Not having attended either but having followed both closely through media coverage over the years, I am curious about this as well. Lange stateded his preference was for Kona despite the Nice course likely being more favorable to him on Breakfast with Bob and on the IM post-race presser. It would be interesting to hear more from other pros, AG'ers, industry people, and attendees.

As a tri fan and mid-pack AG'er observing from afar, I was initially apprehensive about the alternating WC venues but after watching the coverage leading up to, during, and after the Nice WC, I'm sold on the new format. I'd love to see an informed ST'er create the Nice version of KonaCoffee's insightful Kona Survival Guide going forward:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...=konacoffee#p7805353

You left out asking the guys and gals who did Oahu and Kona :-)

May I include a comparison of IMWC in St. George? With Nice being the second IMWC outside of Kona, I'd be curious to hear how the St. George course differs from Nice. I believe the bike elevation gain is greater in Nice, but both have significant climbing. The atmosphere looked more exciting in Nice, however, maybe that's just good camera work.

The reason I ask is because I'm hopeful that SG makes it on the world's rotation in the future.

isnt this the topic of a thread already?

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Retrospective%3A_Ironman_World_Championships_-_Nice_vs_Kona_P8006816/?page=unread#unread

i read through that thread and i think this one might be just a duplication. i just wanted to distill this down to that question of whether IM made the right or wrong choice. they made the wrong choice based on the opinions of folks a few months ago. i'd like to know how those opinions have changed, if they have changed. my sense is that nice won many people over. but i'd like to know, specifically from folks who have kona experience and who were physically in nice as well.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

TL;DR: Yes. My brain-dump:

Location-wise there's legacy, for those of us that care about keeping it relevant. I asked Mark Allen at the press conference yesterday if he was feeling some type of way seeing THIS event on HIS Prom des Anglais, and he said yes, he was happy to see it. I rode with a new French friend all day yesterday jumping around the bike course to catch the boys, who was just gushing about seeing the French succeed, recalling the last time that happened being... when Yves Cordier had I think he said close to a four-minute lead on the last lap out by the airport, with Mark snaking the win with 400 meters left in the race (I haven't seen it but evidently there's a photo of the moment Mark passed, with Yves wearing a "WTF" look on his face. So, we have history with the location, which is important to some of us.

We had the chance to see a new kind of athlete succeed.. not just one that does well in the heat, on the Queen K/Alii. The one constant was Sam took a flyer on the bike to take the win. But unlike Stadler or Lieto or Zack doing it back in the day, he didn't have a pack dynamic. He just threw his cards down, and it paid off in a cool new way. The racing was fantastic.

I'm not sure the split watered the field too much, but I haven't seen the DNF rate. I was surprised to see USA with the most entrants in Nice. This will hold true in Kona. I'm fearful the stories about IM offering up scads more entries to Kona to fill it puts athletes on course that aren't necessarily ready to be there and take on that special kinda experience, which may result in more DNFs. Nice was hot on the run, but not that hot.

IMHO, Kona for men AND women has been sustainable for the last few years. IM wants to put as many bodies out there and make paper, without making it truly unsustainable for the local infrastructure (as well as unwelcoming to the local community). The Nicoise were so nice. There was plenty of hotel infrastructure. Plenty of places to eat reasonably (and SO many amazing Italian places down little alleys off the Promenade to carb up on authentic Italian, given the border with Italy was just 25 miles away). Women will come next year, and there'll be a contiengent that will love the fact that they'll race... then go shopping, hit the beach, or go to Monaco, or Cannes, and explore the Cote d'Azur afterward. The guys didn't really shop; they were there for the race, pretty much.

There may be some teething for people to understand and appreciate that this is going to be a good thing. As I fly back, I was pretty set on that it was a good call. It sure was better than keeping everything in Kona.

-Jay

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Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

Probably this photo?

At the risk of sounding pedantic, if this is to work in the long term, we need to know if people who haven't physically been to this event would like to go next time - or if they'll change their minds having heard from people who attended.
In fact, I haven't heard a single person who attended who wasn't glad they did.

