I am not aware of any passage like that.

Paul does say in Galatians 1:6-9:

The key here is that you have to know what the gospel is in the first place so that you will know when a counterfeit is being preached.

But surely you don't think the faith practices of the Egyptians were legit or the Hindus, Buddhists? I'm not sure of the duration of those but it's got to be at least in the ballpark to the judeo-christian tradition. There are probably numerous other ones that didn't become widespread but nonetheless were around for a long time.

Replying to myself but asking generally, on this point, Joseph Smith is a great example. I would imagine mainstream Christians think Joseph Smith was a charlatan, or crazy, or both, but is there a scriptural case against people making the claims that Smith did, explicitly warning that prophets who claim to experience and know what he claimed to experience and know will be false prophets?

Where could Senator Romney, for example, look in his Bible and be confronted with the warning to reject what Joseph Smith was selling? Certainly he fits the description of the outlier slowguy was describing in his response to me, and yet 17,000,000+ otherwise Christian believers joined his cult.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Or Martin Luther.

It is the consistency more so than the length of the practice during that period of time. Certain groups are saying that parts of the NT have been wrongly interpreted the entire time despite the clear practice of the Church for those 2,000 years.

A major change, like the nullification of the OT dietary laws, was accompanied by clear and direct teaching. We don't have any record of that happening in regard to the issue that was raised.

I'm not sure what exactly you're asking here; but, I'll try.

Big picture: Senator Romney should read the Bible and see that his religion is not supported by the Bible (see my #3, below).

1) There are continual warnings against false prophets (which I has been addressed, and I think you now have a good understanding of).
2) There are continual warnings against the tendency of us (all of us) to hear what we want to hear ("having itching ears", v.3); so, be wary. (2 Tim. 4:1-4, below). If something seems really attractive, then it's probably wrong. Being a Christian is hard and counter to our desires as humans. My own failures as a follower are a good example. They are many and my good friends continually point them out to me.

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

3) The perspicuity of Scripture. This is one of the characteristics of Scripture. Notice: Sphere, even you--who I assume are not so familiar with the Bible--can tell that Joseph Smith was not teaching consistent with the Bible. I'm not an expert on Mormonism, but I'm pretty sure that Mormons don't have a Biblical understanding of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is pretty clear in Scripture, and has been addressed in multiple church creeds (e.g., Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed, etc.).
4) All major changes from the current understanding of Scripture were accompanied by miracles. Moses and the giving of the law; Jesus (and his apostles) changing from the OT to NT. The prophets. Miracles serve as authentication for the teaching. For example, Moses (at the burning bush) asks God why Pharoah would believe him. God instructs Moses to use the miracles (Ex. 4:1-9). For example, in Jn 3, Nicodemus (a Pharisee) comes to Jesus to ask him question, while saying, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him." (v.2). There are gobs of examples. So, if Joseph Smith is going to teach something that is different from the understanding clearly represented in Scripture, then either: it's wrong; or, b) should be accompanied by miracles ("signs and wonders").

Ah well, but that’s the problem with religion and why it causes so much conflict. Those of religion A think that their gospel/scripture/manuscripts are the accepted truth, while those of religions B, C, D and E believe that all the others are counterfeit, and, as seen by the Christians here, will adamantly argue the same. The most likely answer is that they’re all counterfeit human constructs. If God really existed, we would see evidence of it/him/her. Well, let me rephrase that: because there is no actual evidence of God, ALL religions have to create a clever narrative for why we can never see, hear or touch god. Collectively, this points more towards god being a human construct.

I don't know, when he met another woman he really wanted to screw, and then convinced his wife and the rest of the faithful that an angel had come to him and revealed that God was down with polygamy seems like a miracle of sorts to me :)

Got it.

Sphere, to get an understanding of this, do me a favor ... read Mk. 10: 32-36. Feel the weight of how hard it was for Jesus's own disciples to "get it". Being a follower of Christ is hard to get because it goes against our sinful desires. In Mk. 10, when you get to v. 33, read it two times, slowly. Concentrate on what Jesus is telling the disciples. Then, read v. 34 VERY slowly three times, and feel the weight of each thing that Jesus is telling will happen to him. It's going to be brutal. Then, go to vv. 35-36 and see how the disciples completely miss the weight of what will happen to Jesus and they are just focused on themselves. It's sadly quite comical in the telling. But, this is all of us. This is what we miss about what it means to be a Christian. We (me included) often focus on what we want to hear and miss the stuff that we don't want to hear. Jesus compared TriFloyd to sheep because TriFloyd is really and truly like sheep.

In Luke 22:31-34, when Peter (God love him) tried to show his boldness to Jesus, Jesus told him that "Satan demanded do have you and sift you like wheat" (v.31). For people in those days, sifting wheat was very simple, you just threw the wheat up and the slightest zephyr would separate the wheat from the chaff. That's how easy we are to Satan who "prowls around like roaring lion" (1 Pet. 5:8). ... But for Jesus praying for us. Thanks be to God.

Right, that's what I'm talking about. The authenticating miracles were not merely personal experiences (e.g., "an angel had come to him and revealed ..."). In the time of Moses, the signs and wonders were for everyone to see. In the time of Jesus, at the very outset of his ministry, he was doing miracles for the entire public to see. When Peter gave his sermon in Acts 2, he appealed to those public "signs and wonders" (v.22, below).

Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know ..."

