LOL. 😂. Gold!

I was at the Cozumel cancelled swim start yesterday, did the race, and the ocean was not for swimming for everyone. I live by the ocean, I surf in overhead+ waves year round and this was to be my 16th Ironman race. I completely understand and respect the RDs decision to cancel the swim.

Today was bliss and some local fishermen took us snorkling on the Cielo reef in Cozumel. They told us that the current has been bad and opposite the swim direction for days now, and some swimmers would not even have made the first buoy in these conditions.

This 'macho-man-old-school' attitude is so out of tune (not addressed to you, Andrew). Times are changing, athlete attitude and preparation is changing, security is changing.
And that is just fine.

Mexican Mahalo from Cozumel. T

I am sorry but I think you are completely wrong. I was also there yesterday. If you are not able to swim in an open water ocean event with the conditions we had yesterday, then triathlon is not for you. Well, maybe indoors triathlons. But if a wind of no more of 10 knots and some choppy waters put your life at risk, you should reconsider what type of triathlon athlete are you. Yesterday before the AAGG start, there already some guys enjoying the ocean with SUP. Canceling the swim was completely nonsense. But if Ironman is for people (not athletes) who don’t train and don’t want to get tired but to brag about a finisher medal, then have it all.
Remember, the original motivation that created the IRONMAN, was about what was HARDER and made you a better ATHLETE: open water swim, ride your bike, or running a marathon. That idea is light years away from what we saw yesterday in Cozumel.
Take care, there is danger out there.

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between you and lastlap, i think i was set a bit straight just now. as in, can't deny whats what at the moment, in terms of athlete preparedness, current state of the sport. thank you for that. thank you to all really.

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http://www.PatGriskusTri.com USAT Certified Race Director
2024 Races: USAT State of CT Age Group Championship/State of CT HS Champs/ CT Club Championship - Sat June 15th (Oly/Du/Sprint) Hopkins Vineyard Tri at Lake Waramaug Saturday July 13th http://www.HopkinsVineyardTri.com

I am sorry but I think you are completely wrong. I was also there yesterday. If you are not able to swim in an open water ocean event with the conditions we had yesterday, then triathlon is not for you. Well, maybe indoors triathlons. But if a wind of no more of 10 knots and some choppy waters put your life at risk, you should reconsider what type of triathlon athlete are you.

And you are not alone in your observance, this from the swim thread on the race;

"I am not exactly sure why the swim was cancelled, it's an ocean, there was light waves. I did Kona 2022, and if yesterday is the new standard for unsafe swimming conditions then the Kona swim will always be cancelled".


I would like to see some video of the conditions pre race, usually someone has that footage?? But as I said, just glad I was doing the sport when things like this were not an option, especially in mild OW conditions...And from yours and other on the site observations, sounds like it may have been something "other" than conditions that cancelled this swim...

The only thing I'll push back on is "And that is just fine"....And I'm not saying that as an guy who walked 5mi in the snow both ways; I'm saying that- the sport that we love so much may eventually not be that sport. When you have to resort to the worst conditioned athletes as the barometer, I don't necessarily think your sport is "fine" in that aspect.

Again I understand why the decisions to cut swims out are done, I understand the demands that RD's face and the safety protocols that they are held to that races 30 years ago had no where close to the same standard. But I don't know that we'll be fine as a sport of swimming, biking and running as this trend continues to have cancelled swims.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree with you on that, Doughtie. I did not say that I praise this trend - but as an athlete, I accept that it is there. What else can you do?
The RD is responsible to:
- 2000 athletes and their families
- The Ironman brand and their (P.E. powered) quest to grow
- To the local triathlon association - in this case, Mexico
- The overall understand of Ironman racing and communities who wants to engage in this. Trust me, the fishermen I met today was very firm in their "swimming is not safe" opinion here.

Evolve or die... Ironman knows this very well.

T

I think the biggest thing "you" can do is prepare yourself for the demands of competition. I think we as a sport have gotten away from that, and obviously we'll never improve that. Again it's only going to get worse, there's no chance athletes will be better prepared for the swim with the continued swim cancellations.

And again I get it, if your a RD of 2000 people, your doing major CYA in the cuiture that we now live in. That goes from the local permiting agencies who require tons of safety protocols, to the RD who's neck is also on the line with decision making.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I've raced at Cozumel twice and one year the current was pretty bad going against us. It felt like i was stuck in this one spot for 5 minutes. Not sure how you could capture a video of super strong current.

It sucks that the swim was cancelled.

