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Marathon Training Programs
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Last year I ran Seattle in 3:23 - then IMC in 4:13 - this year I am doing Vancouver Marathon and IMF - looking at following Hal Higdon's Advance Program - anyone used it before? I was thinking some of the milage for the during the week runs was light - any comments from those that have used it or the better runners / ex runners on the forum?
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Re: Marathon Training Programs [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a big fan of "one size fits all" training programs because they pretty much encompass the same basic principles and leave the really big important decisions up to the runner i.e beginner, intermediate, or advanced program before they even have a chance to see what kind of shape they are in.

You might start off in the intermediate program for a few weeks and before you know it you are free wheeling and running well below your actual capabilities...logically you should jump to a more advanced program but so many people treat these programs as tablets of stone that must be followed to the letter that they continue to train at a level below their actual ability and never live up to their natural talent.

If you think Higdon's mileage is light run more miles; sure you can stick to the basics of the plan whatever that may be but add more miles...either easy or hard depending on how you feel. Hal Higdon doesn't know you from a hole in the ground and he doesn't presume to know what plan is best for you. His plan is just a framework around which you can tailor runs according to how you feel and how your goals may change throughout your training and your progression.

I've seen plans written by reputable coaches where they ask the runner to begin with a 5K time trial to determine what program they should use....this is complete baloney! 18-20 weeks is a long time and if you bomb a lousy 5K on day one there's no reason you should be stuck in a beginner program for that length of time when in reality you're capable of running 70-80 miles a week no problem.

My marathon best is 2:37 after 4 years of running and I've never followed a coaching schedule...just did what felt right and pushed myself hard when I needed to.

IMHO once you have built your base and are running those 20+ milers on the weekends the single most important run you can do to prepare for the marathon is the midweek 12-14 miler at MP; if you can get 4-5 of those in the bank in the weeks before your taper you'll surprise yourself on race day how easy MP feels.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill
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Re: Marathon Training Programs [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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Mid week mileage shouldn't make that much difference. Better to go longer on the weekend (buidling to maybe 18-23) and run shorter but a tad faster during the week. I haven't seen Higdon's program, but I would be surprised if it substantially differed from any of the others out there.


Cousin Elwood - Team Over-the-hill Racing
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Re: Marathon Training Programs [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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I just finished Higdon's 18 week [i]Advanced II[/i] marathon program, and ran a small marathon in Olympia, WA. Now I am doing his little between marathon program to prepare for a 50 km trail run next weekend. I was very happy with the advanced program. Coming off a long season of tri training, it seemed that I had a lot more time on my hands. Since running is BY FAR my worst sport of the three, it was challenging enough for me, I chose the [i]Advanced II[/i] because of the two or three speed sessions per week. It was my first marathon (I'm doing two IM's in 2005, so I though covering the distance would be a good idea), and i was very happy with my 3:51 (the downpour at mile 22 slowed me). It's true that one-size-fits-all programs don't always work, but I think Higdon's is pretty good.

-Colin

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: Marathon Training Programs [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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I have used Higdons Intermediate II plan 3x and his advanced II plan 2x. The total weekly mileage between the 2 plans is about the same. Maybe 3-5 miles farther on the advanced II plan. There is a lot more speed work on the advanced II plan. I usually run around a 3 hour marathon. I stuck to the advanced plan religiosly. Never missed a workout in 18 weeks and was fully healthy for the Atlanta marathon. I ended up running the same time as always. However my 10k time has improved from 36 to 34. All in all I think the 10 - 20 mile runs on the weekend are not enough now matter how much speed work you do. My advice would be to use the Intermediate II plan but substitute speed work on Tuesday and run longer on Sunday.
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Re: Marathon Training Programs [Zulu] [ In reply to ]
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I think Higdon's basic programs are good if you are just trying to finish your first marathon. Based upon my experience and some complaints I have heard from runners much better than I am, his intermediate and advanced programs don't seem that good for trying to improve your times once you have a few marathons under your belt. He doesn't, for example, really have much of a clue about HRM training, and his advanced programs have you doing silly things like a 10 mile run at marathon race pace the day before you do a 20 mile run. I have heard some people rave about Pete Pfitzinger's book and his plans, but can't recommend it personally.
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