That's not good. I thought the problem with the "interference" was that FPROs typically benefitted from drafting (legally or illegally) behind AG men.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

That's not good. I thought the problem with the "interference" was that FPROs typically benefitted from drafting (legally or illegally) behind AG men. //

Well apparently those guys are not pointing out the obstacles in the road to the ladies, bad pack etiquette.. (-;

Watching the race it was a big issue for everyone passing AG'ers it looked like to me. Nice to have that lane in the middle, but the AG's were so packed up it was impossible for Pros to pass without it..

I've done many IM and I'd say this was the most dangerous bike course of those I've ridden. The wind made it especially ugly. Riders were silly tired and riding all over the road battling the wind. I think riders were less observant and more carefuless at aid stations because of this. Bike bottles were strewn all over like land mines. I've never seen so many crashes, but I've never ridden a course that allowed me to see that amount of action.

This doesn't excuse the alleged pushing, wish is insane. I don't think the majority of the situation exclusive to pro women.

Errant bottle throw by a competitor in front me at the first bike aid station took me out and ended my day. Unfortunately, it was pretty blatant he dropped it in the middle of the road with zero attempt at trying to get it past the shoulder/normal area in a trash zone. Frustrating to say the least.

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IG: NCGregory8778

I lived in the Houston area from 2004 to 2019. The original IMTX bike course was actually kind of nice.

I've been saying this ever since the bike course moved to the Hardy a few years ago: it's arguably the shittiest bike course imaginable. Not that we're on a scenic bike tour while racing but a halfway decent looking bike venue would be nice. This is just a highway ride from The Woodlands through the shit parts of north Houston and back, done twice. There's zero respite from the wind and sun. Wind is almost always coming from a southerly direction this time of year. So half the bike ride is into a nasty wind. Plus you're getting scorched as there's zero shade anywhere.

The Lake Woodlands swim also kind of sucks. It's a great run course though.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I've never done the race but when I was watching on Saturday, once the pro's made the turnaround on the bike, it looked VERY sketchy with all the AG'ers, pro's, and the motos are crammed into a single lane. It seemed very dangerous. I get that IM had to change the course several years back but this current course doesn't promote a safe and fair race. I really hope they can find a better bike course.

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blog

Unpopular opinion here, but I like the swim course, bird poop and all. Swimming into the canal is cool and I loved having spectators cheering you on as you approached T1,

I agree about the run course. It may be the best IM run course out there as far as spectator support goes. Also, best finish line vibe. The IMSG World Champs a few years ago didn’t have a finish crowd like this for an average tri guy. Just tons of fun to be out there running with great crowds.

Please provide proof and/or video, or at least a directly involved person's statement. Otherwise, to me, you're just bragging.

There might be things completely unacceptable (and those should be potentially punishable), but complaining about crowded race is ridiculous. If they want a race only for themselves, let them race T100. Oh wait, they're not at the top.

I'm sorry to read this, hope you're ok. Then I hope your bike is ok as well.

IMO, this should be in the rule book as DSQ, if you intentionality discharge your bottle under your bike, even if it's in the aid zone. Mistakes will happen, that you might not catch a bottle (Youri x5), but intentional discharge under someone's front wheel is just reckless.

how exactly is this bragging? I didn't race. These women sure as hell aren't bragging. And everything is verifiable from their IG pages detailing their personal accounts of negative interactions with AG men. I named the women, go and find their IG posts. Unless you're going to troll them and tell them that they're bragging. Which is probably what you'll end up doing. Their complaints are more than just a "Crowded race". It's about men slotting in too soon on a pass, so closely that they connect their back wheel with the woman's front wheel and causing a crash. It's about actually being SHOVED by an AG racer as they are both racing - like he took his hands off of his bars and pushed her as she's riding her bike. These actions caused crashes and injury - it's not fair racing for the women's field.

If he really shoved her and she crashed, it's a crime and I'll wait for a formal prosecution. I don't use IG.

Are pros still required to ride staggered? I could see an AGer thinking they are blocking by not moving to the right - even though AG FOP men should know better.

I'm in no way excusing pushing someone on the bike though - that's way out of line.

Not surprised at all. From the broadcast, I couldn't believe the sheer numbers of AG'ers I saw that don't understand how dangerous it is to be just strewn across the lane 3, 4, 5 bikes wide and also just park themselves on the left side just begging for a dangerous situation. I realize the wind is soul crushing and f's with your brain (I've have my share of dark inner monologue racing IMTX on the Hardy) but you still have the be aware of proper lane etiquette

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Cheers, Ray

[/quote]
I posted during the race but no one commented so I deleted the post. That said has IM learned nothing. Multiple riders in each direction along with motorcycles in both directions. Safety is obviously not a concern to Ironman.

