Glad to finally see an announcement.

Not sure they're "stealing thunder"... there's just not *that* much overlap; the PTO announcement is for races in 2024, and the pros who will likely race already have a very good idea of the schedule. The 70.3 Worlds announcement does affect pros, but not until next year. It's a bigger deal for AG-ers.

That, and with today's news cycle, a 6 day lead is enough time for the 70.3 news to be digested before the PTO release.

Yeah, I agree they don’t significantly impact each other - it just tickled me that right after the PTO says “hey guys, stand by, we’re making a big announcement in 2 weeks!”…..IM pipe up with “we’re making a big announcement in 2 days!” ;)

Maybe but IRONMAN have left it far later than normal to announce the location (and Marbella is hardly a 'must visit' destination). I think it's more likely that they now have all the permissions in place.
But if this is in November (as @jaimev suggests) that will go up against the 2025 100km Tour series grand final which will also be in November. So most of the 2025 Tour athletes (with the series final a mandatory race) will not compete, or will race one or the other fatigued. ETA: In November/December 2024 at least PTO have the option to insert the 100km tour series final between (in the 7 weeks) Kona and Taupo.
Do we know what the date of Kona (W) 2025 is? Surely they will have at least 3 weeks between Kona and Marbella. It was desperate in 2022 when the St George 70.3WC was emasculated by its proximity to IMWC Kona.

It would be pretty interesting if PTO throws down seven AG races with a final that you have to qualify for. Say they want 2000 racers, and the first seven races they invite top 300 overall at each.

I think the one thing Ironman/70.3 Worlds has going for it is the gate keeping aspect of qualifying to give you the feeling of a special desire to race. I definitely wouldnt have gone to Lahti ever and wouldnt be going to Taupo if not for that "opportunity" (not that I dont want to get to NZ someway, but it likely wouldnt have been this year). If PTO says this is our grand final, everyone come and race it as an AGer it just doesn't have that allure. Seven races is a small pool of races to use as qualifiers but it would be a way for PTO to try. Maybe alternatively they could extend some invites through the various federations to top racers. "Because of your national ranking you've been selected as a qualifier for the PTO Grande Final".

Earlier comms from PTO/WT suggested that qualification for the PTO AG champs would be via national federation process (as per the WT long course world champs etc). Could change of course as its been a long time since those early announcements.

But I think that makes sense from PTO/WT perspective (assuming it really is a partnership between the 2 orgs) because (a) it utilises an existing process that WT are comfortable with, (b) as you mention above, AGers having to qualify from such a small number of annual PTO races could severely limit the number qualifying (e.g. if logistics/timing for the one PTO race in your region doesn’t work out then a bunch of people won’t make it … and skew even further towards those rich enough (time and money) to compete).

I think it would be great for AGers if the PTO world champs takes off. And I think there will be a market for it partly due to the rotation of 70.3 WC locations (I personally wouldn’t travel from UK to, say, NZ for a 70.3 WC so if there was a PTO WC closer to home that year then happy days). Will be interesting to see if PTO rotate their WC location annually, go with a particular venue for a period (say, a 3 year deal is done), or try to establish a permanent single WC location. It’s going to take a while for the race calendar to settle down, if it ever does.

hadn't thought of that, but it's a fair point. i love tri and have been racing since i was a kid, but i just can't justify the trip to a place like (for instance) aus/nz for a world's event.

on the other hand, it does further muddy the waters for me on what exactly the PTO's purpose is. race series? federation? athlete's union? promoter? media company?

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Yeah, another rotating world championship would be great. I have little interest in travelling around the world to race and have enjoyed targeting world championships of various distances/disciplines near me over the years.

It would be great if they all got in some sort of consistent rotation schedule so that each continent had one of the world championships every year or every other year. Seems like they're almost all in Spain recently!

Conscious that this conversation ought to be in the PTO thread but I’ll reply here anyway!

Seems obvious that their purpose & strategy has changed over time (which in itself seems to get some folks on ST very exercised!), with arguably the consistent bit being their belief in the idea that triathletes are amongst the best athletes in sport and hence have the potential to support a broadcast product at a revenue level that will in turn support decent income for the athletes (with enough left over for a return for investors). Plenty of people doubt that model but I think that’s the game.

They’re certainly not a federation (their partnering with WT pretty much defines this point). They seem to have moved away from trying to be a union (indeed I think it would make more sense for the athletes to form a union/representative body separate to all other orgs in the sport, in order to represent their interests objectively and without conflicts … I understand that’s been tried and failed several times in the past but if there is more money at stake in the future then there will be a stronger incentive for the athletes to get organised) - and seem to have morphed that element into having athlete committees which have a say in some decisions (and iirc the PTO is structured in such a way that a proportion of future profits could flow to member athletes but I’d have to remind myself about that element).

I think the AG element to what they are doing is essentially only a means to provide atmosphere/community/spectators around their pro races (which probably helps the broadcast product) - and if that’s the case it makes sense for them to partner alongside existing events/expertise rather than becoming race organisers themselves (at least in the short term - they have a longer term strategic option to buy out the races they partner with).

Anyway, that’s how it all seems to me, very much from the outside looking in and just reading their media output!

Ya, I think PTO did what they had to and attacked Ironman where they were perceived as weak.

