at this stage they cant sub somebody in as they have used their one sub in chance.
besides gwen is now last in the waitng list, which is fairness is quite shitty by usat. if an american drops out serano would get in .

besides gwen is now last in the waitng list, which is fairness is quite shitty by usat. if an american drops out serano would get in . //

But is that really a USAT decision where Gwen and Gina end up on the waiting list, or is it that once subbed out you automatically go to the back of the list?? If automatic, then nothing shitty there, and if Knibb did bow out or someone else, couldn't they just pull Gina off the list to get to Gwen??

I really have no idea how all those intricacies work, but do feel that giving both GJ and KZ one big shot at the team thing was the right thing to do. But if somehow they can get Gwen back on that start list, they should do everything they can to facilitate that also...

The point about Yokohama travel is well taken. However, the race is "Paris-specific" in terms of distance and course, and the opportunity to practice short-course type transitions, pack dynamics and everything else in a high pressure top level draft-legal race environment provides additional value.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

In the 'no idea' camp too but agree both your points.
I caveated the 'sup KK or Rappa out' option earlier by saying I didn't know whether the procedure so allowed - @pk says not.

Replying in general:

I looked at 2023 WTCS race results for the USA women:

Spivey
- 6 Top 10 placements
- Abu Dhabi - 3rd
- Yokohama - 4th
- Cagliari - 3rd
- Montreal - 9th
- Hamburg - 7th
- Paris Test Event - 10th
- Pontevedra - 16th

Rappaport
- 5 Top 10 placements
- Abu Dhabi - 4th
- Yokohama - 10th
- Cagliari - 7th
- Montreal - 3rd
- Hamburg - 10th
- Paris Test Event - 16th
- Pontevedra - DNF

Kasper
- 4 Top 15 placements
- Abu Dhabi - 25th
- Yokohama - 8th
- Cagliari - 17th
- Montreal - 18th
- Hamburg - 14th
- Paris Test Event - 15th
- Pontevedra - 15th

Zaferes
- 3 Top 15 placements
- Abu Dhabi - 37th
- Cagliari - 12th
- Montreal - 5th
- Hamburg - 18th
- Paris Test Event - 12th
- Pontevedra - 19th

Jorgensen
- Cagliari - Lapped out
- Hamburg - 30th
- Sunderland - 24th
- Pontevedra - 43rd

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blog

so when you get subed out and want to race you get back on the waiting list as you are considered a late entry. which means you go to the end off the entry list regardless what your ranking is . if you look at the current waitng list there is no 3 athletes behind gwen as they entered later.

a fed can only sub in 1 athlete per gender per race.

and yes i was wrong with calling it shitty by usat as i can not think of a workaround what usat could have done better , and even if usat had told gwen not to enter and katie would have gotten the direct spot it would not have helped her.

https://www.triathlon.org/...cedures_20211218.pdf
point 8 is the key one in the document

Yes, I have thought about posting a similar list. Not much of a case for Gwen there. USAT were right to give Katie a chance by subbing out Gwen.
Friday night will say a lot. Gwen's last chance?
Has to show top level form.

Also gives Knibb a chance to improve her ranking, which is used for pontoon draw, which is critical in Paris.

This list doesn't entirely tell you what you think it tells you. There is context.

What context is that?

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blog

I'm sure you know as you've been here on this forum and following this ITU thread for long enough, but here you go, some of it below:

All others but Gwen entered all of those WTCS races directly, these were the races they had penciled in their calendar and prepared for. Gwen on the other hand would not know sometimes a day or two before the race whether she would be on the start list.

Gwen, because she came back to the sport after a long absence, had to race all over the world in smaller races (World and Continental cups) all year long to accumulate as many points as possible to even be able to figure on those WTCS start lists in 2024 (that was her main goal for 2023, as it should be, and she succeeded in it). Sometimes it meant racing back to back to back weekends doing World cups before Pontevedra for example. She scored lots of points as a result, which was the goal, but obviously hardly the ideal preparation for the big race.

