Lionel didn't race.

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

I think ST is showing their discontent at how they were mis-treated at Miami where they complained about the lack of access to athletes. TBH i seldom read those articles which are not so great.
But given how several podcasts, which are linked to the PTO, downplay the problems in PTO races (broadcast, drafting, lack of tracking info, boring courses, lack of spectators.....) this must show the PTO that they have improvements to make if they want to be up to what they are marketing.
Given the longer part of the sport is the bike i would love to see how a TdF broadcast team with qualifed moto drivers would show the race. It would probably cost but in the end if your product is not shown correctly this is where the money invested in the series is wasted. London coudl be a good place for spectators as most venues are not very viewer friendly. The GF will look like Abu Dahbi with NO ONE watching. Terrible choice. Even if they get some money this is so short-sighted.
Put up a race in Germany, France or England and people will be there. Have you seen the Toulouse SLT? Tons of people in the streets, that make the atmosphere so much better for the athletes and for TV.

Race recaps are a thing of the past some are hanging onto when live coverage and dynamic trackers didn’t exist. There’s little value added for a race recap when I can go watch the whole race on YouTube and get a quick recap video in 15-20 min. Not to mention the race recaps rarely offer any inside information that you couldn’t get on your own by watching the race yourself or looking at the tracker live or after the fact.

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blog

Completely disagree from a personal preference POV. I’d much rather read a recap than search around for some video.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

This. After a podcast that basically said nothing about the race but dwelled on as "Media" they were not treated as royalty. Sorry, but those days are gone. Earn the treatment....

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Kiwami Racing Team

I tend to agree. I can read through a recap article in 2 min. A recap video still takes me 15 minutes (which is my second step after I read the recap article). Third step is play back the replay of the video if I get that far or I want something to watch on the trainer.

Or I watch a live event riding the trainer. But happy to get the recap article. I ask my staff at work to not send links to videos without a 7-10 bullet summary. That's like the article on what's in the video. Then if people are interested, they will open the video

I don't think ST sees itself as a place for reporting triathlon news. They may report on races - but not always.

1. Ryan and Eric have stated unless they are onsite or a correspondent is on site, they won't write about it. Doesn't matter the race.

2. If Moritz Events doesn't want to take care of media (food, a toilet, internet) and then provide athlete access via a mixed zone. Then they won't get good coverage from anyone. I've worked in the media in another niche sport, I've been to events where the media doesn't even get a box nasty. I've been to events where the there is an day buffet and unlimited nespressos. When you can't even get a sandwich, people won't submit for credentialing. Again, not in this sport, but I was the only journalist on the ground for an event and had a media manager treating me pretty poor. Everyone else writing or tweeting about the event wasn't there. Which was kinda normal for the sport in this country.

Point is, treat the media well.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I agree but sadly there is a pecking order. Having photographed a large number of WC races through the years one finds out it's WHO one knows and what you can do for them. Too many times we are denied access to a Moto and then you see a large number of coaches on motos and people using cell phones for imagery. It has become a joke but if wanting in the game one has to realize that and pander to it. Other than renting a helicopter (;-)) it's tough to get access if they don't see a value of you don't have friends in high places. Too many times I saw non qualified people on the course with access simply by knowing someone in Ironman or the like and the images showed it. As our sport is such a small niche sport, I can't see that changing too much.

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Kiwami Racing Team

LOL!

I hesitate sharing this, but as a daily patron of this site since 2001/02, I’ll share some possibly unpopular and overly opinionated thoughts, because I care about this site and for the friends I’ve made here, for how this site led to my saddle company, and for what this site has meant to triathlon:

I was sad that there wasn’t a T100 Singapore article and what that seems to say for the editorial passion for the sport of triathlon. We’re in a year with two triathlon pro series. The most active threads during race weekends and the Monday after are related to the pro races. There was sentiment here 4-5 years ago that the pros don’t matter - that sentiment has faded away on these messageboards, and in the wake of the PTO, IM has lended their intuitional legitimacy to the idea that pros do matter. But the front page doesn’t show an excitement for that side of the sport. I’m actually not sure what excitement is shown on the front page; I think the front page is full of more cynicism for the sport than intrinsic, undying passion for triathlon. I’ve always defended the front page when peers jokingly asked, ‘there’s a front page?’ But Triathlete, with its Outside-esque clickbait titles, is actually diving into the races with some passion. For me, I’d love for the front page of this site to feel like a smaller tri version of what’s happening over on Escape Collective, where articles like Ryan’s uphill skiing and end of a local 10k run event have a place alongside gear reviews, bike fit educational rants and passionate race commentary that goes beyond a recount of the race, but bring a Jonathan Gault of letsrun level of detail and passion, and editing. I loved Dan’s take on cleaning water bottles (I’m equally obsessed with bottle care and bottles in general) and even the small rant on foot care (a sentiment I share), and his article on IM expos needing endemic exhibitors to create a Sea Otter expo vibe was one of the best articles on this site imo, but these articles need editors to review and shape these diatribes and push for more sources, better photos, and clearer writing to shape and mold these little stories into something …. better. That takes money and time and I know Escape writers put in 12+ hour days and go back and forth with their editors, but this thing they’re co-creating drives them and that passion bleeds out onto their front page.

