What’s going on America?

We're doing everything we can to fight inflation by finding more election year giveaways

Biden Announces Plan for National 12-Week Paid Family Leave (msn.com)

I see Dark Brandon is still living rent-free in your head.

The United States is the only nation in the developed world that does not require paid family or medical leave from work.

Poor Tyler didn't even read his link.



Only 12% of Americans are against paid family leave. Once again Tyler confirms he is on the fringe.

Americans Overwhelmingly Support Paid Family And Medical Leave | Navigator (navigatorresearch.org)

Poor Tyler didn't even read his link.



Only 12% of Americans are against paid family leave. Once again Tyler confirms he is on the fringe.

Americans Overwhelmingly Support Paid Family And Medical Leave | Navigator (navigatorresearch.org)

Many would support an 18yr paid leave so they can dump them at college before returning to work. People will want many things paid for by others. And the long Euro leaves can get replaced and are only guaranteed a new position similar to old position.

People could vote in 4hr work weeks but the companies would eventually fail and tax money from the company and employees would dry up and it would fail.

https://commission.europa.eu/...work-life-balance_en

We're doing everything we can to fight inflation by finding more election year giveaways

Biden Announces Plan for National 12-Week Paid Family Leave (msn.com)

Yet another strawman filled post.

Every other EUROPEAN SOCIALIST country has paid family leave, why can’t America?

It will always be interesting to me that the right wing will argue "we should do X,Y,Z because europe does it" for laws they want. Such as most of europe being to the right of the US before the repeal of roe v. wade.

But then on the other hand, when there is something that the right wing doesnt like - they argue "we cant do that because of socialism"

I would be fine with a paid maternity leave for 8-12 weeks for the first two kids.

Many would support an 18yr paid leave so they can dump them at college before returning to work. People will want many things paid for by others. And the long Euro leaves can get replaced and are only guaranteed a new position similar to old position.

People could vote in 4hr work weeks but the companies would eventually fail and tax money from the company and employees would dry up and it would fail.

https://commission.europa.eu/...work-life-balance_en

It will always be interesting to me that the right wing will argue "we should do X,Y,Z because europe does it" for laws they want. Such as most of europe being to the right of the US before the repeal of roe v. wade.

But then on the other hand, when there is something that the right wing doesnt like - they argue "we cant do that because of socialism"

I would be fine with a paid maternity leave for 8-12 weeks for the first two kids.

FIFY

Matt and Tyler will argue against it just because Biden is for it.

The reality is the vast majority of Republicans support paid family leave. Trump ran on passing it in 2015 and as President signed the bill that gave it to all 2 million Federal employees…….but if Biden says he wants to pass it the MAGA crowd starts screeching “Socialism!!”

I didn't argue against it. Just pointed out the flaws in your argument... because people want it! Hell, kids want chocolate and TV all day, and would "vote" for it... like 6th grade class presidents offering McDonald's and a soda machine.

and yet amazingly we seem to need it in an inflationary environment at exactly the time

that the guy who is losing all his parties important demo's wants to give away free stuff in order to buy votes.

Inflationary effect is probably pretty weak, being phased in over 10 years, and having hard caps. Just speculation, haven't seen the CBO crew weigh in on possible effects.


I don't know what "losing important demo's" means, but indeed it's very common for Presidential candidates to promise populist measures in election years, and this is a popular/populist measure. Certainly intentionally rolled out in an election year with political purpose. Vs. having pushed it the prior three years. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, though.

And the other major candidate is also rolling out popular/populist ideas in an election year...when he had 4 years to do it the prior time.

Fundamentally, elections are a form of popularity contest. So this isn't unexpected from either side.

The United States is the only nation in the developed world that does not require paid family or medical leave from work.

You didn’t point out any flaws. You posted a bunch of strawman that had nothing to do with the topic……but you knew that.

and yet amazingly we seem to need it in an inflationary environment at exactly the time

that the guy who is losing all his parties important demo's wants to give away free stuff in order to buy votes.

Wrong again Matt. "18 year paid leave" "4 hour work week" etc. are just simplistic strawmen......but you knew that so you now resort to your usual insults and deflection.

