I ride 2X in almost everything (only fat bike is 1x) so gravel, tri, road…. I follow Dan’s advice with a chain catcher on my TT bikes which are mechanical SRAM. No issue with dropped chains at all. My gravel rig is Ultegra with a SRAM/quarq crank that is 2X and without a chain catcher I have yet to drop a chain on that rig. That is with plenty of user error too :). Now, I ride fewer miles and put out way less power than the pros, but I agree that user error is most likely a bigger portion of the issue. Especially with Skipper, if he cannot keep a computer mount firmly attached to his bike, then I am not giving him the benefit of the doubt on other simple maintenance of his drivetrain to keep it performing properly.

yes, but user error is normal. if equipment relies on perfect usage (from a fatigued human) then its not really fit for purpose.
sure, if you do something really stupid like dump a bunch of gears at both ends simultaneously then thats on you but minor mistakes shouldn't result in a significant mechanical

i don't really understand why minimal chain catchers aren't standard. there is minimal downside to them but you substantially reduce the risk of dropped chains which can be a big impact

I don't think they narrowed the gap on front shifting, they just literally narrowed the gap between chainring sizes (because it's easier for the front derailleur to function that way) and tried to push everyone to 1x.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Oh, it's narrowed if viewing over the decades. The first generation of mechanical Red front shifting was bad full-stop. I believe this was the "Andy Schleck incident" era. Second generation Red22 was better after they stiffened up some stuff and introduced the Yaw thing. Both generations of eTap have been pretty great IMO. There are the known issues of a slight delay vs. Shimano (likely to wait for both levers to be hit at once), and maybe slightly more chain dropping than Shimano. But otherwise it's crisp, quick, and pretty dang tolerant of shifting under load. Chain dropping is not a thing for me.

what trail said. yes, you're restricted to certain gear pairings. but SRAM has always been ahead of shimano on available rear gears. that only closed when shimano finally came out with their first ever 1:1 road ratio a couple of years ago. so, each has had its issues with available gears over the years. as to FD performance, i remember when SRAM had FD trim on either the inside or the outside but not both, with the result that you just had chain rub somewhere on the FD cage. this goes back 15 years or more, pre-electronic. i think SRAM has had to wait out patents and soldier through some rough times. not so much anymore. FD works quite well. the main issue with the FD, if you have a chain catcher installed, is that you have to take the chain off to affix the jig that helps you adjust the FD. it's not a straightforward adjust. a lot of stuff i used to know how to do - sizing a chain, adjusting the FD - you have to kind of throw that knowledge out and work on SRAM the way SRAM wants you to do it.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Shimano makes a powermeter?? I thought they had cornered the market on crank-based random number generators.

Lol who's the stupid one? He didn't mention PM at all in the rant and he has never used Shimano PMs at all. Even confirms this in the comments.

Most people (including Joe) admit that the best quality groupset combines Shimano derailleurs with a 3rd party PM and Shimano rings.

Before you call someone stupid...

1. First Skipper says that the power data was garbage. Immediately he says:
2. "Power meter is the same family as SRAM".
3. Goes on a rant about how SRAM sucks and Shimano is better, without getting into specifics.
4. People point out in the comments that Shimano's power meters are a joke compared do SRAM's. (Did they not watch the video? Oh wait, they did...)

The whole discussion arose from Skipper ranting in the context of a failing power meter. He didn't say he was talking strictly about the groupset. Instead he chose to use the lawyer analogy which he thought was brilliant but which further pointed in the direction of power meters more than cogs and teeth. People consider context. He's the one that put the rant in that context, which made it sound very silly.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Thread is another reminder that people on the internet don't have a sense of humour...

He wasnt 'ranting' at all...

Hot takes from Hasbeens for Attention, meh.

I was expecting an entertaining "shat thyself mid-bike" thread... Carry on.

Thanks. I just spewed coke on my keyboard. That really was hilarious!

Per his instagram he’s rocking a SRM now.

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Let food be thy medicine...

Maybe you are the stupid one sitting next to skipper…. Listen a bit closer…

This. 1 billion %.
I had endless problems with the SRAM front mech / throwing the chain off, on the TT bike. Nothing to do with the adjustment. All to do with a derailleur that was not stiff enough. The fact it came as-made with a built in catcher tells you how shit it was.
Yet because that catcher was attached to the same shit derailleur it too flexed and the chain could (and did) push past the catcher, and making an even bigger mess to sort roadside. On occasions I had to split the chain, and at others remove the mech to retrieve the chain !

Swapped to Shimano... not a problem in multi- years since.

I'm certain rhe reason SRAM pushed 1x in MTB so heavily is because they just couldn't develop a front mech that wasn't a total OS.

You can buy a new driver body for your hub (costs about $60-80) to switch a wheelset from XDR to shimano, takes all of 3 minutes to swap. Not sure I’d call that “locked in.”

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Matt

I was going to post something similar. It was a relatively mild complaint that he tried to dress up as humour. It was hardly a rant.

If it’s important that we label Joe’s speech as a mild complaint and not a rant, I declare full readiness to drop the “rant” designation from all my future posts on this video 😉

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I personally think you should write (pen and paper) to Skipper and apologise profusely…….

I actually thought his analogy and going for a pint with SRAM but relying on Shimano when you want to do serous business was quite amusing for him.