Pubes shared with me recently that Reddit forums, FB groups, Instagram and YouTube have so much content that maybe it’s too hard to compete, but I disagree. Singapore: I couldn’t completely tell what was happening during the race and had to wait for WhatsApp messages and emails from pros, Instagram posts to know what happened - a front page article that synthesized all of that disparate info into one place is what I want. Those scattered sources of content aren’t competition, they’re gold mines for content: comb that content (and these messageboards) to see what’s popular, regurgitate and edit it into single articles on the front page; embed YouTube videos but take us to the good parts in a weekly ‘best of YouTube’ series; keep us up to date on bike fit and aerodynamics and bring threads like this into front page content that rivals the content Ronan of EC is producing: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ambolic%5D_P8114691/

And maybe this is the sort of thing to share 1:1 in private, but I’ll share here because I just truly love this site: I’m glad a gravel race got some cash and there’s a gravel team doing fun things, but man, do I wish those resources were also going into the front page here.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

From a journalistic ethics perspective they'd need to cite all those sources, "as Sam Long said in his YouTube video..." and "as Jack Kelly reported in his interview with...", which basically becomes a report on what others have reported.

Fair use would mean that they couldn't quote or paraphrase lengthy portions of it.

But ya, if does seem like it would be straight forward enough to watch the race and report on that plus the tracker results mingled with the occasional social media garnered insights.

But it seems like there is some beef going on with the PTO being a bit exclusivist and the ST management taking that personally. The cynical side of me wonders if it's in part over an advertising dispute, but there's no evidence of that. I would say that the PTO ought to advertise on this site as they are spending a lot of money on social media ads to target people interested in triathlon. Why pay Facebook a chunk of change and deal with the errors and overpaying for reaching the wrong audience when you can reach many of them directly here? I guess they assume it's just owed to them by nature of their presence putting on races. Again all assumptions...

We had a PTO partnership in 2022. They elected not to renew.

The lack of renewal had nothing to do with our option not to cover their races with race reports in 2023 -- that was a broader editorial decision to pull back on most race reports. We still wound up writing / talking more about them on the podcast a bit, just not with a "typical" race coverage approach.

Long way of saying: it's not advertising, and it's not really about Eric's experience on site in Miami, either.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Ryan, I think whether there is a partnership or not, major pro races are industry news. It would be like a major cycling publication not report on Paris Roubaix or Flanders. You can't NOT report on major professional events in a sport.

I do get that a 1 page summary is less compelling than watching a 15 min recap video, or a full 4 hrs replay, but fundamentally a sport is not mainstream if there is no NEWS about a competiton. A bunch of age groupers running around in lycra is not news. Triathlon IS a competition and the headline for a competition is "who won". That's worth reporting on.

It is likely 10 races in the IM series, a bit less in T100 and half that number in ITU/World Triathlon that deserve a summary article on Mondays. But then those can be reshared and multiplied.

The lack of the T100 article has nothing to do with our passion for triathlon. It's something else entirely. I'm not gonna air all that laundry in the open.

To the rest of your post -- we've been a Gravel-adjacent site for a while, too. And we've dabbled in some pure run stuff while we're at it. So perhaps we're passionate about Multisport -- whatever that might means to you.

And FWIW, we are pursuing an EC style model. We've onboarded a bunch of new writers (David on pro coverage; Kristin Jenny on athlete interviews; Boots for shoe reviews; Ryan Rish on cycling / indoor reviews; Dr. Alex Harrison back in the fold on some nutrition work) and continue to push on adding others within reason. But we're also working on a heavy site architecture project in the back end. Those things aren't free, and we have budgets.

And, well, there's also that other thing that the EC model has: a paywall to help fund those things. We've been very hesitant to move away from our entirely free model. But it may very well be the best path forward for a robust ST.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

you have never hesitated to share unpopular and opinionated thoughts ;-)

i have some thoughts too and i, like you, am largely now a spectator to decision making here. but here's a story: the year was 2007 and i was told to take down the tents shielding the bike counters at kona from the sun. "what possible reason could you have for making us take down the tents we arranged for the bike counters?" because IM's volunteers didn't have tents, and it would make IM look bad to their volunteers to see that we had arranged tents for our volunteers when they hadn't. (they actually said this.) that is when i said, "i'm out." i conceived of and began the kona bike count in 1992 and ran it through 2007 and that's when i just got ultimately tired of being shat on by that company (in my efforts to count bikes). the count has been run by others since then, with the exception of my running it a year or two ago when the company running the count didn't bring enough staff to count.

