I have to agree with you a little on this.. Which is one of the reason we aren't doing anything for that series..

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

Loved this article and tone of appreciation and also wanting to see improvement: https://www.slowtwitch.com/...St._George_8946.html

in line with Dan’s linked to article above about expos, Ryan’s comments on T100 media, and a need for a broader stakeholder approach to be taken so that value can be added for the participants, the industry and for fans via expos, media coverage and weekend atmosphere.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

You're assuming that the "Story" of them actually trying to buy ironman is even true..

Sending a email to a general inbox saying you would like to talk about purchasing ironman.. Isnt really an offer... its a email.. :)

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

Help us here, please (I have been back/up to look). What are you slightly agreeing with? Which is "that series"? [This is an example where clicking 'Quote' not 'Reply' will help comprension.
If the T100 World Long Distance Tour series, does this mean T100 San Francisco will be given the same treatment as T100 Singapore?

He's replying to what I wrote on page 1, post #4:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=8114496#p8114496

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blog

I broadly agree with you and plenty of 'outlets' produce good very fast reports, with great photos. @dcpinsson has his work cut out, but his 'quick takes' added value
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...hip_Titles_8943.html (excellent photos)
Quick Take #4: It looks like picking up points at IRONMAN races will dictate end of year Pro Series standings. Some thought that 70.3 specialists might be able to get by with really strong results at 70.3 Worlds. After looking at the standings after Texas, it’s clear that the full distance races provide a great opportunity to position yourself towards the top of the standings.
(Suggest arithmetic (back in October when the IM Pro Series was announced) might have presaged this conclusion.)
The recent ST reports do seem to make an deliberate effort to name check as many athletes as possible.

As for information you can't get from those reports, then it's worth scanning the generic thread here (eg ITU, T100, IM) or wait for ProTriNews (NB with its entertainment purposes caveat).

It's been my stance all along (and I know Dan, Ryan and the rest of the staff think the same way.. That unless we are going to say something honest, special and unique.. Dont say something at all.

So when it comes to race reports or anything its has to be our view of that... "THING" or "HAPPENINGS" we are watching... we simple dont "Repost" things.. So when it comes to race reports we are either present or watching live...If we are watching live we need photos (with unlimited editorial use rights) which the PTO doesnt offer... or we need to be present taking our own (Which the PTO currently doesnt allow us access to do anything special or even somewhat unique) So yea... add those points together and you have ZERO point in writing up an article that is worthy of the homepage.

This isnt just about race recaps it's the same for product reviews or anything we feel is important to write about.


If I got a call from a race director ( ANY RACE DIRECTOR ) where they said.. come to our race and cover it.. We will give you ZERO media access.. You can hang out with the fans.. I would tell them the say thing... #nothanks. If someone asked me to review a product and I have never had it in my hands.. #nothanks. We need to always stay true to the ST history of being honest, special. and unique.

So long answer to the "I Agree with you "

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E-DUB
Chief Janitor @Slowtwitch
Life is short. Dont be mad all the time.

I think your approach is spot on. Don't report on something unless there is something to report on.

I mostly shake my head at race reports because I remember when ST (and a few other sites) would write an article about a race like 70.3 poconos 10 years ago. There was no video, there was no dynamic tracker or even a good working tracker, and no one onsite at the race. The articles were a conclusion of the overall results and time splits. I know that was a while ago but the articles haven't gotten much better since then. But I haven't read the most recent ones on st george, oceanside, texas, etc..... but from the comments in here, it sounds like some strides are being made which is great.

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blog

Just for fun I asked chatgpt to give me an engaging report of the race based on the results I just copy and pasted in

In the heart of Utah's rugged landscape, where towering red cliffs meet the endless azure sky, the 70.3 St George Half Ironman unfolded with breathtaking intensity. As athletes dove into the calm waters of Sand Hollow Reservoir, the stage was set for a battle of endurance and determination.

