99% sure your race pace was just too fast.

Until you learn to control it, no matter how much you swim(train), you'll end up in the same state. Gasssssed!

Next race, dial back the effort and see how it feels. Stay out of the fray. Find a sustainable rhythm and don't worry about where you place.

You'll also benefit on the bike and run by not having jacked your swim heartrate through the moon.

Good luck!!

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

I'm no expert swimmer, but have definitely experienced what you described. Swimming in a race around other people is palpably different than swimming laps in a pool by yourself. You heart rate skyrockets, your breathing is fast and shallow, and it's hard to get that back under control while still swimming forward and making progress. It takes more of a toll on your body than you would expect a swim of that distance to take.

It took me a ton of practice to get used to 1. Open water swimming, 2. Swimming in/around/on/under other people, and 3. Swimming as part of a race.

Numbers 1 and 2 you can practice fairly easily if you live near somewhere to swim in the open water. Swim in the open water when the weather allows, or when you have a race coming up. If there is a tri club local to you, join if you haven't already. They will probably have swim workouts or meetups where you can practice swimming in close proximity to others. As far as practicing racing, the more you race the more you'll get used to it! :)

first, congratulations. second, here's a poorly understood (and often unacknowledged) truism: if you swim in a pool you get a rest every time you turn. you get a muscular rest for sure, and your rest is both in ventilation and muscular if you swim with open turns (i.e., you don't flip turn). no problem! 2 or 3 open water swims and you'll close that gap.

if you don't or can't do open water swims, just make sure you do some long sustained swims in the pool. as in, say, at least 1500 and up to 3000 yards. again, you only need a few. 2 or 3 within a month of your race.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan, thank you. So crazy. In my swim this evening I thought about exactly what you describe. I realized that I get a short break every 25 meters. When I swam competitively, I would flip turn when I swam freestyle. I was mainly a a breast-stroker, so i didn't flip turn too much. Maybe I just need to start flip turning. The challenge presented with a flip turn is that you get a stronger push off the pool wall, which eats up distance as you glide under the surface. I actually started holding my breath at the wall and turning quickly with a push turn to avoid getting a small break. I also began swimming laps with mixed strokes, like breast to free, to side, to crawl, to swimming free with my head fully elevated, just to kind of mimic some of what I experienced in the event. But I think I'll just try to get into a lake or the ocean a few times before my next event (June 17.)

if i were you i'd continue to flip turn in the pool. that and a few sustained swims in the pool - watch the clock, see if you can better your PR in the pool each time - that'll serve you well. swim a 1,500yd straight. warm up for a few hundred yards and then swim that straight, on the clock. do that 3 times over the next 3 weeks. you'll be a new person.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

One thing I did not see, did you wear a wetsuit for this swim? If so, could be some issues there too, but as cheese said, most likely you just went out too hard. And that is not uncommon, in fact "most" folks go out too hard. You could even try it in the pool, do an all out 100, and I mean all out, and then try and go hard for 300 more yards without any break. It will feel similar to what you went through, although it is worse in a race because of the extra panic that sets in with all the bodies thrashing around you..

So understanding this dynamic is the first step, you just have to give into the mentality that you race like a dog. Difference is you have a big brain(and some of our dogs actually learn this too) and can force what your body does once the gun goes off and your brain turns off. Many little tricks, start on the edges, at the back, and swim like you are doing water ballet, and not all out racing. You just want to get through that swim feeling good, not breathing out of control, and passing folks towards the end, not being passed..

But all normal and virtually everyone here has gone through, or still goes through this kind of thing. And yes, keep swimming in the pool like pool swimmers do, flip turns and all. Build your confidence there by going faster with better technique and hard work, and that will translate to confidence in the OW...

I have questions:

- What is your 100 meter average over a 400 meter swim, and how does that compare to this swim?
- What was the sea state for the swim? Glass smooth, light chop, wind, etc?
- Assuming you were wearing a device that records GPS during the swim, what does your track look like?
- Were you wearing a wet suit, and was it professionally fit if you were?
- Can you comfortably breath to both sides, and were you forced to change breathing sides due to traffic, wave action, the sun, etc?

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"...the street finds its own uses for things"

Thanks Monty. I wore a full suit. It fits nicely and isn't restrictive (it's a QR HydroSix2.) But it was a little odd, even after practicing with it on. I'm going to take your advice to heart.

I average (in a pool) about 9 minutes over 400 meters in a full suit. My swim time at the Sprint was over 12 minutes. The water was not glassy, but not really choppy. Kind of in-between. I don't use a GPS. Had a suit, nit fit, but fits well. I have free movement at the shoulders. It literally feels like I'm unrestricted. I am a one-sided breather. But I fund myself looking up and forward quite a bit. whilst I'm otherwise a face down swimmer. I have good freestyle form, as I used to swim competitively and had some coaching. It's juts that I'm finding out, as everyone else here did, that swimming in the open with a bunch of people requires a totally different approach.

Another workout you can try in the pool to learn to control heart rate while swimming is to swim 25 fly straight into 75 free, and keep cycling through that set for 4 or 5 cycles without rest. The fly will spike your heart rate (at least it does for me!) and then on the 75 free the challenge is to swim smooth and fast while getting your heart rate under control. This will teach you some of the skills you'll need in a race setting.

Also, you say you swam competitively, so I bet you'll see huge improvements if you just keep racing tris because you have the massive advantage of good technique, you just need some familiarity with the setting.

Good luck on your next race.

