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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [TCoBGuy] [ In reply to ]
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TCoBGuy wrote:
Sam’s position looks kind of bad. Very upright and very little saddle to pad drop. A lot different from previous seasons.

Have noticed multiple pros raising pads following wind tunnel tests this winter.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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my big takeaways:

-tamara has officially arrived. surely 1:13 flat is the best women's run ever? but the bigger story, to me, is that she held her own on the swim and bike. no woman in the sport can afford to leave T2 with her, and most would need at least a few minutes' buffer. let's see how she goes against bigger fields, because i think she's now in the discussion.

-kat mathews is back. for her to podium here, look comfortable doing it, and run as fast as she did is deeply impressive. IM texas will be the real check, but for now it looks like she's a force to be reckoned with this year.

-sodaro seems to be developing a dangerous MO of staying off the radar during the swim and bike, but being exactly where she needs to be to unleash a great run. in any other year her run would probably be the story of the day, but . . .

-paula said she never races well at oceanside. she's got enough class to fake the bike against this field, but maybe she's lacking race fitness on the run. hope it isn't an injury or something.

-i've said for a while that half-distance is the most exciting racing in tri, and here we are - the level has gone waay up. imagine being someone like trevor foley, running a 1:11, and knowing that wouldn't win the race even if you'd led out of T2!

-had hoped to see kanute win some hardware but 4th in this gongshow isn't bad. i like his style more and more and am still optimistic that he's building toward a big season.

-with bergere showing like this you have to wonder if some of the other short-coursers are interested in trying to get invited to some PTO races. could be a nice tidy way to make some big money.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Last edited by: iron_mike: Apr 1, 23 13:30
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Replying to you as it's the last post.

Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [davegibb26.2] [ In reply to ]
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davegibb26.2 wrote:
Longs performance is definitely not a good omen for the year. Destroyed on the swim and the run, run mainly because his ego got on his way on the bike. Bike for show...

Well he had to make up time on bike so could close the gap but runners were too damn fast. I wonder changes he’s made are not working. Definitely, this is not him although it’s early in the season.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Replying to you as it's the last post.

Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

I liked it a lot.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Replying to you as it's the last post.

Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

"new swim course record" ..... because teh swim was a new course moved from the ocean to the bay, otherwise cant say its a new record since it doesnt match old conditions which include surf. reason for the move was that it was warmer in the bay.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [Tritalkingfacts] [ In reply to ]
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Would have been nice to actually know what was said...
It was one of the highlights of the race, and Welchy doesn't ask about it? C'mon, do better.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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I like it. It’s a nice change of pace.

blog
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Re: Re: [Lock_N_Load] [ In reply to ]
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Lock_N_Load wrote:
Engner66 wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
pk wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
Thorsten's take on TriRating (stats based):
https://www.trirating.com/...-april-1st-seedings/
Findlay - Lawrence - Matthews - Watts - Sodaro - Jewett
Long - Bergère - Kanute - Taagholt - West - Laundry
https://www.triathlete.com/...de-pro-race-preview/



i wonder what has Watts done for thorsten to suggest she is favorite over sodaro . the only time they raced against each other, sodaro was 5 min faster in a pto race ... one is top 10 and the other has no pto voting rights atm .


Yeah, sometimes I wonder if Thorsten relies wayyyy too heavily on numbers and doesn't take other important factors into consideration. I love me some Kat Matthews but after the horrendous crash she had I would not have her on a podium forecast at all. If she makes podium it would be an incredible story that i would absolutely love but the chances of that are really bad.

His picks for the men make more sense although Bergere is new to 70.3 and really is a wildcard as to what he can do against the 70.3 specialists. Well, and now that I hear that he is recovering from COVID I wouldn't give him a chance, but Thorsten did not know that when he put these picks together.


Probably about the tenth time that this has been clarified in this thread. Bergere is not new to 70.3, he already won Mallorca against other 70.3 specialists.

If he has COVID, he probably shouldn't race.


So you would put Bergere's 70.3 experience and level of competition on par with Long, Kanute, West etc.? I wouldn't.

oh yes, I did. Although I put Laundry to beat him since I am always biased towards our local athletes. This isn't about experience, it's about being the better athlete. The IM obsessed crowd just don't get it. The skillset required to race ITU at the highest level will always be transferable to the longer stuff. Don't see Bergere racing 70.3 anytime soon again, he has bigger fish to fry trying to beat the top dogs in Paris next year.