things have changed a lot since then at IM. different race director. different owner. different CEO. an appreciation for the kona bike count as an asset rather than an imposition. but i bring up this story from 17 years ago to make this point: when you get shat on by a goods or services provider there is no obligation to cover that organization's product. i have no idea whether the critique of the PTO or any particular race org is valid; and whether that was the reason this race was not covered. it could be that slowtwitch just didn't have the assets to cover the race. just, in general, a race org doesn't have to pay the media, house the media, fly the media. IM does none of that but it facilitates the media's ability to cover the product. speaking for myself, i'm on my way to sea otter this morning and i'll be writing about whatever it is that is interesting, compelling for our readers, and there are enough products and companies there so that i can avoid companies that don't care to help facilitate the process. (and by "facilitate" i hope you'll note that the products i've been writing about lately whether bottlebrushes, toenail drills or carbon repair companies have zero to do with whether i or slowtwitch are getting paid.)

as to gravel, when i named this brand i had one and only one imperative: triathlon or any synonym of it could not be in the title. this is because i intended to create a portal populated by "endurance polymaths." i intend to write about bikepacking, fastpacking, anything that allows me - and you - to get from point A to point B under human powered locomotion, using the skills honed through multisport endeavors.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Best news I've heard all morning. Moving the forum over to something like Discourse would be INCREDIBLE. Hell, I'd donate just to make that happen.

Front page is first (as it, you know, pays the bills).

But we're researching options for the forum, too.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Yeah, but we get plenty of article about gravel bikes and races.

Hahaha!

As long as you are clear up front the direction you are going in.

There is a direction I would gladly contribute to and support.

The other, not so much. Recently I see more the latter.

Also remember EC does not have sponsors/partners.

Define the direction you'd support and "the one you are seeing more of."

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

And so another ST Mega-Post is born!

Hope this one does get relegated to LaVeNdEr

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Front page could have generic workouts. Monday Workout - 2500 yard Swim in am, 45 minute easy spin in pm, then in Tuesday is a new workout. Force people to click the site daily. You could also have Upcoming Races, (different links) Sprints, Olympics, 70.3s, 140.6s for clicks. It would be awesome to come here for a daily generic workout or "tomorrow's workout" and also see what races are coming up. Instead of articles on Oceanside you could interview Josh Amberger and see how the process went to get him in (thoughts with Javier and his family) and how Josh thought the race played out... or a different athlete from ...*... race.

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

I entered my first triathlon right out of college in 2005. It wasn’t long after that I discovered the goldmine of knowledge that was Slowtwitch. I poured over gear reviews, articles about bike fit and training, and the race reports. The forum was a way to listen, learn and occasionally interact with experts and pros.

I made a career out of my triathlon obsession that this site helped foster, and I work or have worked for many of the partner brands of Slowtwitch.

In 2022 finally achieved my Kona goal and I thought I’ll be stepping away from triathlon. But I quickly learned this is my passion and jumped back in the deep end and I am going to Celtman in June. I’m in my 40s now but my enthusiasm for the sport in bigger than ever. I owe so much of that to Slowtwitch.

I checked the front page on Sunday nonstop to see an update of who won Singapore. I thought it had to be broken or there was something wrong. For almost 20 years Slowtwitch has been my first stop to consume triathlon related content and I had to go elsewhere.

Some of this may not be possible (for example Javier may not want to talk about this publicly), but I like where you're going with this. Cover what people don't know, but you think would like to know about what's happening around the races, the races being the things people already know about (have seen live, etc).

Gravel and trail have little interest to me. I have a gravel bike, I run on trails, but Garmin Gravel worlds articles over PTO is not my preference

PTO is probably a more complex topic. But I don't see myself paying for something were the content I am interested is intentionally not covered and something I have little interest in (like eSports) is. That sounds like an editorial decision I wouldn't support.

I am not sure how a hybrid sponsor/paywall model looks. I find, and this is a personal opinion, many articles are showcases for your sponsors, which is fine. But I am not interested in paying for it. Example, the wahoo articles was really well done, but I would prefer a comparison across training systems rather than the focus on the one.

I am fine reading about a sponsors showcased product because it supports the site, but I don't want to pay for that.

The fact EC doesn't have sponsors is good for this (IMO). I offered EC to provide data to do some product comparisons (tri related). If it works out it will be really interesting. But I remember saying to myself, such an article on a site with sponsors could ruffle some feathers.

I scan most front page articles, I read few. I used to read more. Example : I liked Greg Kopecky's tech articles.
That may be a barometer of how much I would support it : how much do I read vs scan it.

Podcasts : if interesting guests was the norm, I'd listen and support. I have expressed that already. You guys prefer another format. That's cool. But I probably wouldn't pay for it.

I fully acknowledge I may not be the subscriber you are going after

I first appreciate you taking the time.

Second -- the T100 issue is complex. It has very little to do with Eric's experience in Miami that we talked about on the podcast. But until that item is resolved, we can't cover the event with any images in our stories, etc. And I really don't want to set the precedent of writing articles, of, say, where we use pictures of athletes from other events when they're racing at a T100 one -- that opens a separate can of worms. So we are on pause.

Third -- if Mr Kopecky were still in the industry, we'd have him. But I do have some comparison articles lined up, mostly as I select my gear for IMLP. Some N=1 testing on sports nutrition, run shoes, etc.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Why can all other sites, such as triathlete or tri247 publish pictures but ST can't ?

If one day you can't use them anymore, is it that big of a deal ? There are thousands of posts on ST with images that have disappeared.

I don't know man.....between last year's reasons, this year's reasons....comments made on your podcast, I wish we could understand what is really going on.

I'll DM you.

Trying to keep some of the sausage making in the kitchen.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

^^^^ Agreed. A changing and far different place than years ago and the direction (or lack of) is troubling.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Related to this a company I work with in semi-professional sports space was just flamed rather publicly by a photographer for using over 50 of their pictures across various social media posts without paying for them.

Turns out these were for pictures used over 5 years ago and not only was the photographer credited in the posts, but the photographer was indeed actually contracted and paid for them by the sports team that provided them to this company for promotional use. The photographer didn't know how the photos ended up there, and just assumed they were ripped from their own social media account and started flaming the company in question.

Offering to take the pictures down after years of allegedly infringing would be meaningless on a years old post. The photographer could at a minimum cause some grief with legal letters and threats being sent back and forth, and then there would be legal debate over if the original contract to one party allowed them to let someone else use the photos, etc. etc. So the company just offered to pay the photographer for the photos and safe the grief over an online photo-influencer freaking out.

Anyway, you may have heard the the phrase "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? Well, if Shakespeare knew photographers I assume he would have rendered it differently.

Replying to this thread, overall, not a specific post... I've been here a long time and - mostly - because of the community and their engagement in the forum. T100 is a big story in triathlon. Sure, there are many complaints about braodcast flaws and other issues - most of which I agree with - but, c'mon T100 is rearranging how professional triathlon operates (for better or worse) and has forced changes (IMO) in how the IM series of events operates (for better or worse). Even if T100 is a smoking crater in the ground in 8 / 20 / 32 months, right now? It is not A game changer - it is THE game changer.

That is why I am so disappointed by the lack of T100 Singapore coverage on the home page. Is ST focused on triathlon/ multisport? I think so. Is T100 among the most importnat features in the current triathlon landscape? I think so. ST must move heaven and earth and all obsticles to get T100 coverage on the front page. Full stop. Not doing so fails to serve the ST community. And those ST members head off to another source for T100 results and recaps. Is driving eyeballs to other sites the right move when there is now a thread on paywalls, etc.?

My hope is that we'll be able to get back to having some coverage of the official World Triathlon long course championship tour this year.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

That'll be the "World Series in Long Distance Triathlon" I guess, aka the T100 Triathlon World Series.
Don't sleep on the big 2024 World Triathlon Long Distance Championships in Townsville in August: at least the same newsworthy status as the E World Triathlon Championships in London, powered by Zwift:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/..._Beaugrand_8930.html.

Here's World Tri's articles reporting the races last weekend:
https://triathlon.org/...t_the_t100_singapore
https://triathlon.org/...0_title_in_singapore

Ryan: asking this in brief because I'm about to run to a meeting - so I'm aware it may sound critical but it isn't intended to be... I'm voting with my feet by being here:

I read the front page article about learning from Augusta. The way that article was written, and in particular its conclusion that the only way forward is Ironman, read (to me) like a hit-piece against the PTO. Combined with an absence of coverage of the PTO races, the appearance is that Slowtwitch has "chosen a side". I'm not saying that is the case - but I am saying that is the appearance.

So... is the intent to try to maintain a balance and remain series-agnostic going forward? Or does the site want to throw its weight behind one long-distance 'brand'? I'd be interested to hear the guiding philosophy - how ST navigates the balance between a business perspective and a 'custodian-of-the-sport' perspective. No wrong answers, just curious.

It's a perfectly fair question.

There's three separate issues:

1.) the official editorial position of Slowtwitch with regard to race series;
2.) why there isn't coverage of the race in Singapore;
3.) my opinion.

The official editorial position of Slowtwitch is that we are brand agnostic when it comes to race series, minus any specific partnership deal we may have with a particular series. (We do not currently have one. Our most recent one was with the PTO in 2022.) Our editorial plans for mainstream triathlon race coverage this year included WTCS events, the Olympics, SuperTri, T100, IRONMAN Pro Series events, and Challenge Roth -- all under the umbrella of how we were going to look at race event articles in 2023.

