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My IM GI on the run course mystery
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I raced my second IM @ Florida this year. From racing my first IM I learned I really didn't prepare properly nutrition wise in training or execution. I finished a little over 11 hours but almost with 4.5 hours of that on the marathon.

One thing of note about me is that I'm a very heavy sweater with a lot of mineral content. I don't love the Gatorade Endurance stuff, especially the orange flavor but it is what they hand out on course.

Leading up to this years IM Florida I ate gels/used Gatorad Endurance to prep for the actual race in training. I found that on my run taking a (Sis) gel every three miles with a little water worked for me on long runs. Bike wise I found a (SiS) gels every 10 miles with a bottle of Gatorade Endurance per hour worked well for me with a bottle of water. I also wanted some easy metrics to key these feeds times as I somewhat experiemented with what worked on my long rides/runs/bricks. I really thought I'd dialed it in.

IM Florida take 2 started off with a better swim although I'd prefer to swim closer to 1:00 vs the 1:08 I swam. Honestly I swim so infrequently in open water it takes me a few minutes to get comfortable... I popped a SiS gel on the Aussie exit with a cup of water.

Bike went well pedaling a not too hard 4:47 although I messed up not turning off my bike computer a day or two prior and it died 28'sh miles in. Course is marked well for mileage and I took my gels on 10 mile increments as planned, hydrated with Gatorade Endurance and water like I'd trained.

Got off the bike feeling good other than my hips feeling super tight but that all loosened up pretty quick within a quarter mile or so. Was running sub 7 so backed off of that since the plan was to run easier than that. Popped a gel at 3 mile increments with a little water. Ran the first lap feeling okay and made the turn to run the second 13.1 miles and then my stomach just felt like it was knotted. As I approached 15 I decided to hold off that gel increment since my stomach felt so terrible and pushed it to 16.

From this point on it was if my stomach had shut down and it was just a sloshing nauseaous mess, then the vomiting started. I couldn't keep water down and that continued to the finish line unalbe to keep anything down, insane stomach ache, walk/run/job to the finish @ 10:14

Made my way to the med tent for that walk of shame. They tried to rehydrate me orally, gave me Zofran to help with the nasea, but the vomiting continued. Finally they hooked me up to an IV and that really got me sorted.

I digress, I'm really wondering if anyone has some advice that might be of use if I try and attempt IM #3. I'd really like to at least run/jog my way to a finish without vomiting my way there. Seems like I hit a dehydration wall at 7.5-8'sh hours that turn my race into a survival thing.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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Bad stomach can have a lot of different causes - but it doesn't sound like you were getting a lot of electrolytes in. Gatorade endurance has a good amount but perhaps not enough, especially if you're a heavy sweater. Not enough sodium, etc. could have prevented the water intake.

Could also have been overall dehydration or simple overexertion. IM is a long day and a hard race to crack.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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xeon wrote:
I raced my second IM @ Florida this year. From racing my first IM I learned I really didn't prepare properly nutrition wise in training or execution. I finished a little over 11 hours but almost with 4.5 hours of that on the marathon.

One thing of note about me is that I'm a very heavy sweater with a lot of mineral content. I don't love the Gatorade Endurance stuff, especially the orange flavor but it is what they hand out on course.

Leading up to this years IM Florida I ate gels/used Gatorad Endurance to prep for the actual race in training. I found that on my run taking a (Sis) gel every three miles with a little water worked for me on long runs. Bike wise I found a (SiS) gels every 10 miles with a bottle of Gatorade Endurance per hour worked well for me with a bottle of water. I also wanted some easy metrics to key these feeds times as I somewhat experiemented with what worked on my long rides/runs/bricks. I really thought I'd dialed it in.

IM Florida take 2 started off with a better swim although I'd prefer to swim closer to 1:00 vs the 1:08 I swam. Honestly I swim so infrequently in open water it takes me a few minutes to get comfortable... I popped a SiS gel on the Aussie exit with a cup of water.

Bike went well pedaling a not too hard 4:47 although I messed up not turning off my bike computer a day or two prior and it died 28'sh miles in. Course is marked well for mileage and I took my gels on 10 mile increments as planned, hydrated with Gatorade Endurance and water like I'd trained.

Got off the bike feeling good other than my hips feeling super tight but that all loosened up pretty quick within a quarter mile or so. Was running sub 7 so backed off of that since the plan was to run easier than that. Popped a gel at 3 mile increments with a little water. Ran the first lap feeling okay and made the turn to run the second 13.1 miles and then my stomach just felt like it was knotted. As I approached 15 I decided to hold off that gel increment since my stomach felt so terrible and pushed it to 16.

From this point on it was if my stomach had shut down and it was just a sloshing nauseaous mess, then the vomiting started. I couldn't keep water down and that continued to the finish line unalbe to keep anything down, insane stomach ache, walk/run/job to the finish @ 10:14

Made my way to the med tent for that walk of shame. They tried to rehydrate me orally, gave me Zofran to help with the nasea, but the vomiting continued. Finally they hooked me up to an IV and that really got me sorted.

I digress, I'm really wondering if anyone has some advice that might be of use if I try and attempt IM #3. I'd really like to at least run/jog my way to a finish without vomiting my way there. Seems like I hit a dehydration wall at 7.5-8'sh hours that turn my race into a survival thing.

You didn't have power info or stress measure to see if you were overpowering, so it could be that?

