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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
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and taking our temperature on how the court might rule.

I didn’t know any of us here were family court judges. I might take advice here on many subjects, but how a judge might rule would not be one of them. I also would not want to have all of this discoverable. You may have a different opinion.

Sphere literally acknowledged and addressed this in the OP.

Did you bother to read it before replying to me?
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
ironclm wrote:
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and taking our temperature on how the court might rule.


I didn’t know any of us here were family court judges. I might take advice here on many subjects, but how a judge might rule would not be one of them. I also would not want to have all of this discoverable. You may have a different opinion.

I honestly wonder if people can be bothered to read what people post before they opine. Here is the very first sentence of this thread.

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Yes, I know a lawyer in our state is best suited to answer these questions, and we are meeting with him this week, but I'm curious if anyone has personal experience with how judges tend to rule on these issues.

They cannot.

Preconceived notions tend to drive these kinds of replies more than reading comprehension or a legitimate desire to actually add to the conversation.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
There’s spheres truth, the dad’s truth and the actual truth.

Having said that, Sphere previously told us that his last marriage ended because he cheated on his wife. If Sphere was a bullshitter, he likely wouldn’t have told us that.

Having said that… I feel confident that the actual truth is closer to Spheres truth than the Dads truth.

Having said all of that… it’s 100% possible that Sphere is a hermit that gets his jollies by completely making up a ridiculous life and posting about it in the LR. If so, he takes good notes about what he’s posted.

You need to add the Judge’s truth since it is a family court issue!
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
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and taking our temperature on how the court might rule.


I didn’t know any of us here were family court judges. I might take advice here on many subjects, but how a judge might rule would not be one of them. I also would not want to have all of this discoverable. You may have a different opinion.

I am not asking for advice. Implied in my OP was the question of whether people have had experience in family court that might shed some light on how judges approach these matters. Sort of like we do here on any number of topics.

It's an anonymous forum full of lawyers and parents, both posting and lurking. I don't know if any of them are family court judges and it really doesn't matter if they are or not.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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BBB1975 wrote:
BLeP wrote:
There’s spheres truth, the dad’s truth and the actual truth.

Having said that, Sphere previously told us that his last marriage ended because he cheated on his wife. If Sphere was a bullshitter, he likely wouldn’t have told us that.

Having said that… I feel confident that the actual truth is closer to Spheres truth than the Dads truth.

Having said all of that… it’s 100% possible that Sphere is a hermit that gets his jollies by completely making up a ridiculous life and posting about it in the LR. If so, he takes good notes about what he’s posted.

You need to add the Judge’s truth since it is a family court issue!

Was the judge involved in any of the private conversations between Sphere, the mom, and the dad? No. And he/she has gotten no more than we are getting: a second hand account of what has transpired.

Do with respect to this conversation(s) there is, as blep said, the dad’s interpretation of the truth, Spheres interpretation of the truth, and then the actual truth.

No judge needed in that context.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
BLeP wrote:


Sphere is a hermit that gets his jollies by completely making up a ridiculous life and posting about it in the LR.


See Blep’s reply above.


Agree with all of that.




How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Jan 11, 24 6:51
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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with respect to this conversation(s) there is, as blep said, the dad’s interpretation of the truth, Spheres interpretation of the truth, and then the actual truth.

No judge needed in that context.


As I mentioned, all of this is spelled out in black and white in emails and older texts. We've gone item by item and printed the relevant section of the settlement agreement and the email exchanges. There is no he-said, she-said because there is literally no real time in person communication between them, except for his comments made at pick up and what the kids have told us about their experiences which don't need to be part of the hearing.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Jan 11, 24 7:00
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
As I mentioned, all of this is spelled out in black and white in emails and older texts. We've gone item by item and printed the relevant section of the settlement agreement and the email exchanges. There is no he-said, she-said because there is literally no real time in person communication between them, except for his comments made at pick up and what the kids have told us about their experiences which don't need to be part of the hearing.


As you know, I’ve dealt for over a decade with an ex that was a lot like the Dad. I think you’re bringing out my PTSD! Your wife is doing all the right things on how to deal with someone who Can’t Understand Normal Thinking and has a Basic Inability To Comprehend Humanity.

My ex liked to do speech to text in her emails and all I would get is a 6 page rambling rant to a simple question such as what time do you want to pick up the kids?

Have you tried “Our Family Wizard”? It’s an app that’s designed to deescalate conflict by putting everything in a central repository. All email communication and read receipted, it can provide an accounting and categorization of all spending, etc. It was great!

For example with the spending, you take a picture of the receipt, add details. If it’s a reimbursable expense, or something that is part of the support order (copays, daycare, etc), it goes to the other parent, the can hit accept, then it goes to the running tally of who owes who and how much.

