“It is a bit disingenous for the mother to say I can make all of the recreational decisions when part of that decision potentially has an impact on his time with the children.”

It doesn’t affect his time with them if he isn’t required to attend or allow them to attend. It has happened zero times, the kids ask, he says no, that’s how it has gone historically.

We have decided that all practices and half of all games is better than no sports at all, which is his default position. Are you saying the court would likely agree that none is better if they cannot agree?

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

What does he do that he is retired and brings in $180K?????

IMO - You need to stay out of it and let the attorney handle it. You are much too close/invested.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

No I am not saying that. But it could be argued that in enrolling the children in the sports without consulting him or getting his agreement that the mother knew that the children would likely miss out on the sports on ‘his weekends’ and that this could disappoint the children if they are unable to compete on his weekends. Which is not a good thing for the children.

He may not be required to attend the sports or take them to their games/sports, but the children have been placed in a position where they are having time with their father played off against being involved in sports they presumably enjoy. All of which may have been avoided had there been consultation of some sort.

I think there are a couple of people (like yourself) who must not have taken part in any of the previous posting Sphere has done regarding this situation and the father in question. Obviously, we're only getting Sphere's side of the story, but given that understanding, it doesn't seem likely that consultation or accommodation or discussion or any other reasonable measure would resulted in a significant difference in the situation. Taking Sphere's accounts at face value, the issue isn't prior coordination. It's the father's desire to control the mother, his anger at having been caught out for his misbehavior, his resentment of the mother and basically anything she does, and his general intent to just consistently be a dick.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

By the way, it does sound like he would be/is difficult to deal with, so I can understand why your wife/partner may have made the decisions she did.

And that’s the problem with a lot of family court cases over parenting issues. People involved in family court are often terrible at communicating with each other for whatever reason.

Yes, potentially and I acknowledge that I haven’t closely read most of this thread in my first post on this thread. Only issue I was addressing was that of enrolling children in sports when game day falls on a day father is meant to have them when he lives 3 hours away and why that may make him upset, which could in turn lead to his other actions.

Parallel parenting is the way if he’s not agreeable. I would imagine the court would want to stay out of getting into the minutia of what activities the kids do. You don’t want the court getting into it either.

Agreed. Taking his claims at face value, he’s dealing with someone who can’t be reasoned with. When dealing with someone like this in family court, you have to be methodical and know the process. Keep emotion out of it because your judge deals with high conflict divorces all day every day. A good attorney who knows how to deal with this is key. Because, the other party will keep litigating until either they or you run out of money.

The facts seem to on his wife’s side. Namely, dad voluntarily moved 3 hours away and wanted overall minimal contact with the kids while at the same time owning a house in the same town.

Based on his extensive posting history, there is nothing to suggest sphere’s version of events has been willingly embellished. But it’s not uncommon for people to truly believe their version of events as factual when this may not necessarily be the case. Therefore we need to be careful not to become an echo chamber as it does them few favours.

Dad could be in another forum explaining how his ex signed up the kids to sport without telling him and then made him look like the bad guy when he said he wasn’t taking them. Taking it on face value mum could be seen as vindictive, setting him up to look bad.

The kids have a right to play sport when with mum. Dad has a right to explore his own fun with the kids in his time. There are at least two ways this could have played out.

1 - mum tells dad that son is keen to play sport and she is prepared to sign him up on the condition that son accepts he can only attend when at home. When with dad he cannot play, because that’s dad’s time. Son has agreed to that, therefore that is what is happening. Dad might try and be vindictive by stealing some of mums glory and taking son every other week. Mum foots the bill. Dad surprises son and looks like the good guy. Win win for son.

2 - (accepting it was 100% sons choice) son tells mum they want to play sport. Mum thinks it’s great for health and signs him up. She and sphere support the hell out of him. Son asks about next weekend. Mum says ‘ask your dad’ or does it herself then tells son bad news. If it wasn’t discussed upfront with son then I feel like that does throw dad under the bus a bit.

Marriage breakdowns bring out the worst in many. Kids often get caught up in spiteful back and forth. That in itself does not make the parents terrible people or indicate they don’t love their children. Those without kids or those fortunate to have avoided a split may not see how that is possible.

Separate point - it’s possible that renting out home 1 and buying home 2 further away can be a better financial decision. Family’s move all the time for better jobs, taking kids away from their friends or hobbies.

In my 4 years of dealing with him I have never once seen him make a concession or do something that wasn't driven entirely by self interest, even though his bad behavior is the entire reason for the divorce and dynamics today. It's the first time I've had to deal with someone like this and it's been an eye opening experience.



All communication has been via email. As I mentioned, we could probably submit a printed binder of the dialogue and never have to speak a word in court. The judge will make of it what they will.