So funny enough about 10-12 years ago there was video of the Cozumel swim.

Funny you mention you felt like you didn’t move for 5 mins. In that swim they had an older gentleman that literally didn’t move for nearly 30 mins. How do we know? It was a fixed camera with a dock in view and he basically never moved. Safety crew asked if he was ok and apparently he had no idea he wasn’t advancing. He just assumed he was swimming slow.

Can’t remember if he actually made the whole swim or got pulled. But it was nuts. He literally wasn’t moving for lots of time,

I saw that video either on YT or on an Cozumel thread back in the day. The search function on here never seems to find what you’re looking for (almost 99% user error issue), if I can find the video I’ll link it.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I hope it doesn't turn out to be me - LOL

Where i was "stuck" was actually going around some coral. I think i probably could have just stood up and walked around the corner and started swimming again.

The thing about the Cozumel swim is that you are never that far from shore, so I am surprised that it got cancelled.

This thread maybe??

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ater_Video_P3685172/

I recorded a video the day before, Saturday 18th, in the T1 area. As even Sebi recognized, the ocean conditions were worst on Saturday than on race morning… https://www.instagram.com/...hid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

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Upload to Youtube. Embed here

I just added a link… is it ok as that?

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Tomas has shared some of his numbers through his IG account. And it's pretty interesting.

He's TP says he rode at 4.05 W/Kg, and his PTO profile says he weighs 61Kg, so that's around 247W for a 4:16:57

Sebi also shared his numbers on his Strava. He rode at 252W (Avg) for a 4:02:27.

Now granted Sebi's NP watts are going to be a bit higher, but in a course like Cozumel the VI isn't going to be super high.

That's 14 minute difference with pretty similar power.

So what is it: power meter reading too high? or CdA is pretty bad?

Fishermen sure know about the ocean, but most know zilch about swimming in it. Granted, a fair number of them don't even know how to swim. No wonder they think the swim is not safe!

Don't you mean 347 watts? 247 is age grouper?

LOL no, not for a tiny 61 kg age grouper. The top bikers among MPROs will average around 300 watts for an ironman and they sure as hell don’t weigh 61 kilos.

What happened here is probably that Sebi was sucking legal wheel and/or was better streamlined. He’s a guy who will scrape the paint off his bike for 70.3 worlds at Nice because of the hills. That’s his attention to detail, plus two decades of experience. Tomas is a relative newbie and his setup is a work in progress AFAIK.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

All the splits to 100 miles show Keinle ahead of Chevalier (I appreciate that only gives us 5 snapshots as they crossed the mats) but points up the pair's dynamic (Keinle not following).
Edit: This read out is screwed by the "TT start" with Keinle starting 5 seconds after Chevalier (who was #1). Looking at the time of day in the tracker, Keinle (as @Mulen say below) was behind at every mat, by one second (about 44 feet or 13m).

This was Rodriguez's first IM. Half the pros racing this year are "relative newbies", relative to Keinle! Isn't everyone's "setup a work in progress"? Rodriguez has had three years of 70.3 pro racing.

Sebi even said on his IG that Leon was in front all day. I am sure it was perfectly legal.

There were obviously massive drafting all over in the AG ranks, even with (or due to) the rolling bike start.

Surprised how many people I saw on 15K+ bikes and custom/3D printed cockpits, sitting up, not being in their aero bars. That is not how a TT bike works.

My own first loop was 39.9 kmh at 215w NP so indeed it is a fast route.

I had a fun pleasure of finishing my 2nd lap, going through Cozumel town, as Chevalier was hitting T2. People must have thought I was second, and I have never ever been cheered for, so much for in my life. 7 mins of fame 😂😂

Que?

Special mention to the guy wearing a white trisuit on his Pinarello Bolide, who sat peacefully right behind me for a good thirty minutes before I told him to get lost. I really don't understand those people. Just like the ones who were cheering when the swim cancelation was announced. Why do they even sign up for an ironman?

On the swim being canceled, it was the right decision. Until athletes have to provide actual proof/certificate they can swim in non-dead-quiet open water, similar decisions will have to be made. Most athletes would have been ok, but we can't ignore the bottom 5% who would be at risk. Even more after what happened very recently in Ireland and also other places.

I'm of the opinion long distance triathlon is not a sport that should "grow" if it wants to retain what makes it so special. Just like participants to a marathon should not be allowed to finish in 10 hours. But if we do go down that path, let's protect the participants and make races safe for everyone.

Hilarious 😂 can we kindly ask people a proof of weight, before letting them buy all-white trisuits!!!