Leading the charge was the relentless force of Sam Long, an American powerhouse whose passion for speed knows no bounds. With each stroke, Long carved through the water with the precision of a seasoned warrior, setting the pace for the grueling journey ahead.

Hot on his heels was the Kiwi sensation, Ben Hamilton, whose unwavering focus propelled him through the swim and onto the unforgiving terrain of the bike course. As the sun blazed overhead, Hamilton unleashed a relentless assault on the hills, leaving spectators in awe of his raw power and determination.

But the race was far from over as Antony Costes of France surged ahead with a ferocity that sent shockwaves through the field. With each pedal stroke, Costes pushed the limits of human endurance, refusing to back down in the face of adversity.

As the athletes transitioned onto the run course, the battle for supremacy reached its climax. Canadian Jackson Laundry and South Africa's Nicholas Quenet emerged as dark horses, their legs devouring the miles with a hunger that could not be quenched.

In a nail-biting finish, it was Long who emerged victorious, crossing the finish line in a staggering time of 3 hours, 39 minutes, and 17 seconds. Hamilton followed closely behind, securing a well-deserved second place, while Costes rounded out the podium in third, proving that perseverance knows no boundaries.

As the sun dipped below the horizon and the cheers of the crowd faded into the night, one thing became clear: in the unforgiving crucible of St. George, only the strongest would prevail. And in the end, it was not just a race, but a testament to the indomitable spirit of the human soul.


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I like how Sam carved through the water and set the pace on the swim and Hamilton was nail biting close at 7+ minutes behind. Truth be told, it's probably just as accurate as standard AP reporting.

You have to get AI to describe Knibb’s toilet efficiency at Lahti! You’ll prompt it best!

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Thanks for coming in here and sharing your position overall. I like the concept of "we're not reporting/talking about it, unless we can touch/feel/experience the thing live".

I think as readers that is what we want because we can't get an authentic view on anything unless the person reporting on it was the first hand view/interpretor of the matter at hand.

Kudos, on this position as it is honest and transparent and overall while that is going to be more work, it is going to stand out in the overall market.

Not sure I agree with this take. I've been following with great interest the Giro and many of the sources are not there but find very interesting takes and analysis from afar, as many of us do. One does NOT have to be on location to get a feel and often the best take is from afar. Viewing is far more accurate as one has various feeds to view (Team car, overhead drone shots, on the ground reporting) so the old if one is not there it's not news is so far behind the times. EscapeCollective does an amazing job and often is not on the ground. REAL reporters have their sources and do the proper legwork to get the story that often is missed "on the ground". It seems here that a "junket" is necessary to get the story and that's simply not the case. ST would be wise to follow the lead of EC and go beyond to find the interesting stories. Frankly, a "view from the stands" might be a very interesting and unique vantage that more of us can relate to.

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Kiwami Racing Team

One does NOT have to be on location to get a feel and often the best take is from afar.//

I have to say thank goodness we have this forum for our race coverages and debates. I think in the grand scheme of triathlon racing, there is more detailed, behind the scenes, and smart up to date information from some of the most knowledgeable folks in the sport printed here. You are right in that watching any or all of the live feeds are great, but this is the place where we dissect all that information, make sense of things we see, and then debate them in real time as to their meanings. For me at least, I dont need a front page article after the fact of something I have seen and talked about extensively already.. Unless of course there is some new information, or a different take from what I saw.


If the PTO doesnt want to play, I suppose they think they have good reason. Just doesnt seem prudent to shut out what little endemic media we do have, just make you look petty. Who knows, maybe they are working a Netflix deal and signed away exclusivity, or think they will someday..

True, but based on the podcast after the event it seems ST was the one being petty in regards to being shunned. Avoiding the fact the PTO exists in a triathlon forum is simply not the way to go about things. Find a different tactic, do interviews with one's contacts that raced, find a way to make a story instead of sticking one's head in the sand. It seems a long way from the attitude of renting a helicopter and pissing off John Duke to get the goods.