You started to fast like you said, once you flip the switch the body can't go back. You pour gasoline on the fire and it burns hard. even if you slow your run pace that surge takes the body away from long course pacing and into short course pacing so you are now on borrow time until the system can't function.

Best of luck with the next one. If it was easy no one would do it.

Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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Every time I've used regular Gatorade or Gatorade Endurance from the bottles I get an upset stomach and cannot use the rest of my nutrition strategy.

Gatorade from powder is just fine for me. I don't know what it is about the pre-mixed bottle stuff but it just kills my race.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like a lot of gel but yet probably not enough calories on the bike. 1 gel every 10mi is like 2 gels an hour so about 200 cal/hr? You should think about increasing that to about 350 - 400 and use some kind of liquid form of nutrition and maybe use gels only when you have a low energy patch during the bike. Not knowing your watts you probably bike too hard too and starting the run at sub 7 pace when your best IM run split was 4:30 is pretty stupid.
You should focus on executing and putting together a better pre-race and bike nutrition plan to give yourself a good amount of energy stored before you start the run. Go run a 8:45 pace and prove that you can run a sub 4h IM marathon before you attempt to break the AG run course record :-)

What's your CdA?
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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My first IM I had all kinds of GI issues from mile 15 of the run until the end.

For every subsequent tri I have raced I have done 100% liquid nutrition with great results. I feel pretty strongly that going all liquid has been a game changer for me.

On the run, if things are going sideways, Coke is always the way to go. Simple carbs. Fluids. Caffeine. Easily digested.

I personally get all of my electrolytes from my bike nutrition. Once I'm off the bike, I just drink coke and water for the entire marathon and have never had an issue, running several 3:25-35 marathons.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [G. Belson] [ In reply to ]
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G. Belson wrote:
Sounds like a lot of gel but yet probably not enough calories on the bike. 1 gel every 10mi is like 2 gels an hour so about 200 cal/hr? You should think about increasing that to about 350 - 400 and use some kind of liquid form of nutrition and maybe use gels only when you have a low energy patch during the bike. Not knowing your watts you probably bike too hard too and starting the run at sub 7 pace when your best IM run split was 4:30 is pretty stupid.
You should focus on executing and putting together a better pre-race and bike nutrition plan to give yourself a good amount of energy stored before you start the run. Go run a 8:45 pace and prove that you can run a sub 4h IM marathon before you attempt to break the AG run course record :-)

All really good points.

I shoot for 4-6 calories/kg/hour on the bike and 1-2 calories/kg/hour on the run.

In training for IM (which I am currently not doing) I ran 100s (maybe (1,000s) of miles at 8:00 pace, my goal IM pace.

My fastest IM marathon, I came off the bike feeling amazing. Went out of T2 with another guy, running "easy". I looked down at my watch and it said: 6:45..... I asked the other guy, "what does your watch say?" He says, "6:45." It was hard to believe because it felt so good. I absolutely put the brakes on and got to my 8:00 pace which felt like walking as he pulled away from me. I saw him again at mile 16. He was walking. I was hurting, as everyone does in the IM run. But I ran a 3:22 that day.

IM is a lesson in smart pacing. It's going to suck at some point in time, but you want to push that suck as far back in the race as possible. Running the first few miles at 1 to 2 minutes per mile faster than your realistic pace is a recipe for disaster.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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Racing vs. Training
Race sweat rates are often higher than training. Durations are almost always longer. So, total sodium loss and water loss on race day is more than in training. What works in training often doesn't work on race day. Which makes me chuckle because we've all read "nothing new on race day" published everywhere anyone writes anything about race nutrition. Hogwash. I digress. The maxim should be "slightly different on race day, but try to mimic it in training"

Sodium
SIS gels are low sodium. Gatorade Endurance on course is often dilute. I bet you consumed less than half the sodium you needed.

Consider doubling (or more) your sodium intake and letting water consumption increases follow, if you end up thirsty on course. Keep the carb intake high, as you did, or higher.

Rationale: Dehydration causes gut shutdown. Mild dehydration causes gut slowdown. To continue handling your fuel (carbs) & hydration (water + sodium), you need to stay on top of the latter, earlier in the race. ie, more sodium, and probably more water as a result of slightly increased thirst.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Good advice here. Did you do any bigger training days in your prep (5-6 hours of biking/running in 1 session -- 3 bike/2 run, 4-5 bike, 1 run). I get the emphasis put on nutrition but it's a 2 way street. Even if the paces didn't seem too hot, the 4:47 bike & starting the run off @ sub-7 pace was probably aggressive for you on the day. That effort demanded more electrolytes compared to regular training days. The effort led to stomach distress. Agree with trying something like Coke later in an IM. You can also take advantage of the personal fluids bags. Start with a handheld out of T2. Carry gels/sodium with you. You can play around with stuff like that.
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Re: My IM GI on the run course mystery [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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This was exactly me for years whenever I did anything over about 5 hours. Horribly nauseous, thinking only about stomach, unable to drink or eat, vomiting when I force myself to drink. Still is when I forget the lesson.

What finally cracked it for me was dramatically upping the salt intake. The white crust over my training clothes should have been a clue.

Last IM (Copenhagen, so not hot) I had 16 grams of table salt with the ~560 grams of table sugar in my Dr Harrison-inspired fuel bottle on the bike, and then 2-3 salt tabs on the run. First time ever I finished without gastro probs. I even felt the sloshy sicky feeling coming on about 5 km into the run, and the first tab almost immediately sent it packing.

Could be worth a shot!
Last edited by: James W: Jan 17, 24 5:39
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