Dad moved full time to his Pentagon City apartment, 2.5h from the family home, where he worked and continued his extramarital dating operation, late 2019 when she kicked him out for the last time. The divorce and settlement agreement happened while he lived there. Sometime within the next year and a half he moved further away, to the north end of the Beltway, when he moved in with his new wife and her daughter. So the distance from the kids increased after the divorce was finalized. He cited this increased distance in his appeal to have mom bear more responsibility for bringing the kids to him.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

The way it has played out is this: older two kids expressed desire to play sports with their friends (basketball, volleyball, soccer) when the seasons were gearing up. Mom said be sure you want to play what I sign you up for, kids agreed. Mom did not consult with bio father because she isn't obligated to and it wouldn't change anything if she did: he would either show up for them, or not. He has not. It is better to have them playing all of practices and half of games than not at all. It was not an attempt to force him to be in the area (trust me that is not on her list of wants) or to make him look bad. She and I both played sports as kids and we understand how beneficial that can be in a kid's life. When she has communicated to him at the kids request that they would like to participate in a game, she simply relays their message or tells the kids they need to talk to him about it if it's important to them. She has never criticized him or talked bad to the kids about him as a result. It is his choice to make. He is obligated to pick them up here, and he owns a home in town, so it isn't a major stretch to think he could spend the night here, take them to the game, then head home to Maryland after. It's not ideal for him, but nothing about moving 3h from your kids in a divorce is ideal. You make choices and figure out how to navigate the consequences.

Regarding the bolded above, my wife and I share the perspective that children are not objects or possessions. Their time is not "our time" or "his time," it is their time and it is our responsibility to act in their best interests at all times. I understand the need to balance the interest of the children and the rights of the father, but when the father makes decisions that severely impact the interests of the children, I think it's reasonable for there to be some sacrifices required of that father. How much and how often is, at this point, up to the courts, I guess.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Thanks for weighing in. I addressed the move timeline in a recent post above.

He proposed coparenting counseling last year, as a direct result of him not getting what he wanted in terms of extra time with the kids when they had activities planned here (she offered to let them say with him here in the area, at his home; he ignored the offer as it wasn't on his terms). The reasons for his requesting counseling was a laundry list of his personal grievances and it was clear that he didn't want to improve communication but rather push her to agree to his terms. She replied that she would not sit in counseling with him, and cited the numerous previous marriage counseling sessions in which he lied repeatedly to the counselors and her (which she discovered after the fact) and said that two people cannot benefit from counseling if it's not entered into in good faith, and he has never, despite ample opportunity, dealt with her in good faith or honestly. So why subject herself to reliving that trauma. They agreed on a settlement, signed by a judge, and has lived up to it 100%. She should not be required to do more than that with someone who can't be trusted.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I’m guessing the judge lost his 💩 when he heard this? That’s a bold move,Cotton. Most Father’s Rights forums would have admonished him heavily to move back to where the kids live then come back and talk to us.

Didn't expect to see Windy being this person...

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

“I’m guessing the judge lost his 💩 when he heard this? “

We will find out soon enough. I’m amazed that his lawyers even put this stuff before a judge to be quite honest. You would think a lawyer with any experience in this area would understand that the father moving away after the settlement agreement would not bode well for him, and it certainly wouldnt be viewed as compelling evidence to force the mother to do more of the driving.

On top of that, he was required by court order to notify the mother if he intended to move, which he did not.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

This is the section confirming his relocation following settlement.




Their oldest was actually 7. Fine attention to detail.

This is the letter her employer has provided for the court:

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I thought you said he was renting it out.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

His primary residence in Maryland is a rental where he lives with his wife and stepdaughter (whose father lives in NJ). His house 4 miles from here is one he purchased last year and is rented out via AirBNB. He stays there with the kids on rare occasions when he has personal social events happening (some of his family lives here in the area as well).

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Idk I’m having a real hard time here accepting that the kids must miss out on half of ANYTHING they want to do simply because one of the parents doesn’t want to spend their time doing that on the weekend.

A couple of broadly accepted norms here:

1. Kids have one job: to be kids. And that includes participating in and enjoying sports or other hobbies/activities.

2. Participation in these thing regularly is good/improtant for the kids.

3. Sports or other activities are often held multiple times a week and on the weekends. I don’t care if you’re married, separated, or divorced. You had a kid then you should accept that should your kids choose to participate or express interest in these things with a normal expected time commitment then so be it.

If one parent chose to move 3 hours away and 90 min of sport commitment on “your weekend” is enough to ruin your weekend then you don’t deserve to have an equal right there. That parent chose a living situation that allowed 90 min to disrupt their entire weekend.