Also super happy for Jewett winning the women's race. I wasn't long ago when many of us amateurs where around or a bit faster than her during the swim-bike sections at local races, then seeing her passing us running like 3:20/km and having the fastest overall run split (faster than all men) and all of us wondering where did this girl come from? Now that her swim-bike combo has improved, she will do some serious damage.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [Raw Oyster] [ In reply to ]
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Raw Oyster wrote:
Would have been nice to actually know what was said...
It was one of the highlights of the race, and Welchy doesn't ask about it? C'mon, do better.
Tritalkingfacts wrote:
There was no issue, they were laughing and joking
This ^^^ "all jokes; no issues". Ellie Salthouse not racing ;)
Welch was coping with a tearful Matthews. "I can't see the finish without crying."
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Replying to you as it's the last post.

Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

Well, I guess when I come to the front page for a race article that's what I'm looking for...you know a little more than watching paint dry.


Commentary on the comms, there is clearly a science on how many times they do sponsor call outs. They need to do them a whole lot less and more natural. The sponsor is getting a ton of value from all the signage...the point of call outs is to make them feel seamless rather than the forced we have.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting, this new format is very good.
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Re: Re: [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
Engner66 wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
pk wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
Thorsten's take on TriRating (stats based):
https://www.trirating.com/...-april-1st-seedings/
Findlay - Lawrence - Matthews - Watts - Sodaro - Jewett
Long - Bergère - Kanute - Taagholt - West - Laundry
https://www.triathlete.com/...de-pro-race-preview/



i wonder what has Watts done for thorsten to suggest she is favorite over sodaro . the only time they raced against each other, sodaro was 5 min faster in a pto race ... one is top 10 and the other has no pto voting rights atm .


Yeah, sometimes I wonder if Thorsten relies wayyyy too heavily on numbers and doesn't take other important factors into consideration. I love me some Kat Matthews but after the horrendous crash she had I would not have her on a podium forecast at all. If she makes podium it would be an incredible story that i would absolutely love but the chances of that are really bad.

His picks for the men make more sense although Bergere is new to 70.3 and really is a wildcard as to what he can do against the 70.3 specialists. Well, and now that I hear that he is recovering from COVID I wouldn't give him a chance, but Thorsten did not know that when he put these picks together.


Probably about the tenth time that this has been clarified in this thread. Bergere is not new to 70.3, he already won Mallorca against other 70.3 specialists.

If he has COVID, he probably shouldn't race.


So you would put Bergere's 70.3 experience and level of competition on par with Long, Kanute, West etc.? I wouldn't.

oh yes, I did. Although I put Laundry to beat him since I am always biased towards our local athletes. This isn't about experience, it's about being the better athlete. The IM obsessed crowd just don't get it. The skillset required to race ITU at the highest level will always be transferable to the longer stuff. Don't see Bergere racing 70.3 anytime soon again, he has bigger fish to fry trying to beat the top dogs in Paris next year.

Also super happy for Jewett winning the women's race. I wasn't long ago when many of us amateurs where around or a bit faster than her during the swim-bike sections at local races, then seeing her passing us running like 3:20/km and having the fastest overall run split (faster than all men) and all of us wondering where did this girl come from? Now that her swim-bike combo has improved, she will do some serious damage.

No one discounted Bergere's ability. He was 9 days removed from a Covid19 infection, and it was his second IM 70.3 on a time trial bike.

I didn't expect him to win given the circumstances and the killer race field. I also wondered if he was more consistent versus talented as his WTCS win was pretty lucky given all the situations that had to happen for him to win. Plus WTCS had drafting and a strong team racing dynamic.

Bergere proved he is undeniably an incredible talent. He was amazing today. He even swam into a buoy and was untouchable on the swim gapping the field as if it was a walk in the park.

I was a fan before this race. I now have to say he is a remarkable talent. I cannot wait to see what France lines up for the Olympics in Paris.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