Re-read Nicodemus's words to Jesus. They were not: "You claim that God privately revealed some truth to just you ...". Instead, they were [paraphrasing]: "We Pharisees can't dispute your teaching because it is publicly authenticated by God."

the majority of american evangelicalism is one big cult right now. it checks all the boxes.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

That we have itching ears that we hear what we want to hear (2 Tim: 4:3) and that following Christ means that we must submit ourselves against our carnal desires and to someone higher. Consider the Garden of Eden (Gen. 3), Satan tempted Adam/Eve with: a) appealing to their immediate carnal desires ("it was good for food and a delight to the eyes", v.6) and b) their desire to not have authority over them ("you will be like God", v.5)


Ugh, my poor typing. Thanks. I'll edit it.

Interesting, I would have thought the materialism of the modern world would have been a bigger one than the sexual prohibitions.

But then again, I have no idea how much churches push the former.

Some quick googling I found a survey of people who left Christianity and the most common reason listed for leaving was LGBQ+, so maybe you're onto something.

This is painting with a broad brush. Yet, in some real sense, American evangelicalism is suffering from losing its way by--ironically--getting what it wants. It is experiencing a desire for easy life and power, and getting it. To be a follower of Christ necessarily means losing those things. Again, the same temptations that Satan tempted Adam and Eve with.

At this point in the discussion, I'm not attempting to make a distinction on which is worse: a) materialism; or b) sexual prohibitions. That was not my point. Each would fall under the things that we're tempted by. Each satisfy our personal desires ("pleasing to the eyes" aspect) and go against God's word (our revolt against God's authority and teaching).

So I'd take it you think the prosperity preachers are way off the mark?

As are churches that are liberal towards LGBQ+?

about that broad brush: about 80 percent of white evangelicals support donald trump. read galatians 1:6 thru 9. this is the american evangelical church.

let us stipulate for a moment that christianity is true. the bulk of evangelical christianity forfeits its place in the world to come in order to establish its kingdom here. what good does it do you to gain the whole world, only to lose your soul? evangelicals - the majority, if you just ask them - would prefer have their kingdom now. it's a kingdom they intend to rule by hate and division. their leader, donald trump, has already clearly stated that his rule will be marked by retribution and revenge.

if you believe we're in the last days and you believe the antichrist will arrive in the last days, who is more tailor made than trump? he and all his followers proudly wear maga on their foreheads. anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear knows it. persecuting others is so much more satisfying than being persecuted yourself.

but this should not be a mystery to you. the gate is broad that leads to destruction. true christians enter by the narrow gate and few there are who find it. if christianity is true evangelicals aren't just going to get a talking to when they get to heaven. they live under the "curse of god" according to paul the apostle.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I've read it multiple times in two versions, to be sure I understood what was being said.

It reads like a couple of dipshits not hearing what's being said to them by someone they presumably love. Frankly, it reads like something that wouldn't have actually happened in that situation (unless they were established previously in the text to be self-centered assholes) but offered as an allegory of how tone-deaf humans can be to God's word. Which was the correct takeaway, it would seem.

Edit to add: I'm not sure how that relates to the question you were directly responding to though, about Joseph Smith.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

When you go to these churches and talk to congregants, you get an idea of what is important to them. It's not a high view of God's word and His authority. Instead, they focus on what is "pleasing to the eye and good for food."

When David was king in Israel, when he had conquered many lands, he sent his army (i.e., at that point, he was not going out with his army) to fight for Israel. See how temptation falls on David. Read the nuance of these verses ("in the spring of the year", "the time when kings go out to battle, David sent [other people]", "David remained", "arose from his couch", etc. ... "It happened, late in the afternoon"). At his moment of getting what he wanted (Yes, doing God's work), he was super susceptible to temptation. This is the moment that Satan tempts King David and TriFloyd and the Church, and sifts them like wheat.

2 Sam. 11: 1-2
In the spring of the year, the time when kings go out to battle, David sent Joab, and his servants with him, and all Israel. And they ravaged the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained at Jerusalem. It happened, late one afternoon, when David arose from his couch and was walking on the roof of the king's house, that he saw from the roof a woman bathing; and the woman was very beautiful.

That survey I referenced above asking about why people have left Christianity, which I think was of former evangelicals, support of Trump was the 3rd most common reason.

personally, i think you do christianity a disservice to not call this out for what it is. the pharisees were the "evangelical christians" of jesus' time. you've read matthew 23. read it again. "damnation" is the word used by jesus to describe their state. this is the posture of the righteous man today against evangelical christianity. anything less is weak and timid if not outright cowardly.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You’re so close….

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

if christianity is true then here is what we know: a lot of people will have their brackets busted when they see who advanced to heaven and who lost in the first round. jesus specifically championed, for example, prostitutes. and those in prison. (and no, don't "manage" that by stating that jesus was only talking about religious prisoners.) evangelicals know this. they preach this. but they only believe this in the abstract. they do not, themselves, champion society's discards. meanwhile, jesus said to the thief on a cross alongside him, "today you will be with me in paradise." i don't see any mention of that thief ever having, you know, gone through the ritual. accepting jesus as lord and savior. being born again. confessing sins. and so on.

however, jesus specifically stated that the religious order of the day was damned. not just off-base. not just flawed. damned. so, i'm not the judge, but i would not find it surprising that the pure of heart who left christianity because of what it has become end up at the right hand of god while those who remain in the churches they left end up in the "lake of fire." assuming it's all true, of course.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman