Hang on, let me run this through the Tylermatic5000 (TM) moron translator...

yes there is a war ongoing. And our ally Israel is fighting it. They didn't ask for it. It was thrust upon them by Hamas animals on Oct 7.

And they got 98% of the way through dealing with it. And then your hero Joe Biden whined for more support from Congress, got it approved, and then decided that pandering to a few Hamas lovers who vote in MI was politically more important than supplying them with "smart" weapons they have used to fight the war while limiting civilian casualites which have been supplied for the other 98% Civilian casualties caused by the fact that Hamas animals use their civilians as human shields and use weak kneed posiitons by Biden to continue to delay an agreement and return hostages.

Once Hamas heard Biden had gone soft to appease their fans in MI they decided to come out of their holes and hidings behind their civilian shields and lob some more rockets at Israel. Something you want to pretend is just business as usual and not at all related to the buffoonery you support.

I get it. there's nothing I can say to convince you otherwise. Your decisions are rooted in hatred of Trump and you are prepared to bend reality to whatever you have to to justify your hate based decisions.

Hollywood mega-donor slams Biden decision to halt Israel arms shipment - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

In his email, Saban wrote that Biden’s decision to stop sending munitions to Israel “sends a terrible message to our allies in the region” and shows that the U.S. “can flip from doing the right [thing] to bending to political pressure.”


when you are prepared to have a conversation, a serious one, that doesn't include your inability to get past your hate of Trump let me know.

I'm guessing there are few things that can get you fully erect like the thought of dead Palestinian civilians.

Biden is not the first to withhold weapons. Our boy Ronnie did it too.

Israel remained as ally. They will remain an ally after the dust settles here as well. Simply trying to have input on how the dust settles.

Enough weapons are available in Israel ammo dumps to do Rafah as they are currently planning. Come next war you should have no doubt they will be stocked again.

My defense of this admin is a walk in the park no brainer. Almost as natural as my hate for your guy. As for history and hate, well Trump in 2020 had his emergency in Covid. Biden has his Israel Bibi emergency.

So has your boy backed off his 2 state solution or not?

My hate of Trump in no way detracts from a serious debate on the subject. At least from my perspective. If you are offended I can't help you. I have asked where he stands but you have ignored.

And yet even with a sugar daddy citizen claiming foul and threatening non support, the President still holds the line. No sale given to donor. My hate of Trump? Is he up for sale? If so then hate holds.

Can you explain your 98% comment?
(I am asking genuinely, not taking the p$&s or taking sides etc).
I am based in Australia and have not kept up with events over the last few weeks as work has been crazy busy.
I am not certain if you mean to say that the war is 98% complete? Only 2% left to defeat or clear out?
Sorry I am not quite sure what you are getting at, my gut reaction to the 98% comment was that it could be a touch over stated. The natural history of most conflicts would tend to show that there is a lot of investment needed after victory has been declared/mission complete. I think it would be naive to think there won’t be a lot more requests for aid and support and many many billions needed/required to stabilize the region.

I guess meaning that the USA will be asked for a lot lot more financial and arms support for a long time coming.

100%. Hamas is not only the militant/terrorist force, but the government. The Israeli intent is to demolish the government (that government they funded and propped up for years, but that's another discussion). But Israel has also stated that Israel will play no role in trying to govern Gaza after the fact. Just install more fencing and more gun positions, presumably.

That leaves a giant vacuum. And there are many historical examples - some recent - that when you have hundreds of thousands of young men with no hope and no government that Bad Things result. You could end up with things worse than Hamas, just like ISIS was, at times, worse than Al Qaeda. And though the active militants of Hamas can theoretically be eliminated, Hamas the idea will be far more difficult to eradicate.

It's going to take great care, I think, to develop a credible government in Gaza/Palestine. The U.S. installing some white guy like Paul Bremer, I don't think will work great. Whenever coalitions of Western governments try to carve up and install Western-style governments in Eastern/Middle East/African/SA countries more often than not they make a complete hash of it.

But neither do I think Palestine/Gaza is, right now, in a good place to develop an "organic" government from the ashes of what's left.

I have no great ideas on what might work.

Whining for Israel support? I'm sorry, so who was holding it up? Some of that support involves humanitarian aid in the form of a causeway pier. I'm sorry you see it primarily as pandering to some would be voters. I view that as ancillary. The high road here and the primary reason is helping innocents to survive while simultaneously supporting our ally.

Joe is not, nor ever was, my hero. He is our President. Check my posting here, you have no fight with me about this war. I have been in support of the IDF's war plan. Their deconflicting support of humanitarian work to move innocents away from harm and then getting them aid I find to be seriously deficient. That deficiency is what is noted as the reason for withholding 3000 or so rounds of offensive weapons. It is reported that this withholding action in no way affects their plans to level Raffah with the already on hand inventory of like smart bombs

This rocket attack timing and Biden going soft correlation. Meh! call me when it snows balls into a major movement. Or call me when the IDF makes a similar claim against us.

Again I see no response to how Trump would have could have done it better or different. Why so?

As you have not allowed Trump to be factored in comparison, please explain how my feelings toward him then come into play. When you bring Trump into the arena of buffoon world leaders looking foolish, then you will truly see how my hatred shows to a level where I might blow a fuse and bend reality is support of my guy. I am not holding my breath.

Reagan did it twice, both times holding back planes and munitions. He also approved the vote to condemn Israel at the United Nations Security Council. H.W. Bush postponed $10 billion in loan guarantees. To some people that makes them antisemitic.

Biden's disagreement is with Bibi, not Israel. He is not alone, there has been plenty of legitimate criticism of Bibis handling of the war.

A general problem with a subset of the Israeli government (population) is that if you disagree with them you are automatically considered antisemitic and pro Hamas. A sunset are as extreme in their belief as any other bunch of loons; Aryan separatists, islamic state, Hamas etc

They brook zero compromise or recognition that they are in anyway responsible

But but Trump

But but Reagan.


Typical bullshit from you and Nutella.

Comparative analysis has always allowed mankind to move forward. Lessons are learned, mistakes are not repeated, corrective features are applied and we make progress, we improve and build better. I have yet to argue a But Trump example as you have given me nothing to argue for or against in that matter. How did Reagan's actions after Israel invaded Lebanon work out? Do you think it wrong to look to the past as a guide?

In the matter of world affairs and our national security with Trump running for election to be that guy that makes the calls on tariffs, troops, treaty diplomacy or kinetic aggression and prioritizing resources, don't you think it a smart move to compare the two?

News flash, until November, the " but but your guy and the but but my guy" back and forth is a requisite. Because my guy is the current president he is making the calls. The results, right or wrong, are inescapable. He may yet make a bad call sorta like your boy asking about shining flashlights in orifices to cure the Covid when he was making the calls.

I'm curious how you think Israel is responsible for anything. It's been FAFO with the Arabs since 1948. Arabs attack Israel defends themselves. Antisemitics blame Israel for having the audacity to a) continuing to exist b) taking measures to preserve their existence.

Why don't you blame the Arab nations that attack Israel? Why don't you blame the Palestinian leadership that oppress and steal from their own people? Why do you never mention Black September effendi?

You don't think israelis continuing to occupy more land are responsible for their own actions? You can't even bring yourself to recognise that a subset are racists?

I think you'd find it impossible to find me stating anywhere Israel had no right to exist nor defend itself. I'm just not sure 25k women and children could be counted as defending.

Why can't you bring your self to state that a subset do want Palestinians wiped from the land they currently occupy. I mean, they've said it themselves, what holds you back from acknowledging it? Do they not mean what they say? Are they not racists and supporters of terror organisations? When an Israeli expresses hatred for a group and support a nationalist terror organisation they're neither racists nor terrorism supporters in your view? Only Palestinians are? Help us out

Acknowledging a point would be, in windy's mind, conceding ground in his quest for rhetorical "points."