The magic sauce is a lot of courts also use it - i.e the judge or custody evaluator can have read access which makes discovery and fact finding a lot easier.
Last edited by: BBB1975: Jan 11, 24 7:16
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tried “Our Family Wizard”? It’s an app that’s designed to deescalate conflict by putting everything in a central repository. All email communication and read receipted, it can provide an accounting and categorization of all spending, etc. It was great!


No, but she had considered that option at one point, but found the email-only solution seemed sufficient to manage things effectively and with minimal emotional damage. I'll definitely take a look at it though if you've had good experiences with it.

I can't imagine going through what you did with your ex and son. I'm impressed that her abusive BF isn't buried under a shrub somewhere on your property. From reading the little anecdote you provided I think you probably understand what it's like dealing with a damaged human being and how you reach a point where you've exhausted all desire and ability to continue beating your head against the wall when you know what the result will be. Hard lines enforced by the court are your only refuge. "All the ducks all the time" is the mantra--keep your ducks in a row 100% of the time and document it so there's no foothold for fuckery. Keep all receipts.

I appreciate you sharing those details and your perspective on father's rights. As you know I have a personal interest in that side of it as well.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Jan 11, 24 7:25
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
Did you bother to read it before replying to me?

I can't remember six fucking pages.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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ironclm wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
Did you bother to read it before replying to me?

I can't remember six fucking pages.

It was the first sentence of the first post on the first page.

So…?
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
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Have you tried “Our Family Wizard”? It’s an app that’s designed to deescalate conflict by putting everything in a central repository. All email communication and read receipted, it can provide an accounting and categorization of all spending, etc. It was great!


No, but she had considered that option at one point, but found the email-only solution seemed sufficient to manage things effectively and with minimal emotional damage. I'll definitely take a look at it though if you've had good experiences with it.

I can't imagine going through what you did with your ex and son. I'm impressed that her abusive BF isn't buried under a shrub somewhere on your property. From reading the little anecdote you provided I think you probably understand what it's like dealing with a damaged human being and how you reach a point where you've exhausted all desire and ability to continue beating your head against the wall when you know what the result will be. Hard lines enforced by the court are your only refuge. "All the ducks all the time" is the mantra--keep your ducks in a row 100% of the time and document it so there's no foothold for fuckery. Keep all receipts.

I appreciate you sharing those details and your perspective on father's rights. As you know I have a personal interest in that side of it as well.

I can offer a glimpse of hope too. The abusive boyfriend had a satisfyingly painful and drawn out death in February 2021. He had an aneurysm in the fall of 2020 and never left the hospital. He was intubated the whole time and enjoyed his final thanksgiving and Xmas meals through a feeding tube.

This was during peak COVID and the hospital told my ex that she could stay by his bedside but she would not be allowed back into the hospital if she left. So she hung out for 3 months in the hospital with him! She came very close to losing her house since she had to quit her job. I found out a few months ago that her sister and mom had to give her money for food at the hospital during that time.

After he died, she’s been a completely different person. We get along perfectly fine now. She stayed out of the college process other than a sounding board for our daughter and going on visits. My daughter was able to earn an appointment to the Naval Academy, received a 4 year ROTC scholarship to her second choice. My daughter would not have gotten into the Academy if the boyfriend was still alive as he was such a negative black cloud over everything. Plus, my ex would have wanted to run things. Even in good times she’s massively disorganized.

Now, my ex and I host our daughter’s company mates for post football game tailgates, we are pros at it. The ex and I both went to Penn State, prior to the divorce, we had PSU season tix, my folks were those people who rolled into State College on Wednesday in their massive RV and tailgated for 5 days straight. The RV was sold, but we both still know how to tailgate right.

My ex hasn’t said anything to me, but a few months ago she thanked my wife for being the mother to the kids when my ex couldn’t be. Then, my college roomate came to the Air Force game , he hadn’t seen or talked to my ex since before the divorce. He told her she hasn’t changed one bit - she told him she wasn’t in her right mind for a very long time. So, I think my ex has realized the chaos and damage she had caused by her years long denial of the physical and emotional abuse heaped on her and the kids.

Our daughter is in the military, our son is a union electrical lineman making over six figures at 21 and is on his own. I’m always cordial and friendly to my ex now. My wife still hates my ex - all my wife remembers is how awful my ex was to me and the kids so she sees it from a very different perspective. She didn’t know my ex before the ex met the abuser.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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I can offer a glimpse of hope too.

I'm happy you arrived at a peaceful place after all of that. That's a gift.

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Now, my ex and I host...