Thank you for getting that up.
1) Was Findlay and Matthews (not Jewett) who caught Lawrence: Findlay took lead and Matthews stayed in #3. There was a top age grouper standard MPRO (Edit: whom I've identified as Ben Stern (USA) #61 - rode with the WPROs train for 40+ miles) behind Matthews in the train and then Sodaro and Jewett tagging on all through the camp. I think Matthews was being conservative, unsurprisingly. But she then kicked on and stretched the group (a bit) in that last 10 miles. But the opportunity to drop Jewett had not been taken by those three for different reasons, I surmise: Findlay not at her superb mid-2022 TT cycling level, Lawrence had been caught 100 sec by half way and as said Matthews in prudence mode.
2) Lawrence rehearsed that she was going to arms and thighs in the HTT interview. Now Emma PB is the swimsuit stalwart.
3) Sodaro great run against any field (including Haug) except that Jewett totally eclipsed her. I thought Jewett would have had to overbike: clearly not, she stayed in #5 more or less all the way round. And that was based on Jewett's best ever swim, I think. She went full time in the autumn and clearly has had a great winter. Knibb in the commentary 'hut' would've seen that and gone 'mmmm' thinking forward to Lahti, and I bet Gentle is 'looking on' (for PTO races as well). Sodaro will take note for the PTO races and not 'sit in' like she did for the whole bike, if she wants to win. Intriguing!
4) But excelling at Oceanside is not associated with a great season, and vice versa.
5) Matthews' swim was better than previous; she'd not expect to exit ahead of Sodaro and particularly Findlay. And pressed the latter stages of the bike. Good run, but the two ahead were stellar and world class respectively. (Haug ran 1:16 with 2018 shoes, for reference). I suspect she eased off in the second half of the run, with the prospect of Texas/Woodlands in 3 weeks. After her serious injuries in late September there pre-Kona, after the Texas driver cleared her, I hope she hasn't rushed back to a high training load too fast.
6) In the men McElroy chip must have failed. He was #4 out of the water and second group on the bike, drifting back in the final quarter. He and Goodwin (best race from the latter since his #3 at PTO/Challenge Daytona 2020) both overhauled Long at 11 miles ish to finish #6 and #5. "Bergere noticed how close he was and pressed on the gas to keep his win locked in and a new course record owned." Agree the controlled element of Bergère's pacing but not sure where you get the 'record' bit: Laundry's time last year is 26 seconds better. https://stats.protriathletes.org/...ifornia/2022/results
7) I echo your point 6: replay gliches
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Apr 3, 23 12:54
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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Which is funny. Because he broke Andy Potts Swim course record.. Which was swam in the Harbor as well.

E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

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Re: Re: [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Good point about team dynamics, at the last race in Abu Dhabi, Bergere was actually the "slowest" of the French Olympic guys, placing behind Luis and Coninx with a 14:51 5 k. With the fastest 5 k times around 14:30 and faster than what any of the French guys is currently running, I wonder if they will use him to really force the pace on the swim and bike in an effort to break things up on and see if they can gap Yee, Vilaca et al.

Easier said than done, but I really wish we would get rid of drafting on WTS races.
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Re: Re: [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Too many guys all swimming same ability to make non draft fair at that level. you guys large groups of athletes all getting into t1 together it’s too much pressure on officials.

Eta: I actually find the 10m-12m zones not worth much and if they can’t go to 20m I’d actually rather them iust go to DL and get rid of all the stupid position fouls. Either truly make it non draft or go DL. And yes I know no one else feels that way. I just find current 10-12m setup not all tjay great for pros regardless of what IM says.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Apr 1, 23 15:54
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [mstewarttri] [ In reply to ]
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Long was down 2 minutes in the swim to Kanute

Is that better than usual?
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Re: Re: [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
Good point about team dynamics, at the last race in Abu Dhabi, Bergere was actually the "slowest" of the French Olympic guys, placing behind Luis and Coninx with a 14:51 5 k. With the fastest 5 k times around 14:30 and faster than what any of the French guys is currently running, I wonder if they will use him to really force the pace on the swim and bike in an effort to break things up on and see if they can gap Yee, Vilaca et al.

Easier said than done, but I really wish we would get rid of drafting on WTS races.

I love drafting dynamics, but in WTCS the drafting negates stronger cyclists. I totally agree that getting rid of WTCS drafting would make it exponentially better. Basically it's been relegated to a swim run race.
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Re: Re: [Sub17Project] [ In reply to ]
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Sub17Project wrote:
Engner66 wrote:
Good point about team dynamics, at the last race in Abu Dhabi, Bergere was actually the "slowest" of the French Olympic guys, placing behind Luis and Coninx with a 14:51 5 k. With the fastest 5 k times around 14:30 and faster than what any of the French guys is currently running, I wonder if they will use him to really force the pace on the swim and bike in an effort to break things up on and see if they can gap Yee, Vilaca et al.

Easier said than done, but I really wish we would get rid of drafting on WTS races.


I love drafting dynamics, but in WTCS the drafting negates stronger cyclists. I totally agree that getting rid of WTCS drafting would make it exponentially better. Basically it's been relegated to a swim run race.

Not a horrible swim by Sam, but he’s got to be puzzled by the very poor run. It was Starky like, kill the bike then stagger home on the run

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
Long was down 2 minutes in the swim to Kanute

Is that better than usual?
Definitely a good swim from him.

General notes from the day:
Swim dynamics were tough to read. It felt like an underperform or overperform day depending on how well you positioned. I positioned poorly and had to underswim the start.

Bike was slow for some reason (almost certainly surface). My rather large pack was respecting the draft zone pretty well. Seemed like the guys further up were as well from the brief out and back I saw of them. Never saw anyone in penalty tents but I do think some penalties were handed out behind me.

Great conditions for a fairly quick run. Just a tad on the warm side. Absolutely insane run performances from West and Jewett. I had my fastest full 13.1 ever in 1:13:09 and it was barely a top 10 run performance. Wild.