He is not here to seriously discuss Israel.

Completely incapable. Video showing abuse or killing of kids would be batted away with no recognition of culpability. Where as I think most of the other posters bar the other loons have recognised how we have arrived here, the culpability and evil of hamas and that Israem may not be a good faith actor. Not windy though who still thinks we are moments away from the 6 day war redux, as opposed to even acknowledging Arab states have evolved and have peace treaties with israel

Windy is here to throw rocks and run away, which is oddly appropriate given the topic.

Reasonable people know that questioning Bibi's handling of the war does not mean you support Hamas. Joe is hardly the only person questioning Bibi, only about 15% of Israelis want him to remain PM after the war is over.....they must be antisemitic.

now that Biden is pandering to the Hamas loving wing of his party Nutella of course is falling right in line with the play book.

His schtick used to be that it was just the fringe like Talib pushing the Hamas loving wing of the Dem party

Now he's all in pretending it's reasonable that we are all of a sudden questioning Bibi after 6 months of not questioning Bibi.

Now he's pretending that the things Reagan and Ike etc did are some how comparable to pulling funding when Israel is at the 5 yard line of ending a war we have helped fund for 6 months after the Hamas animals invaded Israel and killed Jews with no provocation on a (day) scale not seen since Hitler.

All of a sudden he wants to pretend that Biden who 4 years ago said he would never withhold aid from our greatest ally in the region has somehow done anything other than make a purely political decision to pander to the pockets of Hamas lovers in MN and MI who are prepared to turn their back on him.

In other words, it's business as usual here in the LR. Throw bullshit while pretending he knows what he's talking about and run away.

I notice you studiously avoided actually answering any question I posed. Wonder why?

I'll asnwer that question as an ice breaker.

The land commonly referred to as occupied on the West Bank et al was taken in defensive wars and Israel maintains a military presence to protect itself.

Was Israel starting a war to do a land grab or did they take it for defensive purposes in effectively a counterattack? The answer is obviously the former.

Now the questions I posed previously, I look forward to you answering.

Or you just don't like where the conversation logically leads?

Is the point I'm not conceding is there are Jews that want Palestinians out of Gaze completely? I'll concede there is a small subset that has that belief.

Eyeroll emoji.

You think Israel is acting in bad faith? That they somehow manufactured a couple of thousand dead to give them an excuse to attack Hamas?

All else being equal I'm going to come down on the side of Israel is more likely to be acting in good faith than Hamas, but that's just me.

This is such a lazy tactic you adopt constantly. You form a false statement which you try to offer as a conclusion of someone else’s comment. Argue your views on their own merits; trying to twist someone’s words into a statement you’re more capable of arguing is weak.

That's nonsense. Pretty certain at every opportunity I have pointed out who was responsible but to satisfy you;

Why don't you blame the Arab nations that attack Israel? I have but it's been some time since Egypt, Jordan, UAE or KSA were supportive of such attacks, you may wish to join the rest of us and stop living in the 60's

Why don't you blame the Palestinian leadership that oppress and steal from their own people? I have repeatedly stated that Hamas were bad for Palestine and have no future place in running the country. Though, let's be honest - which I think we collectively know is beyond you - no one did more to keep the Palestinian leadership in place than Israel.

Why do you never mention Black September effendi? Again, the world has moved on, you'd still be bringing back the Easter uprising but - and I am pretty sure you have zero experience of the region - you have literally zero insight in to the states. The world has changed, as soon a netanyahu and his racist clown government is sent packing they'll have recognition with KSA.

You can keep living in the past, but you're dishonest and it would be far easier to just state there no number of dead palestinian women and children that would give you pause for thought, that whilst they might be convicted racists you don't think they are (you've no problem with other judgements you think are wrong, nail your colours to the last), and that the continued expansion of the west bank is not only reasonable but should continue until there are no Palestinians remaining. Come on, you can say it.