Anyhow, to answer the question. I was in Kona 2022, raced on Saturday, watched/cheered the race on Thursday. I attended IM France in June '23, qualified but didn't take the slot. Then I was in Nice this weekend cheering and supporting.

I think moving the WC outside of Kona was a good decision. It gives more people the chance to watch and/or attend the race.
I would have never gone to Kona just to see the race: from Europe it's just too far, too expensive, too big a commitment, too much jet lag.
I was in Nice for a little over 24 hours and went there by train, booked a handful of days before. An additional friend joined last minute.
If I had raced it would have been just as easy logistically and cheap economically.
Had the race been in Kona this year I wouldn't have attempted qualification. It's too expensive to do every year from Europe.

Cheering at the race in person was magical. Seeing JF's last race with a big smile, pushing PL to catch up, shouting to SL "you've made it", cheering a friend who made it to the top 10 of his AG, and supporting all the other athletes. The down moments were filled with supporting family/friends of people who had taken place near us at the fence. This included explaining the nuances of how the IM tracker works to a couple from Wisconsin and a man from Belgium who were there to support members of their family. Together we shouted their names as well as those of our friends. It made us feel connected to strangers through triathlon.
4 laps makes it repetitive but for the support it's fun. You see the race unfolding in front of you with the athletes passing multiple times. In Kona you hardly see anything of the run.
Instead, watching the swim, the bike and transitions was almost impossible. Too much security fencing, crowd management, too little space, not enough big screens. It's only marginally better in Kona.

Racing Nice both in June and September was my original plan. I didn't take the slot because it doesn't suit my skills. Swimming and running are my relative strengths. I could do decently but I wouldn't be competitive. In fairness, Kona suits my skills better. I'll definitely race Nice in 2025 if I manage to substantially improve my cycling. I do wonder how many didn't take the slots for similar reasons (rather than the "it's not Kona"). But other athletes may chose it precisely because it's good for strong cyclists, especially if they are lightweight or good descenders.

A lot has already been said about how Nice is a better location than Kona for virtually every aspect (logistic, accomodation, things to do/see, culture, eating, etc.).

Sponsor presence was a bit underwhelming. The Expo was small, smaller than Kona and I know people were complaining of the Expo of Kona 22 already.

Media presence also seemed underwhelming. I do wonder how much of it is due to American media not attending in person, how much is due to the cost of attending 2 WC races.

Addressing the split location. I don't think there's anyone in favour of this approach. The question is how to solve it while keeping all the other requirements (men and women on different days, etc. etc). Maybe a full rotation is the only possible solution - assuming there are locations willing to have 2 full IMs on near consecutive days.

I did 70.3 WC in Nice 2019, and have done Kona few times. Skipped this year’s WC, but I assume it was comparable to 2019.

I also did St G’s “2021” WC.

My view: Nice is top of the list as alternative WC venues. If there will be a rotating WC, Nice should be a staple of that (like Pebble Beach and Pinehurst are for the U.S. Open).

I really like St. G, but that felt like a very poor man’s alternative for a WC.

Strong preference would be to return to one day coed Kona. Being there really meant something. Prior to Covid, barely anyone was complaining about that set-up. Then IM started chasing the money for a two day event (gender equality is complete BS as a motivation), and now they have made a mockery of the idea of a WC field, particularly for women.

At a time when the sport is shrinking big time, the new leadership should go back to at least one thing that worked—the traditional version of Kona.

Raced Kona and St.G, spectated Nice (raced here 70.3 WC in 2019). Subjective view but Kona is 2 levels up when is comes to atmosphere vs both St.G and Nice. They are both GREAT races but you can put Klagenfurt or Frankfurt (and many others) in the same league. Nice: it's a large town and the event get's diluted. One block away from expo and you have zero sense that you are in WC place. There was more rugby spirit than IM. Quality of AG filed: both St.Gand Nice materially diluted vs Kona (also the top) . Not discussing quality of course: there will be different preferences. Separate men and women: massive downside. I prefer for IM to drop Kona and some sensible race organiser to take care of it. It will be more competitive that any rotating WC by IM.