What's interesting to me is the apparent synergy between the Ironman and PTO and the apparent lack of interest in collaboration. If PTO only cared about broadcast rights to showcase professional racing, why in the world would Ironman want to be saddled with paying to put on a broadcast, paying prizes, etc. ? Why not just contract a series of pro races to the PTO and let the PTO foot the bill as they try to sell the sport prime time? If it goes big in 5 years, after this fictious contract was up, IM just cuts PTO out of the picture. It's not like suddenly PTO can replicate the Ironman scale of AG racing, and the best case scenario for PTO AG races is they "only" lose $50-100 per AG participant I'd guess at this point with their go it alone/local RD approach.

Ironman could simply require a no-compete clause where PTO would agree never to run an AG race. Threat to IM bottom line solved, and IM hands over the needy pros.

Pretty sure it is Marbella.


They have this page on Ironman website, that has this image
https://www.ironman.com/.../7533383-slot-badges

Announcement is only meant to be later today from what I have seen from IM on their social media platforms

Join the best in the world they come together in Marbella, Spain on November 8-9, 2025.


The date is a surprise, that means 70.3 worlds could take place after IM worlds.
I am not sure the dates of IM worlds Nice & Kona 2025 have been announced, have they?

Marbella is the best WTC 70.3 I think. Proper course, great vacay location, incredible riding and running outside of Malaga if you go early or stay after.

Good location & the only possible date, considering 2024 70.3 WC in December and Kona race in October, as always.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2fE1t0Ld6h/
https://www.tri247.com/...la-host-announcement
"A one-lap hilly bike section with 1400 metres of climb"!
70.3 worlds will have been after IMWC in 2022 and 2024. There is an argument that WC should be towards the end of the season (eg Taupō, St George 22) rather than in August (Lahti) or early September (St George 21, Nice/Nelson Mandela Bay/Chat . .).
I have not seen the 2025 IMWC date announcements (my Q asked upthread; unanswered).

(and Marbella is hardly a 'must visit' destination).

To each their own but seems to me as a bit of good change of sceneries compared to St. G, Lahti (nothing against these by the way, with very few exceptions I actually enjoy traveling anywhere) and a few other ones. Just out of curiosity, but what would you consider a must visit location if you could choose where the worlds would take place next year? (have to be a IM 70.3 race location)

Yeah, I can't think of anywhere that's a much better vacation spot than Marbella or more centrally located. There's tons to do in and around Marbella and can easily make the trip a long vacation. Even if the beach isn't your thing, it's 2.5 hrs to Sevilla, 2 hrs to Granada, 2 hrs to Cadiz. Can do a day trip to Gibraltar or Ronda. Weather should be a great.

I've never done a race with more drafting than Marbella though and that's with a 2K foot climb straight out of transition. The pelotons were comical. I can't imagine what somewhere like Barcelona is like that's flat.

As a Brit, the Spanish coast is not the most exotic location, but I'm very happy with the choice - a 3 hour flight from the UK and plentiful accommodation will make it a cheap (ish) and easy race location. Travelling to Taupo or St George was pretty out of the question for me.

Now just to figure out how/where to qualify as I expect the European races to be very competitive for slots.

Agree, the race will be very popular for Europeans and the Q races will be extremely competitive.

same goes for me. (in switzerland, not the UK.) it could be a nice destination for some to make a holiday, but for lots of people in continental it could also be just a long weekend trip.

selfishly, i like marbella as a spot and might take a crack at qualifying.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Great question. For Brits Marbella is associated with value for money holidays, sun-burnt hoi poloi and too much alcohol (massive and probably biassed unfair stereotyping). I will think on my top choice (of course having an existing 70.3 reduces that). Hasn't San Francisco had a 70.3, or is that just EfA? What a great venue for a middle distance race! Or Dubai? Or London?
Otherwise:
With the Marbella announcement for 8/9 Nov 2025 this drives WPRO Kona to (latest) 18 Oct. I'm making the assumption of at least a 3 week gap to allow a few hardy (female) souls the chance of performing well in the second race; or maybe IM are effectively splitting the field (women). St George 2022 was 3 weeks later and resulted in (of the top ?15) only LCB doubling up: struggled round, clearly less than ready after her Kona heroics, trying to defend her 2021 title. And KB won, displaying his robustness and ability to 'back up' unlike Iden's DNF. Ditlev there too after his (relative, 2022) Kona 'fail'.
With Lahti only a fortnight before (MPRO) IMWC Nice almost noone doubled up: again maybe this was IM's deliberate design.

And that then means MPRO Nice no later than 27 Sep (a week later than this year). I'm making the assumption of at least a 3 week gap for the IM people to clear up after Nice, breath, and trek across and set up on the pier.

I recall my former boss (Brit) also didn't like Spain's southern coast for the same reasons.

I personally prefer Northern Spain (e.g. Asturias) as it is more scenic and less crowded. However, I do recall traveling through some less crowded areas in the Southern Coast that were quite nice.

Marbella in particular has become the butt of a joke off the back of a UK reality show called The Only Way Is Essex (think Jersey Shore) whose cast had a catchphrase of "no carbs before Marbs" in relation to pre-vacation dieting.

Maybe Dan Plews could adopt it :)

For those familiar with the travel around there, assuming renting a car and coming from the US, what are the best spots to fly into?

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