According to the article, he was low on natural T, in his 40s, and taking a clinical dose. This doesn't seem to support the 'widespread PED' hypothesis.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I have zero issue with actors doing this, especially action stars, as their job is to look like they can beat the shit out of everyone.

Dwayne Johnson is 51. Have you ever seen a 51 year old look like that? Hugh Jackman is 55 and is shredded again for Deadpool 3.

Even younger dudes like Chris Hemsworth for Thor or Zac Efron’s new movie role.

They’re not in an athletic competition.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I'm not entirely sure he's telling the truth about being "natty" in Season 1.

Well we're just walking about one person, so "widespread" is a separate issue, but let's put to bed the idea the poor guy just had "low T." He very likely took large doses to get huge like many male action stars do. With Arnie being the OG. Per GMAN, I don't have much problem with actors doing it - just hope they don't screw up their hormones for life. There's no such thing as a "clinical dose" to correct "Not being swole enough to pass as Reacher."

The "real Reacher" would never have been into "cosmetic chemistry," though. :)

I was wondering about that. He says 600mg, per week I presume. Google fu suggests that's quite a bit more than your typical HRT dose. That also assumes he's being honest and isn't on anabolic steroids too, or the SERMS or SARMS that are all the rage nowadays.

I assume most any ripped actor is taking something. Of course Arnold did, Stallone, the Rock, etc. I'd bet Brad Pitt did for movies like Snatch.

"That's what I was trying to avoid, a conversation about body mass..."

I was wondering about that. He says 600mg, per week I presume. Google fu suggests that's quite a bit more than your typical HRT dose.
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He's a bigger dude. Probably needs more than your typical dose just to achieve baseline.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

My thoughts on Efron is he's enjoying the fruits of all the HGH. His body in Baywatch was pretty extreme - I guess if you're going up on screen against Johnson, there must be incredible pressure to be in cartoonish shape.

As Trail (I think) said, I don't believe Ritchson was not having some assistance. I think he said he got to Season 2 size naturally, then started TRT afterwards...

Like you, I don't have an issue with them taking some supplements to get that size. It's a hell of a lot of work and most guys who've ever been in a gym regularly will know you have to put the work in. Reminds me of Tom Hardy owning it when asked the question about steroids.

i'll chime in with experience...
i'm 57 and started testosterone about 5yrs ago and can only say good things about the results. i lift moderate weights 5 days/week and run 3.5-4 miles 5 days/week and was definitely suffering pre-testosterone therapy in terms of experiencing discomfort during these activities + slow or even painful recovery. was also feeling run-down most days of the week. about 3 months after starting testosterone it largely went away - joints feel better, higher energy, better workouts, etc. i have not noticed any anxiety or aggression, acne, etc.

i take 1.5ml via injection once a week. body stats: 5' 6" and 133 lbs.

my wife also does it and the affect on her libido has been life-changing.

Glad you and the wife are getting after it again.

You kids have fun. Stay safe.

ha! that is fantastic...

I keep considering it. Just tired of the constant aches and pains, niggling injuries, not being able to go as hard as I want in the gym. Libido has dropped a lot recently too. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on trying Androxal, which isn't exogenous testosterone but increases endogenous testosterone production. Seems like less side effects and won't shut down natural production.

You can get pretty ripped and jacked without steroids. You won't get the bodybuilder bulk, but you can put on really good size with just eating a ton and lifting heavy.

Getting ripped requires painstaking dieting and counting calories of everything you eat.

Getting to ten percent bodyfat can be done naturally by anyone, it just sucks and is a pain to do it. Getting to 7 and 8 percent, and maintaining huge size, you are probably getting a little help from pharmaceuticals.


Being 190 at 12 percent BF is very impressive in the real world.

Brad Pitt in Fight club could be done without drugs. Ripped but not huge mass.

Drago in Rocky IV...drugs. Huge and ripped.


But more power to anyone that wants to take roids, TRT or whatever for whatever reason they want assuming it is legal where they live.

Reminds me of a pro cyclist, when asked if he was on something,"I'm on my bike 6 hours a day".
He could be natty...

Your wife takes testerone as well?

yes, albeit in much smaller doses, but still once weekly. i believe she also takes some level of estrogen and some other OTC supplements.
the change in her demeanor and overall energy is very noticeable if she skips a shot for a week or two.

The T seems to have him fired up about his Christian brothers and sisters.