While you wait for formal prosecution, you should learn how to ask for corroboration in good faith. In this case, if there's no video of the incident, it may not be possible to corroborate. In which case, you need to take the poster's assertion in good faith, with the understanding that they could be mistaken - yes, people make mistakes, and yes, some humans are terrible and will make false accusations. You need to learn to hold that understanding inside you instead of what you did above.

OP is relaying secondhand (at best) information.

mountain_erin wrote:

You men need to do better.

Also, what is this extraneous and sexist nonsense? What do I or any of the men who read this thread have to do with the antics of the IM TX racers?

You absolutely do have to take accusations in good faith, but in the prosecution of a crime (which is what's being alleged) the accused party is also afford the right to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. The word of one party over the other in the absence of other evidence is not enough to convict.
This was a crowded race, if this did in fact occur as we are discussing I am sure there are witnesses who will be the deciding factor.

So you are I'm effect, both right and that is the beauty of the American legal system. Everyone is correct until all are heard.



Now, to another point, in your initial post you comment about how 2 pro women caught their wheels in expansion gaps and in your own words you assume men are to blame. This does seem a bit unfair without further rationale/ first hand accounts of how a man forced them to ride into an expansion gap while maintaining their wheel parallel to it.
Could be the case, but it seems an unfair assumption to make without reason.

^^^^^^This.

The bike was a mess, but I'm concerned with the OP's painting men with a broad brush and telling them that they "need to do better."

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I do have one genuine follow up question:

Would your perspective of any of these interactions have changed had those who purported the acts also been women pros or AG?

Genuine thought and I encourage you to consider it, because in my opinion a bad act is a bad act regardless of the gender of either party.
When we include inflammatory language targeting specific groups or communities that is where common discourse dies because those in the accused party can get defensive.
Rather couldn't we frame this same discussion as "AG athletes interfering with pro race"
It shouldn't matter which gender either side is, a crime is a crime and regardless of status everyone should be allowed to have their own race day un interfered with regardless of racing status

We all know some fast age groupers are absolute ass holes with full of ego and pride. I barely hear ‘on your left’ when fast guys pass me. Sometimes, they pass me in sketchy area and situation without saying a word. They just don’t care. I can see this actually happened. Please please please let’s not be one of those guys.

On your left doesnt work most of the time.. they look that direction and then float the direction they are lookingand then Im swerving to miss them. My experience is better to say nothing 80% of the time.

Glad I’m not the only one who caught the ‘girls got caught in expansion gaps, damn you mens ‘!

Look for all I know the OP could be right and there were some jerk guys racing. But it’s coming across as a jaded swipe at anyone who owns a twig and dingleberries

This is the internet. It's very easy to move on. There's some sad sad dudes in here who are looking awfully pathetic.

Replying to you only because you're the last post, sorry.

But holy moly. Do y'all want an echo chamber? Really, we made it 8 posts before we had someone start throwing around their own sexist attitude and responses to OP "because she did it first"? ("Oh, you're bragging [about being a female pro], get faster and race in a smaller field" immediately followed by a separate response that someone dropping a bottle under a bike should be a disqualification?? @Savage, truly hope you're ok and sorry your day got cut short, hope the next one is way better.)

We see thread after thread of race ranger and race conditions and the front of the race and blah blah blah and ONE person posts about how shitty the conditions are for women in the professional field and y'all pile on about the legality of her language? And you feel personally attacked?! Wheels in expansion gaps was noted as a problem due to the density of racers on course - and for the professional women, if they're not around other professional women, they're around FOP AG men. (Except Taylor Knibb, she's around pro men.) So, yes. The logical conclusion of the issue is that the professional women were impacted by the density of FOP AG men. Stating the issue as age groupers is less accurate.

I mean, come on. How many posts have you seen about how slow women are the only ones getting slots to world championships (Kona, Nice, or 70.3)? How many times do you think the women on the board have experienced being painted by a broad brush? I'm certainly not saying that its right, but in this case, its accurate. If you weren't there or you were but weren't around professional women, then this is clearly not about you, its about the individuals in the race. (Whereas when I read about how the only people qualifying for the women's world champs slots are slow, that is about me.)

Good grief. This is a safety issue for the WHOLE field, this happened to be a post about the professional women. I like having other women on this board. The women's specific board is gone, so its kind of uncool to make a thread specific to women's racing so hostile. I really like being a part of this community, but boy reading how this thread devolved sure felt shitty.

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KJ
Swim and Triathlon Coach
AllTerrainEndurance.com
KJ@allterrainendurance.com