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Kiwami Racing Team

We're not avoiding the PTO in the forum.

We're not giving them front-page coverage.

That's because a.) we can't cover their events well when we are *on site* due to the situations Eric experienced in Miami, and b.) their media credentialing in order for us to get file photos from them includes provisions that allows them to demand we remove content from the site (which we do not grant *anyone*), and c.) if we *are* on site, those same credentials say that we must give an ownership interest in those photos to the PTO.

So until those three things get solved -- well, we can do an excellent job covering races remotely. We've done so for a long time. We'll continue to do so -- but only if we can actually somehow *experience* them (which, generally means, there needs to be a live broadcast for us to be able to see what is taking place).

Also note Eric's piece from St. George -- media access isn't just a PTO problem.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

 
Also note Eric's piece from St. George -- media access isn't just a PTO problem.


are you going to stop reporting from ironman races as well.

Nope.

Because IM doesn't try to claim they have a right to remove content from our site.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

So you think PTO would be actually able to make you remove a comment?
Is there any case where they have tried with another outlet and did they succeed?

It's the fact that they even would attempt to claim it that's problematic. I'm not interested in a legal battle.

There are exactly four people on Earth who have content removal rights to the front-page: Eric, Dan, Jordan, and myself.

It's the same reason why partners don't get to see content before we publish it. And partners don't get edit rights, either.

Here's some of the language that we simply can't agree to:


So, if Eric's on site, *we* don't own the content we shoot. The PTO does.


So, if Eric's on site, we must provide the PTO with all the photos/videos we take -- and potentially without any form of compensation for it.



Simply not going to happen.

Both Eric and I have forwarded these concerns to the PTO, and we've not received a response. So until we can resolve these, we won't cover the PTO Tour on the front page. You might get me talking about it in the forum, and we won't stop anybody from talking about it in the forum, but it won't be front-page coverage.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

And who's the one losing out? Not PTO.

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Kiwami Racing Team

I do 100 percent see where you are comming from , at the end of the days the press should be free
To take the pics they want .

At the same time I believe all the pics that are taken at PTO events can be used by press sponsors etc free off charge .
You did not reply my question are you aware of a single case where PTO asked an outlet to remove a pic .
And I would say that would seriously backlash on them as you would assume all the other outlets would stand on the side on the affect media outlets if it was an unfair request.
Again I see your issue 100 percent
But unless you can show me a case where your issues have happend I think you make the problem bigger than it is.

At the end of the day most outlets can't afford to go to races so I would assume for those it works well to use image provided by PTO.
Would I be wrong in this assumption.

At the end of the day I have not heard from another outlet complaining about PTO about pic rights
Or is there other outlets ?

IE if you are the only one that has issues than maybe it's you who are overreacting, if there is more outlets that have the same issue then maybe it's them ....

Am I aware of an outlet being forced to remove content yet?
No. But based on our own prior interactions behind the scenes, of which I don't need to air all the laundry about, we do not doubt the PTO would try to do

Are there other outlets who have had issues?
Yep. A lot of other name brand publications in this space.

We're just the only ones, at the moment, willing to sacrifice some front-page page views in the interest of sticking to our principles as independent journalists. But there are others who have indicated that they might be doing the same in the near future.

And, to be clear, it's not just pictures. Per their own language it's any "content" that they wish to have removal / edit rights on.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Cheers for that. And if it's more than a few outlets my respect for sticking to your guns.

Sounds to me you need to form a Tri news union .....
For free Tri journalism
TNO

That's unintelligible gibberish, by the way. This is not professional legalese. This is written by a moron who was trying to sound smart.

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

I feel like this is like the disclaimer the NFL plays on it's televised games "This telecast is copyrighted by the NFL for the private use of our audience. Any other use of this telecast or any pictures, descriptions, or accounts of the game without the NFL's consent is prohibited."


What are they going to do? DMCA everyone who watched the game and typed up a summary on their social media?

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
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