That parent has to either accept it and participate, accept it and not participate, or make other arrangements to make up for those weekend where they are not willing to have the child and allow the child to participate in their desired age-appropriate activity.

That whole situation is ridiculous because it’s not sports. Replace sports with any acceptable and necessary kids function.

This should be about the kid, not the parent and their schedule.

This is my perspective exactly. And it isn’t theoretical for me, it’s how I approach my job as divorced father of two boys who live primarily with their mother. I never make it about my preferences or schedule and when there’s a schedule event that I cannot accommodate I work it out with their mother and they almost always stay with her for the weekend and we make it up later.

It’s hard but I don’t see any other fair way to handle it.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I see. Thank you for the explanation.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

If the judge had the balls they would laugh at him in court and tell him to suck it up and that only a selfish shit parent would force their young child to miss half of their activities bc the parent was too inconvenienced. What a victory for kids that would be.

Your points 1 and 2 are correct.

Your point 3 is opinion, made from the (assumed) privileged position of not having gone through divorce with kids and further, being the one who doesn’t get much time with them.

We can cast judgement all we like, but every case is different and one can’t possibly understand the mindset of individuals until we’ve truly walked in their shoes.

Yes it would be nice for the kid if dad curtailed to every whim and desire. It would also be nice for dad if he got to introduce his own activities to the child. Will the relationship be better if dad is in a happier place or the child? Who knows. But I think the scars are deeper in the parents. Kids are more resilient.

I think I’ve made my point so will step back.

This.

I’ve been pretty hard on Sphere in this thread because his take is the cliche’d take where dad is the absent father who abandons the kids for the new wife - it’s easy to say Sphere is right, dad is wrong. Most situations are not that simple and disagreements on activities is very common. It does not take into account how easy it for the custodial parent to manipulate the kids and emotionally abuse the non custodial parent by using the kids as the bat to browbeat the other parent.

In my situation, my ex moved 90 miles away to another state, enrolled the kids in a new school without my knowledge, the court, or the old school’s knowledge, and blew up 3 years of shared 50/50 custody. As soon as I found out, I got an injunction filed, sent it to the new school, and she was stuck schlepping the kids 90 miles each way to the old school for two months until we got a court date.

When the kids were with her during this time, my ex would have them call me and say how they wanted to do activities at mom’s place, go to school there, etc. They understandably hated the drive. I was berated daily by her friends and family members about “how could I do this to the kids, I was selfish and trying to control my ex”.

In the decision, my ex was found in contempt for interfering with my custodial rights, found to have attempted to manipulate the court by filing false child abuse charges against me, found to have coached the kids in their testimony. She also somehow convinced the judge that her affair partner DID NOT beat the crap out of her despite me presenting to the court the police report and the hand written PFA that she filed but later dropped the charges.

The knock against me? I had been out of work for six months, found a job an hour away, but had to hire a nanny to do pick up and drop off at school. That was the rationale for the judge to award her primary residency to her when we went to court. The decision was crazy. But, that is family court for you.

This set off 6 years of her ALWAYS trying to set up activities for the kids on my weekends at her place. She wanted them to go fox hunting every weekend with her. She said I can follow along on my mountain bike while she and her fiancée rode with the kids. It would be what’s best for the kids! Ummmm, no. That’s making ME be a spectator for an activity you do with the kids on MY TIME.

I had the kids 3/4 weekends every month, and the whole summer. I signed my son up for in house ice hockey, my daughter bounced around a bit between karate, clarinet, and gymnastics. They had a whole summer of different summer camps. Usually around May of every year, one of the kids would develop some mysterious illness which would require therapy 2-3x’s a week at mom’s house during the summer. I told her to get bent. I’d take the kids to specialist for a second opinion, always got a clean bill of health, and went on with my summer despite constant haranguing from the ex that I was slowly killing the kids by not doing what she wanted.

This madness finally ended in 2018 when the affair partner beat the crap out of my son and his mom. He pled guilty to the charges. Mom still let the guy live with her. Of course I took her to court and I was awarded sole legal custody, and mom could only see the kids if she didn’t take them to her house.

“I’ve been pretty hard on Sphere in this thread because his take is the cliche’d take where dad is the absent father who abandons the kids for the new wife - it’s easy to say Sphere is right, dad is wrong

Is it a cliched take if you witness it first hand, witness the toll it takes on the kids, while suggesting the kids’ best interest should be paramount? At the same time not just talking the talk about his stepchildren but also walking the walk with his own?

Your ex violated every rule of common sense and the principle of children first in divorce. She paid the price as she should, but it still cost you time, money, aggravation and trauma to your child. I’m sorry for all of that. In both cases the kids got the shaft and it should never happen. I think we can agree on this.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W