Why shouldn't America have paid family leave like the rest of the world? Try to answer with specifics, not deflection, insults, and strawmen.

You didn’t point out any flaws. You posted a bunch of strawman that had nothing to do with the topic……but you knew that.

Wrong again Matt. "18 year paid leave" "4 hour work week" etc. are just simplistic strawmen......but you knew that so you now resort to your usual insults and deflection.

Why shouldn't America have paid family leave like the rest of the world? Try to answer with specifics, not deflection, insults, and strawmen.

ThisIsIt wrote:

Clarification, it's other Americans. Seemingly one of the great fears of many conservatives is someone else will get something for free (in their view).

No doubt. The extravagant benefits they have received and continue to receive don't count, it is the thought of "someone else" receiving something that sets the dogs in the manger howling. The fascinating thing about conservatives' attitudes is the extent to which they are willing to waste money to protect this ideological position.

Despite being a radical communist nation, Australia was one of the last developed countries to introduce paid parental leave. In fact, more than 90% of large corporations were already offering some form of it voluntarily before it was made a formal requirement. The debate is therefor relatively recent.

What finally tipped the balance was not just the public desire for the very long list of social and wellbeing benefits. It was the many studies, including by our Productivity Commission and by right wing economic think tanks, showing that the combination of the multiplier effects of the expenditure, with the better use of human capital by providing a faster and smoother return to the workforce for parents, meant that the scheme would "more than pay for itself" and would be a significant net contributor to GDP. It doesn't cost, it earns.

The idea that the US "cannot afford" paid parental leave is false. It is, as you note, really just a fear of creeping social decency, which is socialism in sheep's clothing. It is a lot like their fear that the US "cannot afford" universal healthcare. As a result the US spends more than double the amount per capita on healthcare as comparison countries, including more government expenditure. What a collossal and scandalous waste. But as long as poor people are suffering and dying needlessly from treatable health conditions*, the right can smugly feel that they are keeping socialism at bay. Heck, it probably even shows that they aren't woke. Priorities.

*More than 26 000 Americans die each year because of lack of health insurance

Trump may have some crazy agendas, but slipping tax payer funded college post hoc is absolutely fucking bullshit from Biden. If you took a loan you pay it. If the government makes college tax payer funded then we have to pay it or vote out the people demanding it. But at least our tax money would be known ahead of time instead of stealing it to pay off loans people willingly took on in order to garner votes the party thought it didn't have otherwise. Bullshit.

Bullshit. Your crying antics devolve threads from rational discussion. My point was not strawman and you hide in claiming strawman. Just a continuance of your lies and obfuscation.

Wrong again Matt. "18 year paid leave" "4 hour work week" etc. are just simplistic strawmen......but you knew that so you now resort to your usual insults and deflection.

Why shouldn't America have paid family leave like the rest of the world? Try to answer with specifics, not deflection, insults, and strawmen.

Inflationary effect is probably pretty weak, being phased in over 10 years, and having hard caps. Just speculation, haven't seen the CBO crew weigh in on possible effects.



I don't know what "losing important demo's" means, but indeed it's very common for Presidential candidates to promise populist measures in election years, and this is a popular/populist measure. Certainly intentionally rolled out in an election year with political purpose. Vs. having pushed it the prior three years. That doesn't mean it's a bad idea, though.

And the other major candidate is also rolling out popular/populist ideas in an election year...when he had 4 years to do it the prior time.

Fundamentally, elections are a form of popularity contest. So this isn't unexpected from either side.

There are two issues here, which ought to be separated.

1. Democratic process — is Biden depriving voters of the chance to weigh in on this? Biden campaigned on this in 2020. He won. Voters will have a chance to vote on him again.

2. Should government support for education be prospective rather than post hoc? I agree with you. This is a lousy way of addressing the issue. We should focus the debate on costs going forward, not giving relief to those who chose to take on the loans.

I think his reasoning was clear, if false.

Americans are like reckless children who would eat chocolate for every meal. They can't be trusted to make grown up decisions in the way that "Europeans" (i.e. non-Americans) can.

I didn't argue against it you fool. I said I was fine with it multiple times in this thread. As usual you simply make up fake arguments that people haven't so you can argue what you wish. I simply said your premise of because people want it is not enough rationalization. Without infinite resources people can't have everything they want. Everytime you say yes to something you are effectively saying no no every other mutually exclusive possibility. We could afford much more if we stopped subsidizing other countries with our money.

For point 2 a major aspect is what about parents that paid so their kids had no loans or lower loans. They weren't simply all rich. They may have saved much better and limited expenditures in order to save this fund or make payments. The kids with loans may have had parents that spent more lavishly on cars, vacations, etc. Paying off loans they knowingly took while these payments are not available to those who already paid off school and may have worked through school is simply ridiculously unfair. And it is taxpayer money.

You really are deranged and mentally unstable.

Thanks for proving my point.

If the point was you are compulsive manipulating liar that constantly shifts goalposts and arguments and making up points to argue that others didn't make... Then you are welcome!

I've never been a big fan of loan forgiveness, especially without fixing the cost structure.

But. Sometimes life isn't fair. Not fixing the problem because not everyone would get the benefit is a crappy reason to continue a broken system. If we were to decide to fully fund higher education from this point forward and give ample ways for people to attend free it would seem to be a poor argument to say, "why should they get free college, I had to pay through the nose?"

The cost structure is the foundation of the student loan situation. We created this by drastically cutting state funding for colleges and universities starting in the late 80's/early 90's. From there, the cost shot up.

It is fair to ask whether forgiveness is a good idea. I am just completely not convinced by the argument that some people won't benefit so why should anyone. And I am someone whose balances combined with my wife topped out in the suburban 2 story 3 bedroom fake tudor range based on 2005 home prices.

If the point was you are compulsive manipulating liar that constantly shifts goalposts and arguments and making up points to argue that others didn't make... Then you are welcome!

And yet Nutella provides links to documentary support for his statements, which I have found to reliable sources of information which accurately support his statements each time.

When you accuse him of lying, I don’t know that you accurately state his claims that you dispute or think are self-contradictory. Nutella has actually built a foundation for me to believe his positions. It might be helpful if you post links to reliable sources of information to support your claims. At present, I can’t think of a single instance that I clicked on a link from you and was impressed by the information. I have no memory of that ever happening.

I gave you specifics. You just have to have been paying attention. He literally lied that I said I was against paid maternity leave.

He didn't literally say that. He said you would argue against it. He was making a prediction, which may or may not turn out to be correct. Your other, "specifics" are just pointing to threads.

I guess we just have different definitions of specific.

That was his first mention of me after I questioed his argument about having paid maternity leave. So he mentioned me there as someone who is trying to argue it. We then had a back and forth after that where he kept demanding I defend my point against paid leave where I had to tell him 3-4 times in a row that I wasn't against it but that he was not presenting good arguments for anyone to make a reasonable conclusion (which is what the readers expect if there is to be value extracted from these arguments vs just slinging shit). He then went on to insinuate I was lying about not being against it and said his basis here was that everyone could read my posts, yet failed to show where I said I was against it. That is lying to try to make up fake strawman arguments that were not made. Sorry you are having trouble here but seems you did not read the whole thread.

Another lie lately was when he attributed real wage growth to Biden as a positive. However I showed him that nominal wages were down and the only reason real wages were up was because of massive prior inflation that was now dropping faster than wages were dropping. So wages are lower under Biden and he used varying inflation to hide this and lie about Biden raising wages. This is how he operates all the time. Tracking down his BS would be a full time job and I dont live here like many do.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=8111489#p8111489

I just read through the whole thread again. You lost me. Nutella accuses you of using strawman arguments several times. Near as I can figure, you consider that lying. If I assume you don't really believe people are arguing for 18 years leave or 4 hour work weeks, I'm not sure how that is anything other than a strawman.

Your second paragraph is a difference of opinion on what data points define wage growth.

Not everyone that disagrees with you is lying, they just disagree with you.

What’s going on America?