The best we can hope for is that he leaves her alone. I don't know what the pathology was with your ex, but my wife's ex is classic narcissistic personality disorder and that generally never improves. You are a means to an end as she found out on their wedding day. One of their counselors during a reconciliation attempt told her she has two choices; leave, or he (the counselor) could help her learn how to cope with his abuse because he will never change. He has never once apologized for his behavior or shown any contrition or acknowledgment that he destroyed their marriage, but rather blamed her for "not loving him enough" to work through "their" problems together. When she finally kicked him out for the last time he cut off all funds to their house, kids, tuition, everything. He thought nothing of punishing the kids for her daring to stand up to him.

It takes sometimes superhuman self restraint to keep my mouth shut when I have to be around him for any length of time. People here are saying I'm too close to this and should let her handle it, but it's our life and our finances and our day to day life that's affected by his bullshit, not just hers. She's met her obligations to the letter and still she has to defend herself in court and pay for the privilege. So no, I don't anticipate tailgating together anytime soon.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
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I can offer a glimpse of hope too.


I'm happy you arrived at a peaceful place after all of that. That's a gift.

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Now, my ex and I host...


The best we can hope for is that he leaves her alone. I don't know what the pathology was with your ex, but my wife's ex is classic narcissistic personality disorder and that generally never improves. You are a means to an end as she found out on their wedding day. One of their counselors during a reconciliation attempt told her she has two choices; leave, or he (the counselor) could help her learn how to cope with his abuse because he will never change. He has never once apologized for his behavior or shown any contrition or acknowledgment that he destroyed their marriage, but rather blamed her for "not loving him enough" to work through "their" problems together. When she finally kicked him out for the last time he cut off all funds to their house, kids, tuition, everything. He thought nothing of punishing the kids for her daring to stand up to him.

It takes sometimes superhuman self restraint to keep my mouth shut when I have to be around him for any length of time. People here are saying I'm too close to this and should let her handle it, but it's our life and our finances and our day to day life that's affected by his bullshit, not just hers. She's met her obligations to the letter and still she has to defend herself in court and pay for the privilege. So no, I don't anticipate tailgating together anytime soon.

I have no idea what her pathology is but once the guy got his claws into her, she completely flipped. Backstory is he’s her 2nd cousin, and one of those scumbags who “works” in the horse industry but really just wants to rip people off. He’s a master manipulator. The guy was an alcoholic with a bunch of DUI’s, never held down a job, and his father finally got fed up with his bs and kicked him off his farm. He also spent some time in jail for the DUI’s. We had a horse farmette with an old single wide on the property and we agreed to let him stay temporarily in exchange for helping with the horses. I worked in pharma and was more than happy for free help since I worked a lot of hours - he’s family, right? What could go wrong?

One day, out of the blue, about two months after he moved into the trailer, she asked for a divorce. Her reasoning was she’s changed, I can’t provide what she needs which is a partner that is as in to horses as she is. Little did I know that horse partner was her second cousin. It made no sense. I suggested counseling, she said no, the 2nd cousin told her it wouldn’t work. I found out about the relationship about a month after she asked for a divorce when I walked in on them.

He was a Svengali but she let herself be manipulated.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [BBB1975] [ In reply to ]
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Good god man. That’s one hell of a story.

Horse girls are crazy. I would know, I married one. I’ll let you know how that works out ;)

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Good god man. That’s one hell of a story.

Horse girls are crazy. I would know, I married one. I’ll let you know how that works out ;)

All girls are crazy, but as an aside, my best friends tried to set me up with a "horse girl" a couple of decades ago. We met about 3 times in various contexts and she always smelled like she just came from the stables.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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It’s an acquired assault on the senses.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
Idk I’m having a real hard time here accepting that the kids must miss out on half of ANYTHING they want to do simply because one of the parents doesn’t want to spend their time doing that on the weekend.

A couple of broadly accepted norms here:

1. Kids have one job: to be kids. And that includes participating in and enjoying sports or other hobbies/activities.

2. Participation in these thing regularly is good/improtant for the kids.

3. Sports or other activities are often held multiple times a week and on the weekends. I don’t care if you’re married, separated, or divorced. You had a kid then you should accept that should your kids choose to participate or express interest in these things with a normal expected time commitment then so be it.

If one parent chose to move 3 hours away and 90 min of sport commitment on “your weekend” is enough to ruin your weekend then you don’t deserve to have an equal right there. That parent chose a living situation that allowed 90 min to disrupt their entire weekend.

That parent has to either accept it and participate, accept it and not participate, or make other arrangements to make up for those weekend where they are not willing to have the child and allow the child to participate in their desired age-appropriate activity.

That whole situation is ridiculous because it’s not sports. Replace sports with any acceptable and necessary kids function.

This should be about the kid, not the parent and their schedule.

This came to a head of sorts last night.