I did both race: Kona in 2022 and Nice in 2023 so I can give my point of view.
Nice is an excellent city to hold a good Ironman race but it is not the right city to replace Kona. Not that Kona is perfect and beautiful, in fact in my opinion it has many negative aspects, but it remains the race where everything was born. So Nice is ok as a Pro World Championship but not good as a replacement for Kona. I would also add that the Nice race was not at the organizational level of Kona and that the mere fact that the bike path was open to traffic made it really dangerous. I recommend Ironman to evaluate other more iconic destinations

That's that one I think!

Looking at other comments, the spectator's viewpoint is a huge one; in Nice, spectating the run was way more fun than an out-and-back along Alii, then they're gone for hours off to the Energy Lab until the finish. You didn't have the colored chalk on the Promenade as they do on Alii, but there were plenty of fans cheering.

That said, it's gotta be the best new location for a WC. I'm not sure about rotating it around other locations, but think this alternating program is sustainable. There's never gonna be a perfect place, that has a tough course, has infrastructure (hotels, eating establishemts) to handle the volume Ironman wants, has a legacy, has accessibility for the EU athlete/fanbase. Agreed, I think it'd be great if the course was shut down, but I don't think we'll get the rolling enclosure the Tour de France gets; it's too spread out to make a family stay pinned at home all day and not go to their boulangerie or church all day because of the event. Heck, so much of it is 'way out there,' a lot are going to continue to not know a major sporting event is going on along their roads from 7am until 2pm, even if they give a heads up for months or weeks ahead of time.

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Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

Just my opinion, but Ironman has devalued their WC to the point of irrelevance. Their greed of offering bought slots and WFT watered down the field creating artificial demand that wasn't there forcing a split of the men's and women's fields and separate venues on separate dates.

Couple that with an emerging PTO pro race calendar that essentially has become the preeminent pro racing brand of triathlon and you have what is left of Ironman.

The new Ironman CEO is going to need to entirely restructure the brand imo. Decreasing AG numbers only adds fuel to the fire of a brand that is losing positive growth.

how did nice go for you?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Obviously not a Kona person, but at least has done some other IM WC racing: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ve_on_Nice_8798.html

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

PTO needs a successful 2025 before they can claim preeminence. So far the biggest impact thr PTO has had on Ironman is crippling several of Ironman athletes with sickness from one thing or another.

Ironman doesn't do themselves any favors with putting the fear of seemingly arbitrary and equally crippling penalties on random athletes. At least IM isn't afraid to penalize the big names though. Unless they eject bottles and are having a farewell race.

I hope they just rotate the "world championship" every year to somewhere new. No singular place will recreate or replace the Kona Ironman race.

And they need to do everything they can to host a mixed gender race in Kona every year and just call it the Ironman: Kona and limit the field to manageable numbers. I hope the new CEO has a clear vision going forward because this weekend was fun to watch, but it wasn't Kona. It was almost painful how they tried to make Nice a special place like Kona.

how were the accommodations for you in nice last week? were the restaurants and other ancillary experiences better, worse or the same as the times you spend in kona for the IM?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The report I got from someone who was there: restaurants sucked and it was hard to figure out what was what. After all we are just dumbass Americans who can't speak the holy language of French and based on my time in France prior getting anyone to help with specifics outside of speaking French is about equivalent to a slap in the face to them.

Accomodations were good. It's Nice and a traditional vacation area for all of Europe. That part should have been a slam dunk and it was.