We got some great weather and the race quality was fantastic as we expect from Ironman (despite all my other issues with them).

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Re: [Engner66] [ In reply to ]
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Engner66 wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
Engner66 wrote:
Lock_N_Load wrote:
pk wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
Thorsten's take on TriRating (stats based):
https://www.trirating.com/...-april-1st-seedings/
Findlay - Lawrence - Matthews - Watts - Sodaro - Jewett
Long - Bergère - Kanute - Taagholt - West - Laundry
https://www.triathlete.com/...de-pro-race-preview/



i wonder what has Watts done for thorsten to suggest she is favorite over sodaro . the only time they raced against each other, sodaro was 5 min faster in a pto race ... one is top 10 and the other has no pto voting rights atm .


Yeah, sometimes I wonder if Thorsten relies wayyyy too heavily on numbers and doesn't take other important factors into consideration. I love me some Kat Matthews but after the horrendous crash she had I would not have her on a podium forecast at all. If she makes podium it would be an incredible story that i would absolutely love but the chances of that are really bad.

His picks for the men make more sense although Bergere is new to 70.3 and really is a wildcard as to what he can do against the 70.3 specialists. Well, and now that I hear that he is recovering from COVID I wouldn't give him a chance, but Thorsten did not know that when he put these picks together.


Probably about the tenth time that this has been clarified in this thread. Bergere is not new to 70.3, he already won Mallorca against other 70.3 specialists.

If he has COVID, he probably shouldn't race.


So you would put Bergere's 70.3 experience and level of competition on par with Long, Kanute, West etc.? I wouldn't.

oh yes, I did. Although I put Laundry to beat him since I am always biased towards our local athletes. This isn't about experience, it's about being the better athlete. The IM obsessed crowd just don't get it. The skillset required to race ITU at the highest level will always be transferable to the longer stuff. Don't see Bergere racing 70.3 anytime soon again, he has bigger fish to fry trying to beat the top dogs in Paris next year.

Also super happy for Jewett winning the women's race. I wasn't long ago when many of us amateurs where around or a bit faster than her during the swim-bike sections at local races, then seeing her passing us running like 3:20/km and having the fastest overall run split (faster than all men) and all of us wondering where did this girl come from? Now that her swim-bike combo has improved, she will do some serious damage.

Yep, he absolutely surprised me. Not only because he had COVID recently but I really thought Long and Kanute would do better. Bergere just keeps getting better and better. I’m interested in what that whole bottle down his shirt strategy was all about. I have seen more and more guys do this. I wonder what the benefits are of doing it that way.

That Jason West and Tamara Jewett are total beasts. I’m looking forward to their seasons. But the story of the day is Kat Matthews. Incredible.

------------------
http://dontletitdefeatyou.blogspot.com
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Re: Re: [Lock_N_Load] [ In reply to ]
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I think it comes from an aero study by Dan Bigham (if I recall correctly). The idea is that it helps close cavity between your chest and arms and makes it more aero. I believe Blu, Iden and Laidlow used the same trick in Kona.

Just saw the replay and I was actually surprised how unpolished Bergere looked on the TT bike. I agree with someone else's comment about Long's position, it does look like he is sitting very high and not super aero compared to his position from a few seasons ago. His swim was great though. Kanute's position is just textbook as per usual. It seems as if Findlay also looks really dialed in after switching from Trek to Specialized.

What a run by West and Jewett.

Really exciting first race. Looking forward to the rest of the season.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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rrheisler wrote:
Replying to you as it's the last post.

Our race story is live. https://www.slowtwitch.com/...nside_70.3_8653.html

Intrigued to see how people react to how we decided to provide commentary of the action versus a more straightforward "news" story. We're trying new stuff out. Some of it will land. Some of it won't.

I don’t really like it. I’m not sure what it adds. Threads such as this one are more or less a live commentary on the action, so what is gained by a front page version?

I’ll admit, I came across it at toward the end of the race and at first didn’t really know what I was looking at. I thought someone accidentally posted the notes they were going to use to write an article. Maybe I would have found it more interesting if I had been following it from the beginning.
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Re: Oceanside 70.3 Start list is fire; 73 MPRO [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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"new swim course record" ..... because teh swim was a new course moved from the ocean to the bay, otherwise cant say its a new record since it doesnt match old conditions which include surf. reason for the move was that it was warmer in the bay.[/quote]
The course this year was the exact course used every year except for 2 or 3 of the reason iterations. More importantly, the course record which was set by Potts was definitely this same course.

The “new” course is the one that starts from the beach, into the surf, and has always been stated as conditional on the height of the surf, and apparently other conditions?? It is hard to believe the water in the harbor is warmer than the water that feeds the harbor, but that is what they said.
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