But as proud as he is of his Christianity, he also calls out those who claim to share his faith for becoming the kind of "vitriolic tribe" that "is so antithetical to what Jesus was calling us to be and to do." In particular, Ritchson is baffled how some who claim to be Christians could embrace someone like ex-reality show host & multi-impeached ex-POTUS Donald Trump – someone whom Ritchson does not mince words in his description. "Trump is a rapist and a con man, and yet the entire Christian church seems to be treating him like he's their poster child, and it's unreal. I don't understand it." While he proudly wears his Christian faith, Ritchson does not affiliate himself with the Catholic Church – and the actor is once again brutally honest with his reasoning for it. "It's worth saying that the atrocities that are happening in the church that are being actively covered up, even to this day with people not being held accountable, is repulsive," Ritchson explains. "I can't, for one second, support the Catholic Church while there are still cardinals, bishops, and priests being passed around with known pedophilic tendencies."

But, they are in competition for roles, so in that regard I don't know that it's significantly different.

A guy keeping his physique for a role he's established in is less problematic, as with Reacher using T as he ages. But guys like Dave Bautista, who got their roles via career path that unquestionably benefitted from if not depended entirely on PED abuse, that's another story.

I have no problem with recreational bodybuilders putting whatever they want in their bodies. Not my business. Same for aging guys who want to put on muscle or just keep what they have. But it gets a little murky when your paycheck depends on that, because it's a paycheck that may have gone to someone else if not for PEDs, which ultimately is the problem with PEDs in sports.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

These guys fought off one of the largest, best trained and technically advanced armies for decades.

Look who buff they are!!!



https://images.app.goo.gl/9Ar4wBGioBeiifzY8


This guy won some body beautiful body competitions, fought against imaginary villains and then got into politics.



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...gy6qa4isStBMZw&s

We are living in strange times....

I'm with you. I've considered it. Most of my hobbies are physical, my job is fairly physical, and as I get older I've noticed a STEEP decline in capacity to exercise, recovery, and lots more nagging injuries.

I have a weird aversion to medicating away my problems though and am generally horribly resistant to adding more small tasks to my routine, even something as small as a weekly self administered injection. I have a hard enough time remembering to take a daily multivitamin. I also don't want to start something that, should I want to stop, could have negative side effects.

If you decide to hop on, I'd be interested to hear about your experiences.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

The dude looks like he orders his TRT in 40 gallon drums.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

The significant difference is in athletics covered by written anti-doping policy you're signing - usually literally - your name to essentially a code of conduct.

In acting there is no written code of conduct. Drugs of all conceivable kinds, cosmetic surgeries.

The risk is that if steroid users start to win all the action bro jobs, it pushes more and more younger guys into drug use at times it could harm their long term health...or long term fertility.

I was thinking about this while watching the (not terrible!) Roadhouse remake.. Jake Gyllenhaal might have been "natty". Probably not. But he wasn't egregiously swole. Conor McGregor OTOH - sure looked injected to the gills. And USADA recently decided to walk from UFC....over Conor McGregor not wanting to spend six months in the anti-doping pool before his first competition.

I'm still putting it off, it's not cheap, about $1500 a year. Every time I'm about to lay it out to my wife it seems like some biggish expense comes up. FWIW, what I'm considering are oral drugs not testosterone injections.

I'm 49, turning 50

I am interested and do weights alternate days and bjj 3-4 times a week

I don't think I need it for injuries and having never weight trained I think there's still significant scope to improve without T

However, I think sleep would improve and recovery and I'd be able to do more but once you start there's no going back.

What happens if you stop taking it? Does taking the supplement slow down/stop your body from producing it naturally?

Not true at all.

Your natural production of test will shut down when on TRT. Your body sees all this exogenous test in your system and thus signals your natural production to stop.
If you stop, your natural production will typically/eventually start up again, but there are also meds your doc can give you to help that process.

Good to know about the oral drugs. I had heard that injection was most effective, and most people who start with the cream eventually self.injwft.

That, and as I understand it requires somewhat regular follow up and blood work to make sure you levels stay where they need to be.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

eh, you can look on google for pics of arnold when off the sauce

Not sure what that has to do with it? The part I had bolded, I assumed they meant that medically you cannot go off TRT once you start it. And thats not true. Sure, your test level will be low again, but nothing stopping you from going back to that.