Now, you're probably asking, "how can he say that when they didn't cover Singapore?" We are, at the moment, unable to bring you coverage of T100 events on the front page. It involves two of our sacred cows when it comes to us being an independent publisher. Until there's a resolution we will not be able to write on the home page.

With regard to my opinion piece -- I think that the PTO would be best served by recognizing what they are good at (creating pro content, finding money) and recognizing their weaknesses (producing wholly-owned events). Again, going back to -- it's nuts that we're approaching six months until Lake Las Vegas and there's still zero indication that registration might open anytime soon. They're going to miss the window to get dollars in the door.

So why not take their strengths, use the best IM assets (as that's the brand name people associate with this stuff), be the media rights holder, and make your money that way? Not totally dissimilar from the arrangement between the FIA, Formula One Management, Liberty Media, etc. Might actually create the change they are looking for.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

did you notice you could sign up for Singapore 2025 during the mans race and all you had to do was to hold your phone against the screen to register. i had not seen that before for any race i have watched.

May I offer to kill two birds with one stone :

"We are, at the moment, unable to bring you coverage of T100 events on the front page".

Fine, don't cover on front page. Turn what was supposed to be the weekly podcast into race series review. No image copyright stuff, you are as free as many podcasts out there to express an opinion. Eric is never around, so replace him with guest hosts. David sounds like a candidate.

Bonus, you revive the podcast. I always thought front page articles and podcasts could generate forum discussion and vice versa

Do I get in trouble with PETA with the two birds analogy ?

Bonus points if you get StroBro as a guest host on the T100 event coverage.

Thank you for not just one laugh; but two!

I rarely go to the front page, I come to this forum when I come to ST.

That said we can discuss the race. Never even occurred to look for a ST race play by play or recap.

This is a triathlon forum and I don't need someone breaking it down for me.

Let's be honest, we the triathletes are the only ones watching these thing live, replayed or race highlights. T100 content is actually pretty good in terms of triathlon. I'd rather find a race thread and read through that and chime in if I feel the need to vs. reading a one person writen article.

That's my take, I think of ST more as a community vs a news source.

Open question to you and anyone else: would it had been better had PTO been able to purchase IM however many years ago that was that an offer was made and rejected? and, what are downsides and upsides if PTO hypothetically bought IM in the future?

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

It'd make things significantly worse, IMO, given the whole "we can ask you to remove any content that mentions us / contains an image from our events at any point in time whatsoever" and the "if you take pictures at our race, you must give us access to all of them and give us a license to them" stance in their media guides.

Hence the whole "fuck it, just let the PTO fund the Pro Series and find people to broadcast these races, and let IM handle the business of mass participation events" opinion I have. Or the PTO should get back to what I thought they were going to do, which is tack on PTO Tour events to existing races. They're not an event company. They should stop trying to be one.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Thanks for that insight, ugh.

It seems to me this strategy similarly falls under Slowman’s critique of IM for having a very narrow stakeholder view with regard to their expos:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...gal_Status_8897.html

With DeRue being an org behavior professor, I’ll be curious if he expands IM’s vision of their stakeholders

Stakeholder theory claims that a company wouldn't exist without stakeholders, presenting the world as an ecosystem of interconnected groups. In this ecosystem, businesses should consider all stakeholders' needs to ensure their long-term success.

It appears PTO could broaden their stakeholder view as well.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

My impression of the stakeholder model is it's used for PR purposes, particularly in publicly traded companies that try to appeal to grassroots/community investors or when the company relies heavily on public funding and good will.

Is that IM?

that impression is not accurate. It applies to any company for all strategic management decisions.

The “stakeholder model” is how CEOs justify taking more power away from shareholders and giving more power to CEOs.

Because who “represents” other stakeholders? The CEO of course knows what’s best for them.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

While that can be true, there is also plenty of evidence that recognizing a firm’s broader stakeholders presents opportunity to add additional value to the firm for shareholders. That was the point of Dan‘s article that I linked to above.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I hear ya... But it is really very simple and I really wish we could get this fixed... but they currently wont allow us to show up and be proper photo journalist and we 100% disagree with their media usage rights... So until one of those things changes not much we really will do..

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

I have to agree with you a little on this.. Which is one of the reason we aren't doing anything for that series..

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

Loved this article and tone of appreciation and also wanting to see improvement: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...St._George_8946.html

in line with Dan’s linked to article above about expos, Ryan’s comments on T100 media, and a need for a broader stakeholder approach to be taken so that value can be added for the participants, the industry and for fans via expos, media coverage and weekend atmosphere.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

You're assuming that the "Story" of them actually trying to buy ironman is even true..

Sending a email to a general inbox saying you would like to talk about purchasing ironman.. Isnt really an offer... its a email.. :)

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

Help us here, please (I have been back/up to look). What are you slightly agreeing with? Which is "that series"? [This is an example where clicking 'Quote' not 'Reply' will help comprension.
If the T100 World Long Distance Tour series, does this mean T100 San Francisco will be given the same treatment as T100 Singapore?