Watching the race this weekend and observing the hype was kind of like going to a movie with a friend who is absolutely bonkers over it and having them tell you how "great it is", and when you actually go to the theater with them it's actually not that great. But they love it, and want you to love it, so it's all they talk about.

ah. right. i misunderstood. i thought you were there. first time i've heard that the restaurants in nice sucked. i've been there for long course races 4 times and i've been to kona almost every year since i raced the first IM there in '81 and for all the "flavor" kona has on offer i wonder if that means your friend thinks kona's restaurants are better than those in nice. that would be a notable divergence from my own experiences.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Interesting, as a casual observer, who didn't pay attention to any of the coverage pre & post race, my first thought as to how the results would have been different in Kona is that Lange would have actually won had it been Kona.

US expat living in London. Raced Kona in 2019 and now Nice. I qualified at Vichy so got the option of 2023 Nice or 2024 Kona and picked Nice given travel from London (cost and pure logistics, having traveled from London to Hawaii in 2019) new venue and also thinking the new venue (and location) would create a much different race and I wanted to experience that.

Nice is amazing, been there before with the wife for holiday, would go back again and again. City has infrastructure for the race, people and crowds. Close airport with lots of options, good public transit options and stuff to do within city and locally should you want to venture out. Great food. Saw some posts about bad food/restaurants, bummer. Never been my experience.

Expo, i'd say somewhere between a 'regular' IM and Kona. but in all fairness I never spend any time in the expo. I did make use of the mechanics as I had a saturday blow-out on my ride, was sorted crazy quick and without issue.

Other events.... given I made it a 'longer' weekend i pretty much focused on the things I needed to do so i could race and didnt make use of the other/side events. I knew they were going on but didnt really make an effort to go to them. Though to be fair when in Kona I felt i 'had' to being my first time on the island/race and it being a bit more of a one-pony show. (I did absolutely get out and enjoy Hawaii pre and post race).

Race itself.

Swim was nice, missed the sea turtles so thats less cool.
Ride: was a tough bike course and I enjoyed it. I liked that I needed to think a bit, be scared a bit, have fun flying down some hills, think a bit more about how i wanted to burn matches (on hills or powering on flat) versus just suddenly realizing i had burned them simply becuase it was 1,000,000 degrees. Amazing scenery.
Run: the run always sucks, no matter where, I've done one full distance where the run was 'fun' (Roth). I will say having the crown/people along 100% of the course was great, much better than running a fair amount of Kona without a soul in sight. However, by lap 4 i was over it.

Run ran out of ice/cold water about lap two for me (so around 3:30?) this is a uniquely French problem (sorry, not sorry) of running out of ice during races. Paris Marathon, other major races I and my wife have done , always run out of ice. i just dont get it.

i would say i enjoyed the weekend but that it 100% was not the same as 2019 Kona. i think this is primarily due to it being sepreated by gender. It really didnt have the same 'excitement' of a combined event. It was a great race, but not a championship race. May also be the fact it was held in a place that could actually support this event PLUS a whole other event Rugby). This allowed one to be involed in the race... or not. At Kona, you're keenly aware they are at max capacity and that largely anything going on is somehow involved with Triathlon (during that week).

I personally would enjoy/advocate for a rotation which incldues Kona, plus 1-2-3 other venues yearly and go with combined races and reduced racers.

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________________________________________________________
Taylor Rogers

2024: IM Hamburg

Well maybe it's just hard for a few people to accept the idea that a world championship could be hosted outside of the greatest country in the world.
I'm just reading "the French suck, I didn't want to be interested in this race. I didn't go, but it sucked."
You know there might be murican-speaking French readers on this forum, right?

The restaurants definitely did not suck.

Plenty of places off the promenade (LOTS of Italian, considering it's on the doorstep with Italy), with no waiting, awesome food, all at reasonable prices. In Kona, finding a place the evenings before the race for my wife for a reliable pre-race meal has consisted of... Subway's sweet onion chicken teriyaki sub.

I'll take Nice and choice of fusilli with chicken in pesto, pasta carbonara, or pizza with arugala and proscuttio all day long, thank you. I was le'sad that Brad Williams talked me out of dinner on Sunday night to go to Ironman VIP and eat fried something and sliders. Still mad about it.

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Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn