There is a podcast called Geek Warning on escape collective. They review it in the first 10min of the latest episode

The Magene radar was already a pretty serious competitor. Bryton a little bit less so, but I believe their last update fixed many of the issues.

But Trek will have better distribution, so there is that side of the argument.

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Maybe after my RTL 515 dies but just got it as a warranty replacement for my 510 which Garmin warrantied even though the warranty was up. Good customer rations adds allot of value to the Garmin! They also did not have any 510’s and sent me the 515 instead.

The Bryton (with the update) is very good. I have not encountered and missed or error readings. Maybe range is better on other brands but I find it acceptable. Just bought a second one for under $100usd.

That wasn't exactly a glowing review so far!

guess i'd have to look into it. i'm already sort of committed to the garmin ecosystem, and i find that generally my varia "just works," so i'm not sure exactly why i'd switch. maybe if trek can offer this at a great price?

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

This was my take too. In my experience, the Garmin Varia just works with no drama. And it has been around for many years. I would be perfectly open to something else, but that something else would need a compelling difference, like much lower cost, to pull me away.

Do any of the competitors have the camera like the most recent version of the Varia?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Garmin 515 is still the king. But Garmin fumbled the ball with the camera version, read some reviews before just getting a 515. The Car Back may be best of the non-Garmin radars though if you dislike Garmin and want something that may be supported long term.

Ageed. They didn't have much good to say other than it was likely a more margin profit area for the dealers. Price is the same as Garmin, shape seems more boxy and they really panned the accuracy of the Trek model as it didn't pick up traffic well in it's current state. I can't imagine why one would pick the Trek over the Garmin unless it was from the dealer pushing their higher margin product.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Yeah, I was about to buy an Garmin to replace mine that had very poor battery life, and but saw an Amazon deal for like $70 for the Bryton. I also don't like that the Garmin still uses MicroUSB charging, and the Bryton USB-C. I *hate* micro-USB - personal thing. Come on Garmin, it's 2024.

It's not *quite* as good as the Garmin - slightly underperforms in picking up a chain of multiple cars. Car positions can jump around in that scenario, etc. But overall it's just fine. No regrets.

I think the biggest, if only complaint I've heard (and had myself) of the Varia is that the battery life is too short, like 3hrs runtime, maybe 3:30-3:45 if you're lucky.

A longer-lasting Varia would be a real game-changer, or heck, even one with a well designed clip-on battery attachment to run it for 6-8 hrs would be really cool.

And yes, I know you can just buy two of them and just swap one for the other if you want the long runtime that badly.

5 hours ride time with mine and still charged enough to ride the next few days. Maybe you need a firmware update?

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Kiwami Racing Team

It probably varies how much traffic passes you - my friend just got a new one and on similar routes as mine he gets the same runtime as me - he def complains about it because he's training for IM and often runs out the battery.

Nope! I'm using the Varia I bought back in '19 and I had it burning for a 5 and 1/2 hour ride yesterday. I do run it on blink (not solid).

PSA: I always run it on the road and I have it on my gravel bike just in case I end up riding a stretch of busy road. It gets muddy and dusty on the gravel bike and I'll wipe it off before using it on the road. Before yesterday's ride I gave it a really deep clean. To my surprise I noticed it was picking up cars a lot farther away than what I had gotten use to. Keep it clean for maximum range!

My Varia is getting pretty long in the tooth, so i don't know how long it lasts now. But I have gone on 8 hour rides with it in the past in blinking mode. My 520 dies long before the Varia does.

I have had good battery life with my original unit, but it eventually got a bit older and the battery was a bit sketchy, so bought the new model and no problems there.
One thing that really is interesting is that none of the typical gear reviewers like DC Rainmaker/ GP Lama etc have said a word about this Trek unit... that seems very odd. The Geek Alert podcast did not give a very positive review though.

Another anecdote from me - I did a century ride recently, and purposely did not turn on my Varia for the first 4 hours, as I figured I'd save it for the final hours when I'm more fatigued and there are fewer riders around.

Tons of Varias in the first 4 hours, seemed like well over half the riders had them and they were all chirping. I could just follow their chirps for cars on the country roads.

In the last few hours after I turned mine on, seemed like I saw very few of them on or chirping anymore. Yes, there were fewer people around, but it went from like everyone having them on to literally nobody except me - several groups I rode with in the last few hours - NOBODY had a functioning Varia except me. They were there - just 'off'.

the key for battery life with the varia is to put it on auto mode and set to turn on only when the head unit is recording an activity. that way it turns off when you stop for a coffee and varies the light depending on conditions and presence of cars

SUPER weird, right???

I'm a big believer in the Bontrager Flare RT brightness and flash pattern, and scientifically proven* that a significant amount of cars give me more room with it on. I'd much rather have a car see me than radar see a car. I'm such a big believer, I currently run the Flare RT plus a Varia 315. When I saw the first review of the Car Back I nearly bought it without reading a review...

From listening to the recent FIT file podcast (DCRainmaker and DesFit) about the life of a sports tech reviewer, I would hypothesize that they did not get media loaner units in advance. They stated that in that case, they will usually review an interesting product, but clearly cannot launch a review "at launch."

Ray is often on this site, so perhaps he will chime in.

Besides the fact that the Varia flashes when a car approaches and the CarBack doesn't lol.

Also, gplama did comment here: https://www.reddit.com/...arback_radar_i_like/

I'm all over it. They didn't supply a media unit. I had to find one in store the day after release. I've since tested it extensively.

Firstly, the media reviews missed so much information I'm pretty peeved after having spent money on one only to have to find out all the finer points myself. It's the first radar to use 77GHz, that's a big change from the standard 24GHz all other radars currently use. NO review tested the extraordinary detection distance claims. No mention of the flashing pattern not changing on a detection. No mention the post mount was shitty on aero posts. No mention of the ANT+ Radar spec limitation of 196m maximum distance reporting that would/could possibly screw with head units.

All that aside, I set out to verify their claims of 240m detection distance. They'd hung their hat on this in their promo videos, every media review was parroting the same specs. HUGE if true. I couldn't. Not with an Edge and ConnectIQ app that shows vehicle distance. Putting that aside, visually I couldn't see it pick up cars any earlier than 140-150m with a rough measurement, it was definitely not 240m. After obsessing about what I screwed up with my testing overnight, the next morning I was out testing the unit side-by-side with the Bryton Gardia R300L then the Garmin Varia RTL515. I observed NO difference in the detection times/distances in what I would consider near perfect conditions. That was all captured in full 4k... along with someone flipping me off and mouthing something at me for standing on the roadside looking like a speed trap. Nice.

Road Test:


Side-by-Side Test:


I had to put in WAY too much work in an attempt to have this device prove itself. It never did. 240m is a BIG claim. BIG.

I've since had two calls with Trek (Friday and Monday). Kudos to them for answering my queries and wanting to discuss my testing protocol/conditions. They're confident in the measurements/testing they'd done, which is great. I can't replicate their results with the unit I purchased.

I'll give it a little more time.. but not much. Stay tuned. I'm in the states for a week and have the unit with me. I might pick up another while I'm here and do more testing before putting up a review in full.

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Shane Miller - GPLama
YouTube | Web | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook | Strava

Dear Garmin, just make the 515 with a bigger battery and a USB-C charging port and I will give you even more money.

Watch Garmin come out with a 515+ next month.

Jokes aside I am actually in the market for one right now, I will likely buy the TL 515 but maybe I should actually wait to see if Garmin does in fact release a updated version soon.

The 715 has USB-C charging.

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Thanks for this! My takeaways were that detection is as good as garmin, battery life is a weak spot, but it has the attention grabbing flash pattern I like and usb c. I hate dishonest or optimistic marketing claims, but if garmin doesn’t have something better by end of May I’m ordering one of these for sure.

I use the radar without a light and the bontrager flare.rt. No camera but the best of both imo. My u it is 4yrs old I guess and still lasts 5hrs plus.

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http://www.TriScottsdale.org

I love their math example of the benefit of their extended detection range. Who rides 25kph on a road with 100kph car traffic?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

Anyone riding on an open road with a headwind and or slightly hillier terrain?

After having my second Flare RT die in wet conditions – which was a warranty replacement of my first Flare RT that also died in wet conditions – I would never touch them again. Since this can leave you in the dark and rain without a rear light, IMHO it is a major problem with this product.

That was my problem with Cycliq (camera, not radar). I bricked like 6-7 units in the rain. Warranty service was decent, but finally I just gave up on them.

klehner wrote:

I love their math example of the benefit of their extended detection range. Who rides 25kph on a road with 100kph car traffic?

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5555031#p5555031

I have a Varia RTL515 and mu buddy just got the Trek CarBack. Both of us use a Garmin 530 as a head unit. While riding yesterday, we tested the Trek vs. the Garmin and we got the radar warning at the same time; a few times he got it before me, but also a few times, I got the warning slightly ahead of him.

I would say the range is pretty much identical.

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"Suddenly the thought struck me. My floor is someone elses ceiling"-Nils Ferlin

thanks for the review. personally, if i have 140yd or thereabouts that's fine for me. if somebody actually comes out with a radar that'll alert me if the car is going to run up the rear of me, that i'd be interested in. i recognize that would probably require some granularity that doesn't exist in the tech.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That is a camera unit akin to what most automotive LKA and lane centering systems use. The nut is the camera needs to see the lane lines and an object's relative position within those lanes to know if you are at risk. Radar cannot do that - it is far too low resolution. Radar can only really "see" an approaching object in general. LiDAR could also see an object's relative position to lanes, but that might be a bit bulky for a bike...

When I get an alert, it reminds me to ride true and listen. Also, when group riding, we all drop to single-file with an alert. So, while these radar-driven behaviors do not eliminate run-up-the-rear risk, they greatly reduce it.

Do you have one of these, Dan?

I used to think the same as you - this this isn’t “good enough”. But my varia is far and away my favorite cycling purchase I’ve ever made. I don’t like riding without it

i'm naked without a varia on my road bike. i have a pair of varias and i don't know when i first got mine but probably 5 years ago? it's almost up there with my helmet as a must-have or won't-ride. i don't have the trek radar yet.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

For bikes that don't have an easy way to attached a rear radar - has anyone successfully attached to a jersey pocket for a ride?

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

You have me really curious as to how unique this bike is as there are so many options out there.

I have one of these for my road bike:
https://neat-components.com/collections/frontpage

One of these for my triathlon bike that has a threaded insert in the seat post:
https://k-edge.com/...avity-top-cap-mount/

A lot of people I ride with use this one on a wide range of bikes:
https://komcycling.com/...s/garmin-varia-mount

I've seen this one once out in the wild but it doesn't work well with saddle bags or rear hydration systems so it's probably not a good fit for you either:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CBL9J67N

  






I can maybe envision hearing some way-too-high-revving engine approaching rapidly from behind and then make the decision to immediately ditch off the road. But in 40 years of cycling I've never ditched. Except once due to a speeding car coming at me head-on on a 1-lane road. Of course many times I've heard speeding cars coming rapidly from behind. But I usually just hope they're just some jackass speeding and not someone aiming for me. So far I'm batting 1000 in that hope. The day I have to start ditching offroad more than about once per decade is the day I go full MTB/gravel.

Radar is absolutely a great tool. I use it all the time. Just don't think it does anything to reduce the naked risk of being run up from behind. There is absolutely no way to know if the car approaching from behind is going to suddenly veer and take you out or not. It's just pure hope.

Autonomous car tech won't help much, I don't think. Car actuation system can respond very quickly, brake and steer in sub-millisecond response to sensor data. We, as cyclists can't respond much at all.

Well I take that back. Autonomous car tech will help a *ton* just in different ways. Cheap "5G" transponders built into a head unit or watch will one day transmit to all nearby cars that you, a cyclist/runner, are in the vicinity, with location as accurate as today's geolocation systems. And the cars will then prepare to avoid you before you even show up in the sensor data. And the sensors will just confirm what the car already knows.

I think long-term, it makes far more sense to put the expensive sensors on cars. And the cheap transponders on our bodies or bikes.

I could not ride outside without it now...

I did a long ride with a friend Saturday, and my Garmin was dead. So, I had no radar. Fortunately he did. I felt a little exposed not knowing whether a car was approaching except by trying to discern from his Garmin's beeping. I found I like knowing what is going on behind me without having to look.

Ha, yeah now that I mostly cycle on remote mountain roads where radar makes the most sense, I feel utterly naked without it.

It's brilliant descending down the Sierra mountains when the wind noise at 50MPH is so loud you can't hear cars. I could take the lane and descend like a madman, but still find places to let the rare cars pass with ease due to radar. At 50MPH actually turning to look back can be terrifying on twisty roads.

thanks for those links to alternative mounts.
i'm pretty new to the varia verse (this year) - but I do like it and i REALLY want my wife to have one.
she rides a smaller frame (and not a lot of extra seat post sticking out/ and is loathe to get a smaller seat bag (I'm trying!)), so...
a mount that would extend from the back of the saddle makes sense to me.
that amazon one on your link looks to extend back from the saddle a bit (leaving some room for that seat bag).

I suspect, just like me (and a lot of others), once she gets in tune with what the varia is telling her - it's hard not to see it's usefulness.

One more for you :)
https://komcycling.com/products/saddle-bag

https://buplabs.com/...fizik-gen-mount-base

If you have a fizik saddle, this seems like the nicest option.

I've got a variation of the Amazon one - it's pretty hard to get a saddle bag under it so I've mostly shifted to keeping a wrap in my jersey pocket instead. I tried extending it with an aluminum GoPro extension, but ended up snapping it due to the added stress from it bobbing.

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/874032 Saddle mount from Garmin.

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Kiwami Racing Team

thanks for all the links to saddle mounts. wisdom of the crowd is helpful.
i ordered a seat rails mount to try - we'll see.
my wife and I both have selle smp saddles (finding a go to saddle is a WHOLE other conversation!).
selle smp have their selle brand plate attached to the back of the saddle with 4 bolts on each side.

i think the name plate is somewhat functional as it also serves to fix the rails in place against the body of the saddle.

because there are fixes for trek/specialized/fizik/others? saddles, i wonder if there isn't one for selle?
or... how hard would be to 3D print the top piece selle uses WITH a garmin mount?

again, many thanks for the wisdom, links, and ideas - sincerely, rick

Since we had this conversation I decided to charge up my old 510 and see how long it lasts. No centuries in the past week, but it has over 8 hours of ride time and is still going strong. Indicated around 50% battery left. I'll let you all know when it finally dies.

To be fair, intermittent use probably doesn't drain the battery as bad as one continuous ride. At the same time, the battery in my unit is quite old.

I recently gave my Varia RTL515 away in classifieds because it was down to about two hours. No complaints - it had a good life, and heavy use.

For those concerned with battery life, the Bryton 300L has remarkable specs. 8 hours minimum (high solid rear light), 17 hours with "daylight flashing" mode, and a full 24 hours radar-only.

I haven't validated those specs yet (but will with some ultra-distance stuff coming) - but in the 4-5 hour rides I've been doing, I have not seen the battery indicator drop from its green position (I mostly use daylight flash).

I think I've already made this point in this thread, but the actual radar performance is "good enough" for me (with new firmware). With single cars on long country roads I haven't noticed any subjective difference from the RTL515. It picks cars up at good range, and they're consistent through when they pass me. With complex situations with multiple cars, it's still not quite as good. The cars can jump around a bit on the display. But I have yet to have a situation where I did my final look-over-the-shoulder before moving across a road/lane and been surprised by a car that wasn't picked up at all. And that's the most important thing to me (false negatives). There are some false positives, usually other cyclists behind me, sometimes (but rarely) parked cars. But not terrible in that regard.

I did a mod for a customer to mount a varia on one of these saddles, and it was super easy. Just drilled a couple of holes in the end plate and screwed a Garmin disc on to the plate, with a couple of standoffs to give some clearance to rotate the varia/fit a bag underneath.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Does the Bryton still use the same Garmin quarter turn mount?

No, it's a proprietary quarter turn mount.... annoyingly since while it works just fine, I can't identify a particular advantage over the Garmin "standard."

On the plus side, the provided bike-side bit is good, and better than Garmin's IMO.

This reminds me of my current Varia challenge... Good mount for a "D" shaped seat post.

My old bike had a round seat post, and the OG round clamp was wonderful. I have yet to find a mount that works well and looks good on a "D" shaped seat post. I am currently using the KOM mount, but it is not that good. https://komcycling.com/...s/garmin-varia-mount

What bike/post do you have?

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Ventum NS1. It is flat across the back, about 25mm wide. Then the front is a D-shaped curve.

Check with @neat_components. They make some really clean mounts, and can probably do a custom mount for you if they don't have a Ventum specific mount already.

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Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Thanks. No current products listed, but Contact Us sent.

What about on your saddle? Does your saddle have mounting holes for a proprietary light mount? I use a Bontrager saddle and found a Varia adapter that uses the holes in the saddle. There are also rail clamp adapters if you are not using them for rear hydration.

I have not seen any Varia saddle mounts that can work around a saddle bag. I have a Fizik Vento Argo saddle with a Silca Mattone bag. The bag nestles into the rails and kind of covers the whole back of the saddle.

Picky, but why is the firmware/display better for the Varia when using a Wahoo than using Garmin's own head units? On an Edge, the car indication is a dot and the animation of the dot and location on the screen just doesn't seem to be as optimal as the car symbols and method Wahoo uses. That just boggles my mind that a competitor uses your radar better on the HU than you can.