Man...that's some revealing dialogue from the team doctor.

I just read the Cyclingnews story as well

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...004/jul04/jul26news2

At least this one does not attack Armstrong directly, however now Tyler will have to respond

Why did the doctor wait 7 years to speak out, the same day LA wins 6 Tours? Seems like sour grapes

Highly doubt it's sour grapes.

"Why did the doctor wait 7 years to speak out, the same day LA wins 6 Tours? Seems like sour grapes "


EXACTLY! What a stunning act of moral courage; keep quiet for seven years and then jump on the band wagon when you see your chance to get some headlines.

Chris

It could just be sour grapes, but if it is, why wait 7 years to say this? It could be that he is telling the truth, but has waited for so long to say something because of the code of silence that seems to be crumbling these days.

I "hope" it is just sour grapes, and I hope that TH is clean. Who knows?

Just that with the allegations surrounding Lance and his associates, and now this, well, you get the idea.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

It would have been headlines 7 years ago as much as today.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Highly doubt it's sour grapes.

Then why wait 7 years? Did it take him that long to work up the courage? Or maybe he had to sell the rights to the story before he went public. It might not be sour grapes, but it sure lacks credibility.

Chris

probably the whole code of silence issue.

I hope Tyler's not guilty, too, but...

Sour Grapes are Performance Enhancing Drugs?

Even if it isn't jealousy, he still isn't saying, "I procured EPO, and personally injected it into Tyler's and others' arms." Therefore is still isn't any way near 'proof' of doping.

No it wouldn't. Without the Lance-cancer-TdF story nobody would care about the USPS team or if they doped.

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Even if you are right and they are all on drugs, what I am SO tired of are all these people who come out and make accusations from long ago with no proof. This guy can't produce an ounce of proof to back up his statements. If you can't come to the table with some proof then you should shut your mouth. So far if we believe all these people then all we really know is who was doping 5 years ago. Who cares?

It is interesting that no one can ever prove there story and it is always these mysterious conversation that happened way back when. If the code of silence is breaking down then I want a teamate or coach to make an accusation about what is happening right now.

It seems to me there is more to gain for the people saying these things than there is for them to lose.

Where there's smoke there's fire. Judging by his work history he is a respected doc.

Prime Alliance Team Physician, June 2002 - 2003
Mercury Team Physician, 1998-2002
USA Cycling, Medical Director, 1997 & 1998
Summer Olympics Cycling Venue Physician, 1996
USPS Pro Cycling Team Physician, 1993-1996
Tour Du Pont Physician, 1991-1993
Spago-Rossin Cycling Team, 1992
Coors Light Racing Team Physician, 1991
US Naitonal Teams Senior Physician, 1988-1990
Olympic Trials Staff Physician, 1988
U.S. & Canadian National Teams, Senior World Championships, 1986

http://www.teamhealthnet.com/...prenticesteffen.html

You're misreading what I'm saying. I'm not arguing about doping. I think it goes on. Personally, I don't think Lance dopes....but that's another thread.:)

My point was, first, the timing of all these "announcements". These individuals give up a lot of credibility by timing their announcements to garner them the most press coverage. Second, you say I (we) am (are) in denial, but I simply don't see any evidence. Okay, you have one witness (who I would say is a co-conspirator, if there is a conspiricy) who says Tyler talked to him about doping. There is no other evidence of any kind to implicate Tyler Hamilton in any kind of doping. I mean the guy barely has a couple good races a year (good=not hurt in a crash). J

I have never denied that doping happens. All I have ever asked for is that before you determine that someone is guilty, you have some proof. Millar confessed…that’s pretty good proof in my book. Others have tested positive…again I call that proof. What I don’t consider proof or even evidence of a problem is unsupported comments from a single person related to an incident that happened almost a decade ago. I won’t even hold you to the ‘reasonable doubt’ standard, just give me any solid, physical evidence of doping before making accusations.

Chris

A team doctor is pretty good evidence.

You guys who assume everyone is on something are as misled and shortsighted as anyone who thinks doping doesn't happen. In the U.S. a doctor saying someone asked him about something with no actual prrof of such conversation is called hear-say(sp) and it is not evidence. In fact it is not even allowed in a court of law. Everyone knows doping is happening, but that doesn't mean that every accusation is true or that every cyclist is on something anymore than every single baseball player is on steroid or every single track athlete is on THG.

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Slowguy

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A team doctor who says he administered doping products would be good testimony. If he had documentation of procuring doping products it would help.

If a rider asks the doctor, "Does EPO work?" Does that mean he's a doper? Noper.

Even if the conversation happened as he says, it certainly isn't evidence of doping.

A team doctor is pretty good evidence.


Evidence of what? That he and Tyler had a conversation about doping? Maybe he misunderstood the conversation, maybe his memory isn't perfect after 7 years, maybe he has an agenda aside from setting the truth free...maybe....maybe

Ask any lawyer whether he'd rather have eye-witness testimony or physical evidence.

All you have is proof that this doctor SAYS Tyler came to him and they discussed doping. He further CLAIMS that he was fired for refusing to play along with the doping.

Perhaps...the question of doping came up and he was willing to supply the drugs, and he was fired for that reason, and how he's playing CYA and grab some headlines at the same time.

I'm not in denial about the doping problem, but this sort of thing just makes the whole situation more murky. It was interesting reading the comments, but they are proof of nothing.

Come back when you can show me a box of EPO or a positive drug test.

Chris

The more and more people keep coming forward the more suspicious these accusations become. It just isn't one person coming forward...It's a number of people who keep coming forward. I unfortunately see another incident like the one in 1998 coming to fruition.

The biggest problem I have with the "number of people" making accusations is that it seems that all of them have a beef. Almost all of them claim to have been fired for not playing ball, which may be true, but it has to make you at least consider that they are covering their own butts or getting back at their former employers for some percieved slight.

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Slowguy

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What beef would the team doctor have?

I didn't think USPS was a Pro team in those years (93-96). Maybe in 96. The USPS team I thought formed from the old Subaru-Mongomery Montgomery/Bell and from the Motorola teams. I am probably wrong...

I believe the team doctor said he was fired for not giving doping agents to the team. If he was indeed fired, he might have some bad feelings about that. Here's a for instance. What if the doctor was actually fired for offering or trying to push doping agents on the team and thought his name might come out in the current investigations. To get ahead of this, he might come out and say that the riders approached him, and he refused, and he was fired for it. That way he gets his name on the right side of this from the start. I don't know if that's what happened, but it is certainly not outside of the realm of possibility.

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Slowguy

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