I meant you can't come off without consequences, you can obviously stop.

I've seen some papers suggesting you might got back to a lower level than when you started.

I have a friend who's early 30's and has fucked up his endocrine system from juicing so badly he has been on it since he was a teenager.

It's like a lifetime netflix subscription

OK but you are talking about something completely different than TRT. You may as well talk about the evils of advil, and then compare it to someone snorting oxycodone.

Also, anyone who believes 'Reacher' got his physique by just using normal TRT really doesn't understand how these drugs work lol.

I've never understood the stigma about people using TRT. No one has an issue with drugs to lose weight, or antidepressants, or adhd drugs to improve attention, or cosmetic surgery. But a drug to make you feel more energetic and maybe gain a couple pounds of muscle (again, if you think you will get a body builder physique from TRT, you don't understand)........nooooo......baaaad........evil!

I have a family history of prostate cancer, along with genetic high BP, so will prob never be a great candidate for TRT, but I certainly have no issue with other people using it, assuming they aren't in a sport where it is banned.

I think there are big differences between taking testosterone to get level up but still within physiological levels, or even taking moderate amounts of drugs to get somewhere beyond that, and then the absolute crazy stuff serious bodybuilders and strength athletes are taking.

Of course and there is a massive difference but I'm not sure we completely understand the long term impact of TRT replacent.

Sure the more we investigate the more we'll discover. Still in the context of fucking up your endocrine system, I'd think we have a pretty good idea by now if something that extreme was going to be an expected outcome of typical testosterone replacement therapy.

I think the main issues comes from individuals self medicating.

Slightly off piste but germaine to the above comment, my SiL, besides being utterly insufferable for anything more than thirty seconds, self medicated her thyroid. That was extremely stupid. She has several degrees (science but non medical, as you probably could guess) and I suspect she decided she had a thyroid issue to avoid eating a healthy diet and doing some exercise. She didn’t involve a doctor in this self diagnosis and subsequent thyroid drugs. My brother had to tempt ger out of the house for a walk with a bar of chocolate last time they stayed at mine. I shit you not.

Long story short, there are some real idiots out there, even well educated idiots, and TRT is readily available.

There is a massive difference between education and intelligence, which we see demonstrated on these boards quite regularly.

Exactly. And low T can cause issues as well.
Also worth noting all the extreme use of PED's by pro athletes over the past.....80 years?? But even just looking at the past 30-40 years, and go figure, no wild outbreak of cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc among athletes.
Not saying everyone should use TRT, of course not, but the uneducated assumptions about it that so many people make is just ridiculous.

ZE has stated an interviews that he hated having to be Baywatch buffed because it was very difficult to maintain and hard on his body and mind.

And regarding women and T - My surgeon put me on HRT after my hysterectomy. I was on it until I started back bike racing and would have had to apply for a TUE. The surgeon said she could not in good faith, sign the TUE, since there was an option to change to a different medication that did not have T. I definitely did not feel as good mentally or physically after the change of meds.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

How did she get the thyroid drugs? I wouldn't think they would be so readily available as something like testosterone.

I don’t know what she was self medicating with, but Cytomel/T3 for instance is readily available due to its (mis)use in bodybuilding and sports.

My impression is there is as great, or even greater opposition to those things than HRT.

I guess my impression is based on what I see and hear and I haven't seen any polls on the subject.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

we have seen bodybuilders live pretty short lifespans, but yes it could be due to high dosage. Only time will tell on these TRT from legitamite medical doctors. Though Ive seen in around here some older folks (70-80 years) taking TRT and eventually dying (it was shocking as their bodies looked like 20 year old).... I can only think the dosage needs to be adjusted for every 10 years, and the current protocol is simply being whatever is a for a 40 year old - is just too much for someone at 80

Isn't 80 a not so unusual age for some to die at? I'd rather die at 80 with a 20yo body, than die at 80 while feeling like shit.

Agree, is TRT touted as increasing longevity? Seems like what I see is more concern it may increase risk of CVD and some cancers. Not sure what the evidence is for that, I know I saw a study a few months ago that didn't show any increase risk of CVD even in relatively high risk persons with TRT.

So far the only cancer 'link' is for someone who -already- has prostate cancer cells in their body. But even people who have had PC and beat it, have gone on TRT afterwards (due to some of the drugs / procedures used to fight PC shutting down their natural test production).