Middle kid (8) has a basketball game scheduled for this weekend. His dad called last night and he was excited to ask if he would take him to the game. He told him no and that he's not allowed to sign up for activities on his weekend. He melted down crying and told him it's really important to him, how much he loves playing basketball and how he's getting better at it, and the answer was still no. He asked if he could stay home this weekend to play in his game and was again told no. Kid ended the conversation by telling him he hates him and threw the phone down. When his older sister picked up the phone dad conveyed the same message to her, that she is not to participate in any activities that fall on his weekend. When she hung up with him she said to her mom that she'll be getting a talking to this weekend about it. She then broke down in tears talking about how much she wants to play volleyball next season and how she can't without him getting mad at her and making her feel guilty for it. We reassured her that she will get to play, as will her brother, and that she'll attend all of her practices and at least half of their games at a minimum, but that we can't guarantee her what will happen on his scheduled weekends.

It's hard to see the emotional turmoil given how avoidable it all is. Divorce sucks for everyone but it doesn't need to be this hard on them.

I just can't get my head around that way of thinking.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Sad to hear kids' are caught in the middle.

Is it known what their dad/ex has planned for his weekends with kids? From his perspective if he's got some special activities planned (his POV), then there's an argument to be made about doing that instead of the sports. But if he's doing this for spite b/c he wasn't part of signing them up, then that's d-bag behavior.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
A couple of broadly accepted norms here:

1. Kids have one job: to be kids.

I just saw this and unfortunately, a lot of people, do not either believe or understand this.

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [40-Tude] [ In reply to ]
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I don't give him the benefit of the doubt on anything, but I don't think it's spite toward the kids or my wife. He just doesn't want to inconvenience himself by staying in the area when he'd rather be home. From what the kids tell us they have things planned on just about every visit there, but they're things he or his wife plans and they always override whatever else the kids have going on around home.

If I had to sum it up as accurately and objectively as possible, it would be that he does not consider what the kids want or need on the weekends he views as "his" time, not theirs. He alone decides what they will do, not their schedule or commitments or anything their mother has enabled them to do, and if they're disappointed by missing, it's her fault for setting them up for disappointment. I don't think that's me being derogatory, it's just objectively a fundamentally different way of exercising your right and privilege as a parent. As he did in marriage he puts his own wants and needs above everyone and everything, with predictable results. He is not there for them, they are there for him.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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What does her attorney say about when the kids can petition which parent to live with and how much they have to see the other parent? My nephew went through this as a kid but I don't remember at what age.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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In Virginia a child has to comply with visitation until age 18. I don't know what if any mitigating factors may affect that obligation but I would imagine they would have to be severe, like compelling evidence of abuse or neglect. Being a dick probably doesn't meet that threshold.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
I don't give him the benefit of the doubt on anything, but I don't think it's spite toward the kids or my wife. He just doesn't want to inconvenience himself by staying in the area when he'd rather be home. From what the kids tell us they have things planned on just about every visit there, but they're things he or his wife plans and they always override whatever else the kids have going on around home.

If I had to sum it up as accurately and objectively as possible, it would be that he does not consider what the kids want or need on the weekends he views as "his" time, not theirs. He alone decides what they will do, not their schedule or commitments or anything their mother has enabled them to do, and if they're disappointed by missing, it's her fault for setting them up for disappointment. I don't think that's me being derogatory, it's just objectively a fundamentally different way of exercising your right and privilege as a parent. As he did in marriage he puts his own wants and needs above everyone and everything, with predictable results. He is not there for them, they are there for him.

Right. So he would have to come down for their games (inconvenient), vs. stay north/his home and his time w/kids.

Trying to look at this in a balanced way, if whatever he and his wife have planned w/the kids is thought to be worthwhile for the kids (from his POV), there's still an argument to be considered, over their sports. Sunday school (religious), language school (cultural) are examples that come to mind of an activity a parent might think is in the best interest of their kid doing, and not necessarily something a kid may want to do. But if the kids' are just tagging along on an activity that's primarily fun for dad (shooting range outing?), then yeah that's not really kids interests first.
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Re: Divorce and child custody/legal issues questions [ironclm] [ In reply to ]
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The real issue here is, and I hope it doesn't come to this for their sake, is that it would precipitate a complete cut-off physically and emotionally of the child/children if they wanted us to pursue that for them since the law is clear that 18 is the age of record. From what I've read a court would hear a case of a young tween/teen who pushes for it. It would be a death sentence for their relationship with their dad.

The oldest has told us that both he and his wife heap on the guilt when they voice any emotion that isn't favorable to dad, like wanting to stay home on an important weekend or having him stay in the area to support an activity, the four year old voicing homesickness at his house, etc. All three have been told that it's hurtful to tell their dad they don't want to go with him, that if they loved him they wouldn't make him feel bad, things of that nature. Very much like in their prior marriage, any expression of feelings or desires (or boundaries) that don't meet his needs is met with emotional manipulation. If you love me you wouldn't feel this way...that sort of stuff. It's a lot for kids to process.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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