He's replying to what I wrote on page 1, post #4:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=8114496#p8114496

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blog

I broadly agree with you and plenty of 'outlets' produce good very fast reports, with great photos. @dcpinsson has his work cut out, but his 'quick takes' added value
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...hip_Titles_8943.html (excellent photos)
Quick Take #4: It looks like picking up points at IRONMAN races will dictate end of year Pro Series standings. Some thought that 70.3 specialists might be able to get by with really strong results at 70.3 Worlds. After looking at the standings after Texas, it’s clear that the full distance races provide a great opportunity to position yourself towards the top of the standings.
(Suggest arithmetic (back in October when the IM Pro Series was announced) might have presaged this conclusion.)
The recent ST reports do seem to make an deliberate effort to name check as many athletes as possible.

As for information you can't get from those reports, then it's worth scanning the generic thread here (eg ITU, T100, IM) or wait for ProTriNews (NB with its entertainment purposes caveat).

It's been my stance all along (and I know Dan, Ryan and the rest of the staff think the same way.. That unless we are going to say something honest, special and unique.. Dont say something at all.

So when it comes to race reports or anything its has to be our view of that... "THING" or "HAPPENINGS" we are watching... we simple dont "Repost" things.. So when it comes to race reports we are either present or watching live...If we are watching live we need photos (with unlimited editorial use rights) which the PTO doesnt offer... or we need to be present taking our own (Which the PTO currently doesnt allow us access to do anything special or even somewhat unique) So yea... add those points together and you have ZERO point in writing up an article that is worthy of the homepage.

This isnt just about race recaps it's the same for product reviews or anything we feel is important to write about.


If I got a call from a race director ( ANY RACE DIRECTOR ) where they said.. come to our race and cover it.. We will give you ZERO media access.. You can hang out with the fans.. I would tell them the say thing... #nothanks. If someone asked me to review a product and I have never had it in my hands.. #nothanks. We need to always stay true to the ST history of being honest, special. and unique.

So long answer to the "I Agree with you "

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

I think your approach is spot on. Don't report on something unless there is something to report on.

I mostly shake my head at race reports because I remember when ST (and a few other sites) would write an article about a race like 70.3 poconos 10 years ago. There was no video, there was no dynamic tracker or even a good working tracker, and no one onsite at the race. The articles were a conclusion of the overall results and time splits. I know that was a while ago but the articles haven't gotten much better since then. But I haven't read the most recent ones on st george, oceanside, texas, etc..... but from the comments in here, it sounds like some strides are being made which is great.

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blog

Just for fun I asked chatgpt to give me an engaging report of the race based on the results I just copy and pasted in

In the heart of Utah's rugged landscape, where towering red cliffs meet the endless azure sky, the 70.3 St George Half Ironman unfolded with breathtaking intensity. As athletes dove into the calm waters of Sand Hollow Reservoir, the stage was set for a battle of endurance and determination.

Leading the charge was the relentless force of Sam Long, an American powerhouse whose passion for speed knows no bounds. With each stroke, Long carved through the water with the precision of a seasoned warrior, setting the pace for the grueling journey ahead.

Hot on his heels was the Kiwi sensation, Ben Hamilton, whose unwavering focus propelled him through the swim and onto the unforgiving terrain of the bike course. As the sun blazed overhead, Hamilton unleashed a relentless assault on the hills, leaving spectators in awe of his raw power and determination.

But the race was far from over as Antony Costes of France surged ahead with a ferocity that sent shockwaves through the field. With each pedal stroke, Costes pushed the limits of human endurance, refusing to back down in the face of adversity.

As the athletes transitioned onto the run course, the battle for supremacy reached its climax. Canadian Jackson Laundry and South Africa's Nicholas Quenet emerged as dark horses, their legs devouring the miles with a hunger that could not be quenched.

In a nail-biting finish, it was Long who emerged victorious, crossing the finish line in a staggering time of 3 hours, 39 minutes, and 17 seconds. Hamilton followed closely behind, securing a well-deserved second place, while Costes rounded out the podium in third, proving that perseverance knows no boundaries.

As the sun dipped below the horizon and the cheers of the crowd faded into the night, one thing became clear: in the unforgiving crucible of St. George, only the strongest would prevail. And in the end, it was not just a race, but a testament to the indomitable spirit of the human soul.


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I like how Sam carved through the water and set the pace on the swim and Hamilton was nail biting close at 7+ minutes behind. Truth be told, it's probably just as accurate as standard AP reporting.

You have to get AI to describe Knibb’s toilet efficiency at Lahti! You’ll prompt it best!

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Thanks for coming in here and sharing your position overall. I like the concept of "we're not reporting/talking about it, unless we can touch/feel/experience the thing live".

