Per the info on bicyclerollingresistance.com, the Speed is roughly 3 W faster per tire than the Pro. Can you notice it? Probably not, but the stopwatch can.

I've looked at all the data, but it's hard to say what 3 watts actually translates into in terms of time or perception or feel. I'm really more curious about real world usage given I've already poured through the data. So I guess I should rephrase my question a bit.

For those that have used them both, do you notice it while riding either anectodaly or quantitatively?

How big of a difference is the chance of a puncture for strictly Tri related use?

What has been the mileage in tire life?

Mounting harder with one verse the other?

That's also at around 30kph and for one tire. I've found the differences in line but bigger in the real world. At 40kph you're looking at around 10w total.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Do you prefer them over the conti 5000?

for racing TTs, yes. For any other road riding/training/racing, I don't prefer anything over the 5000. That's not to say that I've tried lots of tires, of course, but of those I've tried, I'm happy with the 5000

I'm quite happy with the Corsa Pro as a 5000 alternative. Tried it out for no particular reason, just experimentation. Fine grip. No noticeable issues yet with puncture resistance. Holds air well (with sealant). And while BRR indicates it's a bit slower than the 5000TR, Aerocoach has them effectively equivalent. 27.2W for the 26mm Corsa Pro, 27.3W for the 25mm 5000TR.

Also, fwiw, at 45kph - significantly faster than BRR's test speed - Aerocoach has the 25mm Corsa Speed at 21.3W. So about 6W faster than the Corsa Pro for a pair of tires while going pretty quick.

So the CS is 100% the TT tire and "good tarmac" road racing tire. For training or rough roads, I'd fall back to the 5000TR or Corsa Pro.

I emailed Vittoria asking if they're releasing a 28mm version of the Corsa Speed 24. No bueno.

BRR has the GP 5000 TT in 28 at basically the same RR as the 25 Corsa Speed. May be a good alternative if ride compliance is a target (which I admittedly am looking for).

Is there any data out there showing the aero loss on 28 vs 25? I know there is the 105 rule but I can't find anything showing the actual loss at various yaw angles. I'm curious how much of an effect it has.

The Corsa Speed remains faster than the Corsa Pro but you should expect us to release a new Corsa Pro Speed at some point - as ridden by Van Aert for the Belgian championship, Jos van Emden for the Dutch championship, and Vingegaard for the TdF... so a pretty good validation of how fast it can be!

If I were in your shoes for the time being, I'd use the Speed 25 for anything that's pure TT. And the Corsa Pro in either 26 or 28 for anything tri related. For the Corsa Pro, there is a marginal aero benefit to the 26 but once you add a less than perfect tarmac in real life conditions, we have found the 28 to be on par or better. This is what I ride for most races. Of course, one should ideally test also taking into consideration the wheels you ride.

Watts are one thing but as you mention, comfort and grip are another and we are fairly confident that we score high(er) on those two in combination with a fast compound and tread.

Shoot me a DM if any additional questions, and depending on where you're based, I can try and get you a discount for our website.

 


Just saw a YouTube video with Dan Bingham

Yesterday his team won the team pursuit and he won the gold for the individual

He said he rides Grand Prix 5000 TT Rs with latex innertube.

They're a good tire, but not as aero as the 5000 TT. They're also about $20-30 cheaper than Contis. I think the 5000 TT is a better all around choice, and arguably more puncture resistant. That said the Speeds are great tires for the rear where tire shape is less important. I've had pretty good luck with both tires.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Remember that in this case, the whole innertube/no innertube thing is more about what is allowed on the track. Tubeless with sealant is a disaster waiting to happen on the track. Ever see a tire with sealant explode/come off the rim and a slick of sealant all over the track, especially with the poor guys in position 2,3 and 4

Also remember that the rubber Dan gets and the rubber you get may not be the same. Speaking from experience :-)

Or needed on the track. When you're wiping down the tires with a rag before and after riding, and carrying the bike even on the infield where errant staples or something might be lying around the odds of a flat are pretty low.

Yeah my testing of the 5000TT showed a higher Crr compared to the VeloFlex. It wasn't a ton, so maybe Crr+Aero wins out, but the feel of the 5000TT on the track was not as good as the Veloflex. As ever, more testing is required.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Recently tested two bikes side by side ad nauseum

The new fancy Canyon track bike used by the Danes. Zipp wheels, GP5000TT. The bike ships from Canyon is this configuration.
vs Argon Electro pro, Ghibli wheels, Vittoria Oro

Same helmet (Met) skinsuit (noPinz). Same saddle, Identical to the mm fit.

Both VERY consistently within .003 CDA assuming identical CRR.

.003 is a huge margin given the speeds these guys go. I'd say this might be the best scenario for a wind tunnel as it is extremely hard to nail down a really good number considering how hard it is to ride solo at +60kph.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

Pre Tokyo we worked with a National team on using motors to aero test at 60kph and not kill the riders :-)

Interesting. How were the motors mounted to not upset the airflow? I'm guessing that might be trade secret. ha.

Recently had a national team guy come to the tunnel because he wanted to go through iterations at 60kph. Interestingly the somewhat basic skinsuit was faster than all the fancy base layer ones. He mentioned they'd seen this in the team testing where those tended to fall apart, aerodynamically, over 60kph.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

What a coincidence, I fall apart over 60 kph, too.

Joking aside, will you share what 'basic' suit was faster than the fancy ones?

Genius! Thanks for the insight and idea.

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nz
rst, then slowtwitch lurker since '93

It was a Louis Garneau suit.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

thx.

I was hoping it might have been a basic Velotec, they're pretty affordable.

That’s always a good choice. But remember this is at speeds that very people can do. He’s a team pursuiter, so results might not be applicable

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

The bike leg of a tri is a TT. Why treat them any differently?

I thought the same. Wondering if he isn't referring to higher volume and comfort on IM length Tris.

But even so, could go 28 with Conti TT....