Butterfly is the great molder of swimmers. Very challenging to do correctly. Really blows you out. I finished with 100 yard fly last night, followed by breast with my head out of the water looking forward the whole time. I'm now trying to mimic open water swimming amongst friends. I'll take your advice and incorporate it as suggested. Thank you.

Reading through the posts I to have a couple of comments.


You mentioned you were a competitive swimmer, but in Breaststroke (as was I). It's almost impossible to do a proper breaststroke in a wetsuit (because your legs ride way too high) and that makes switching between strokes tricky in open water.


Second there's no body contact in lane swimming and that really elevates the HR in open water. I still hate it. One of the coaches in a Tri club I swam with was really smart and introduced water polo to a few practices. We were encouraged to play dirty. The comfort level changed instantly on the next open water swim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtG1BRW0XNo&ab_channel=HerbertKrabel


This is an old and funny commercial that sums up open water to new swimmers. But truthfully if you have any friends to swim with, playing a little nasty water polo would make a world of difference.

LOL....very funny video. BUT, did you see how he completed his strokes? With head up and forward? Crazy. And yeah, the suit kept my legs buoyant and I couldn't get a good kick on any breast. I'm thinking about a shortie for the next swim. Thanks!

I have good freestyle form, as I used to swim competitively and had some coaching. //

I have too ask this, as something seems off here. You swam competitively back in the day, and now you struggle with 2;10 pool pace per 100 and 3 minute in races with a wetsuit on?? Have you been out of the water since those days and just getting back to it? Because those are really not the times of an ex swimmer with a good stroke, perhaps there is something else going on??

Monty...I've been out of it for a while. Swam competitively from ages 10 to 15. I was mediocre at free (and that's being very generous.) I defaulted to breast stoke, as our team was always short of swimmers in that category. And at breast I was average. I have short arms and I'm slight. I don't generate lots of upper body power. But I did get lots of coaching that I recall. I'm also now 55 and just re-entered the pool in a competitive manner for Tris. Otherwise, I've been swimming lots recreationally for years, to include lots of ocean swimming. I can swim all day, just not very fast!

So, what would be considered an acceptable 50 meter time for someone like me? I assume under a minute?

I wouldnt use the word acceptable, but for an ex swimmer from the old days, one would expect at worst something like a 45 to 50 second 50 at the beginning, and certainly much faster once you got your old stroke back in shape. The stroke never leaves you, just the fitness required to propel it. One of the conundrum's of adult onset swimmers(AOS here). They work their asses off and it takes forever to get any speed in the pool, while long ago ex swimmers get in and a month later do times that take them years, or never...

Okay, thank you. I figure a few more months of swim training, maybe some coaching and a couple more sprints, and I'll be a fairly good swimmer.

The anxiety of an open water swim may be your problem. You may want to try slowing down, trying to relax, and breathing every stroke until you feel more comfortable. Also, try staying away for others. For me, if someone hits me, I feel an immediate increase in my heart rate (probably just in my mind). good luck.

Here are the main issues that could be affecting your open water swim and most have already been mentioned:

- You went out the first 100m significantly above your ability level. This is what I see most frequently and most athletes blow up around 200-300m into the race.
- Your wetsuit is too constricting and you are having a tough time breathing and/or moving.
- You aren't training enough for the distance. You aren't swimming much per week, so it is probably both your fitness specific to the swim and your technique that are an issue.
- You are having a mental issue around the open water swim. Generally, athletes know deep down they haven't done the training they need for the event. I've found with athletes the best way to overcome this is harder, more consistent and focused work in the pool (you increase your swim fitness and technique to be way above the demands of the race) and go do more open water races. Don't do more open water practice swims, do more races. Practice open water swims will typically make you slower with less efficient technique.
- Stop thinking that there is a significant difference between pool and open water swimming - there isn't.

If you have any questions about the training, please feel free to DM me.

Tim

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http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Thanks Tim!

You can’t go wrong with SnappingTs post and tips

I’ve done ow races where I’ve gone out super hard and blown up and had people swim over the top me 3-400m from the finish and then I’ve had races where I’ve started “easy” and negative split where you swim in the second half faster. Everyone is different, but I suspect many would find the second method more enjoyable.

Now I go out very controlled and after 2-300 pick up the pace and try to pass people.

If your event is a run into the water and start swimming, I’ve heard some really unfortunate accidents where really good level swimmers, elite guys, have fallen over and broken their shoulder. Just not worth it to rush at the start.
Read up the tips that Monty wrote above, start a the side, start maybe, second in line, not on the front row, consciously think about negative splitting

It will get better, probably. Two responses:

1. Swam 10 years competitively, including college, and then trained well for first tri. First open water tri was the worst, I-bet-I-die-right-now experience I've ever had. Part of it was the (very mild) chop and the sighting, which were just alien to me then. I still don't love really packed starts after 15 years.

2. My solution: I start at the edge of a start wave, with the whole group on my left (where I breathe). Clear water and some extra yards is way faster for me, and calmer. It's actually the only time I can swim in a big body of water like that, and it feels like a luxury.

3. (One for free). Take a vacation to the ocean and play around. Open water swimming with currents and waves is pretty great. See if you can get into that headspace and then tap into it on raceday. In a recent Fishes thread one of the many generous, and, I'm pretty sure, internationally renowned (monty I feel like I should know your palmares by now, apologies!) posters described ocean swimming, and it was kind of poetic:

Thank you for all the replies. I'll take everyone's advice to heart!

That was one of the best posts I’ve seen on here. Glad you posted it so I read it again