I think as readers that is what we want because we can't get an authentic view on anything unless the person reporting on it was the first hand view/interpretor of the matter at hand.

Kudos, on this position as it is honest and transparent and overall while that is going to be more work, it is going to stand out in the overall market.

Not sure I agree with this take. I've been following with great interest the Giro and many of the sources are not there but find very interesting takes and analysis from afar, as many of us do. One does NOT have to be on location to get a feel and often the best take is from afar. Viewing is far more accurate as one has various feeds to view (Team car, overhead drone shots, on the ground reporting) so the old if one is not there it's not news is so far behind the times. EscapeCollective does an amazing job and often is not on the ground. REAL reporters have their sources and do the proper legwork to get the story that often is missed "on the ground". It seems here that a "junket" is necessary to get the story and that's simply not the case. ST would be wise to follow the lead of EC and go beyond to find the interesting stories. Frankly, a "view from the stands" might be a very interesting and unique vantage that more of us can relate to.

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Kiwami Racing Team

One does NOT have to be on location to get a feel and often the best take is from afar.//

I have to say thank goodness we have this forum for our race coverages and debates. I think in the grand scheme of triathlon racing, there is more detailed, behind the scenes, and smart up to date information from some of the most knowledgeable folks in the sport printed here. You are right in that watching any or all of the live feeds are great, but this is the place where we dissect all that information, make sense of things we see, and then debate them in real time as to their meanings. For me at least, I dont need a front page article after the fact of something I have seen and talked about extensively already.. Unless of course there is some new information, or a different take from what I saw.


If the PTO doesnt want to play, I suppose they think they have good reason. Just doesnt seem prudent to shut out what little endemic media we do have, just make you look petty. Who knows, maybe they are working a Netflix deal and signed away exclusivity, or think they will someday..

True, but based on the podcast after the event it seems ST was the one being petty in regards to being shunned. Avoiding the fact the PTO exists in a triathlon forum is simply not the way to go about things. Find a different tactic, do interviews with one's contacts that raced, find a way to make a story instead of sticking one's head in the sand. It seems a long way from the attitude of renting a helicopter and pissing off John Duke to get the goods.

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Kiwami Racing Team

We're not avoiding the PTO in the forum.

We're not giving them front-page coverage.

That's because a.) we can't cover their events well when we are *on site* due to the situations Eric experienced in Miami, and b.) their media credentialing in order for us to get file photos from them includes provisions that allows them to demand we remove content from the site (which we do not grant *anyone*), and c.) if we *are* on site, those same credentials say that we must give an ownership interest in those photos to the PTO.

So until those three things get solved -- well, we can do an excellent job covering races remotely. We've done so for a long time. We'll continue to do so -- but only if we can actually somehow *experience* them (which, generally means, there needs to be a live broadcast for us to be able to see what is taking place).

Also note Eric's piece from St. George -- media access isn't just a PTO problem.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

 
Also note Eric's piece from St. George -- media access isn't just a PTO problem.


are you going to stop reporting from ironman races as well.

Nope.

Because IM doesn't try to claim they have a right to remove content from our site.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

So you think PTO would be actually able to make you remove a comment?
Is there any case where they have tried with another outlet and did they succeed?

It's the fact that they even would attempt to claim it that's problematic. I'm not interested in a legal battle.

There are exactly four people on Earth who have content removal rights to the front-page: Eric, Dan, Jordan, and myself.

It's the same reason why partners don't get to see content before we publish it. And partners don't get edit rights, either.

Here's some of the language that we simply can't agree to:


So, if Eric's on site, *we* don't own the content we shoot. The PTO does.


So, if Eric's on site, we must provide the PTO with all the photos/videos we take -- and potentially without any form of compensation for it.



Simply not going to happen.

Both Eric and I have forwarded these concerns to the PTO, and we've not received a response. So until we can resolve these, we won't cover the PTO Tour on the front page. You might get me talking about it in the forum, and we won't stop anybody from talking about it in the forum, but it won't be front-page coverage.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

And who's the one losing out? Not PTO.

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Kiwami Racing Team

I do 100 percent see where you are comming from , at the end of the days the press should be free
To take the pics they want .

At the same time I believe all the pics that are taken at PTO events can be used by press sponsors etc free off charge .
You did not reply my question are you aware of a single case where PTO asked an outlet to remove a pic .
And I would say that would seriously backlash on them as you would assume all the other outlets would stand on the side on the affect media outlets if it was an unfair request.
Again I see your issue 100 percent
But unless you can show me a case where your issues have happend I think you make the problem bigger than it is.

At the end of the day most outlets can't afford to go to races so I would assume for those it works well to use image provided by PTO.
Would I be wrong in this assumption.

At the end of the day I have not heard from another outlet complaining about PTO about pic rights
Or is there other outlets ?

IE if you are the only one that has issues than maybe it's you who are overreacting, if there is more outlets that have the same issue then maybe it's them ....

