle to heat and cool different parts of building at the same time. Solar loading through windows can be very big. As can PC's which was another issue. Facility desigend assuming 100's of desktops spewing heat, then tech evolves they become laptops not making as much heat, leave when the user does ect.. add wfh and old hvac design model doesn't work as well.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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I do HVAC energy conservation audits. Ideally there should be a lockout programmed that won't allow simultaneous heating and cooling but some buildings just can't operate without it.

Spring and Fall are hard times of year for most systems even if they have a decent control system. At night it is cool enough to require the boiler or other heating system to be on and often these systems are on/off at a specific temperature...55 to 57degF is common here. So for instance you have an unoccupied building at 6 am with a call for heat, the boiler fires up, warms up the heating loop and control valves open at air handling units which then start sending warm air throughout the building. Then the sun comes up and heats one the east/southeast side, this is where it starts to go wrong. In a poorly controlled or zoned system (many of them) the call for heat is satisfied on the sunny side of the building but the shaded side still hasn't warmed up so your air handler keeps sending heat until those cold areas are satisfied.

There are several ways to alleviate this. Adjust the discharge air temperature of the air hander so that it goes down as outside air temp goes up, this way even if is blowing heat on the warm side of the building in the example above it won't be as bad as before. Another way is to zone the building with reheat coils (in variable air volume or constant air volume boxes) in the ducts to the individual spaces or groups of spaces, now you can turn down the discharge air temp from the air handler even further and use the reheats to send the heat to just the areas that really need it.

All of this is complicated by minimum air flow requirements, minimum outside air requirements, buildings that end up being used very differently than when they were built, undersized or oversized systems...it goes on and on. I discover a new disaster every month!
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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I knew somebody here would know about this. It just seems like if you cared about energy saving/cost reduction you'd heat to the warmest part of the building and let people dress appropriately for the colder parts. I'm on the west side of the building so my situation has little to do with the sun heating the room to make it hot in the morning.
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Re: Who knows facility cooling/heating? [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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You're not wrong about making people dress appropriately but building operators end up fixing the squeaky wheels vs weighing against energy costs... especially if the energy cost ultimately handled by a separate department
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