Etc...

I think that’s fair context. But I will say that she had her chances in 2023 and she wasn’t able to take advantage of them.

It’s a shame Abu Dhabi got cancelled. That would have hopefully provided more clarity. But I guess it could have muddied the waters as well.

However, there’s no real excuses for Yokohama this weekend. This one is in her control. Will she take advantage of it? We will find out.

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blog

Yes, agree that Yoko is in her control. But I also understand that things can happen in a race and she would have definitely preferred to have a few more bites at the apple in 2024 to show what she may be able to do (Abu Dhabi and Cagliari). Now for her it's definitely podium in Yoko or say good bye to her Paris dreams (although there's a very slim chance if she races well in Yoko, is first US girl but just missing the podium where it may give food for thoughts to the selectors).

I hope everyone who doubted her desire (and there were many when she announces the comeback) believe it now. It seems like she had really caught the bug and gone for it - all those bike races, swim groups, world cups, etc.

I hope she can get to T2 with the leaders. If there is some small break with Flora, Knibb (maybe Kingma? Is she still fast on S/B?), that is fine. I just want her to have an honest run against the main girls. That is what USAT needs to see.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

There is definitely context, but if we are being real, her performances last year were not just a few percent off where they needed to be - they were a long long way off. At no point in a WTS race did she get anywhere close to showing she can compete (only exception was the Sunderland relay where there is also context of a slightly weaker field with no one really hammering the bike etc).

All the travel etc may account for a few % off her best, but I do not think it accounts for much more.

A step change is needed this year for her to be in the ball park, but good luck to her.

though she earned her chances by going round the world a lot and making the points for it, not being subbed in like someone else and knowing in advance they'd do that race.
Now that she has the points and can have some fair chances they sub her out. It's pathetic from USAT. And it has been clear from the return of Gwen that the rest of the team was rallying against her.

Did anyone doubt her desire though? It seemed like people were doubting her ability not her desire (myself included).

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blog

Fair question - I don’t want to introduce strawmen into this.

I can’t quantify it,’but I remember across multiple platforms (this forum, social media comments) people questioning her resolve/ commitment. Comments about her just trying to milk more time from her sponsors, expecting everything to be handed to her, etc.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

i think that would be fair to say but she has totally proven that she was willing to do all the dirty work.

Yes - absolutely. Whatever happens, nobody should have any doubts about her commitment.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

You are right.. there were definitely comments about milking sponsors. Forgot about that.

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blog

Speaking for myself, when she announced that she's coming back and focusing on the mixed relay, you couldn't help but ask is she really serious about this? Of all people, she knows that there isn't a separate selection process for the MTR spot.

Of all people, she knows that there isn't a separate selection process for the MTR spot. //

Well not entirely true, as we now see on our team and The GB team too. No doubt the MTR will be the highest priority in picking our next man and perhaps woman, like GB will be doing with their last mens pick. Keep in mind that coaches picks are part of the selection process once AQ's have been exhausted, and looks like 3 of the 5 US picks will fall under that selection process..


But I get what you are saying, that early announcement was suspect by leaving out that the easiest way was to just make the team in an AQ. Which of course does not guarantee you on the MTR, as someone has to sit out of the 3..

I meant she knows specifically in the USAT and the depth of the US women, and when she said she's going for the MTR, it just sounds like either tone deaf or "milking another qualification cycle". I respect her efforts since then in racing all over the world to get on the start lists to prove herself, but I still don't think she will make it because the S/B are so much harder than when she was racing ITU. That's just my personal opinion of course.

Yes people did question her desire. There was a nice debate about it after Simon Whitfield said the desire and sacrifice to be the Olympic champion is something few people ever know and so he was really rooting for Gwen because when someone like her puts it on the line, it’s something special. The debate was civil, so not memorable perhaps.