Am I aware of an outlet being forced to remove content yet?
No. But based on our own prior interactions behind the scenes, of which I don't need to air all the laundry about, we do not doubt the PTO would try to do

Are there other outlets who have had issues?
Yep. A lot of other name brand publications in this space.

We're just the only ones, at the moment, willing to sacrifice some front-page page views in the interest of sticking to our principles as independent journalists. But there are others who have indicated that they might be doing the same in the near future.

And, to be clear, it's not just pictures. Per their own language it's any "content" that they wish to have removal / edit rights on.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Cheers for that. And if it's more than a few outlets my respect for sticking to your guns.

Sounds to me you need to form a Tri news union .....
For free Tri journalism
TNO

That's unintelligible gibberish, by the way. This is not professional legalese. This is written by a moron who was trying to sound smart.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I feel like this is like the disclaimer the NFL plays on it's televised games "This telecast is copyrighted by the NFL for the private use of our audience. Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent is prohibited."


What are they going to do? DMCA everyone who watched the game and typed up a summary on their social media?

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

It's actually pretty bold of a requirement to get someone to sign-off on. Could you interpret that the PTO could ask ST to remove the story about Findlay and Long winning St. George on the front page because they are PTO athletes? Yes. Could you also interpret it to mean PTO could require outlets to not post about future positive drug tests? Yes. What about a hypothetical incident at a future AG PTO race that causes the PTO to look bad? Anything from say, using a diet drink as on course nutrition (excuse me, hydration), to a car accident or death in the swim? PTO could tell the site to pull info "for now" until the dust settles and the issue is mostly memory holed.

That's the way media manipulation works in the modern world. Nice that someone is calling them out on it.

Maybe but triathlon is pretty small & ST is a big media player. Like what's said above it gives PTO a lot of control that nobody else is requiring. As much as I want triathlon to be compared to the NFL, they're not the same. People go to a handful of places for their tri news.

And who's the one losing out? Not PTO. //

Actually in this little skirmish I believe it is the PTO losing out. Certainly it is not ST or its viewers. Front page after their done race coverages are not all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. The forum chatter about it can be if it is compelling. I know for me at least, if I watch a race, I almost never read the article days later about it. I will however keep checking the thread on it for updates and more color to what I did watch..


This whole thing looks bad for the PTO to me, and I bet a lot more folks that frequent this forum too. So how are they not losing out, when it is hearts and minds they are after in the early stages of their existence?

Truthfully it seems no one goes to the front page anyway.....

After the latest front page article with the whining about poor media treatment from Ironman, it seems they're running out of race organizations coddling them. That said, I'm sure you are right that most go to the threads here instead of the front page. Funny but I know some amazing journalists and photographers who were told, "don't come back until you have the goods." There surely must be stories that don't simply regurgitate race details, but find an angle..... maybe from the standpoint of being a fan, or the cop who stops traffic.....anything that creativity prods.....

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Kiwami Racing Team

This is what you MAY think because every company executive or every politician THINKS they are bigger than the collective of the media....until they are not.

The reason journalism is the 4th estate in democratic society is it keeps people in positions of power accountable. Typically politicians, but also CEOs/Executives in any powerful company. These clauses tabled by PTO in exchange of access are not cool by any means.

Often executives think they are above the media and can write their own narrative using their own channels. But eventually everyone figures that out for what that marketing channel truly is. It's not news, it is marketing. And I totally get the angle of marketing (I personally run a small tech company). But CEOs need the media to be the amplifier or their good news as it gives their good news validity, but also call them out when the news is not so good, because in doing so, when the same media outlet amplies the good news that amplification has a 10-100x effect compared to when you market it via your own channels.

So putting arbitrary of onerous requirements on media who cover you, is going to bite you eventually. It may not bite you now, but it may later because if you have a disaster and then when the media you alienated chooses to cover your disaster, you have zero relationship with that outlet to be less "sharp and pointy".

You gotta play the media game. You just have to in free enterprise. If you try to control the media you are digging your grave because eventually the media will contol you. Not ST on its own, but the collective who stood for free independent journalism, will call you out when the time comes that you deserve to be called out (and every company eventually has their version of the Boeing door blowing off the side of the airplane).

Moral of the story, build your relationships with the media. Be forthcoming, expect them to call you out on our mistakes, hope that they amplify your good news...rinse-repeat. But the day you screw up, and the media nails your coffin shut, don't complain, because you alienated the 4th estate to your peril.

Consider this reply an endorsement of your post.

Thanks for getting it.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Well written, Dev!

When I wrote above about the need to consider the value a broader stakeholder perspective adds to a firm, this is it. It’s not mere PR. It’s not a guise to strip shareholders of value. It’s long term strategic thinking that benefits shareholders and stakeholders.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

Uh, who do they think they are. The NFL doesn't own photos of credentialed media. If they want yours they can pay you.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.