Every nurse I've ever met

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Well, I watched Iowa's last 3 games and it was very exciting. I've been following this from the record, to the draft, t the Nike deal.

And I didn't realize this before, but have recently learned that the only reason anyone cares about Caitlin Clark is because they are racists. Like, this is coming up a lot.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

“And I didn't realize this before, but have recently learned that the only reason anyone cares about Caitlin Clark is because they are racists. Like, this is coming up a lot.”

I assume you’re being serious about this. I can’t speak to your personal experiences, but for me, it’s the first NCAA Final Four, M and W, that I’ve ever sat through, and Clark was a big reason for that. Curiosity, mostly, but I’m not a basketball guy and I’m not racist. The buzz just pulled me in, and I remember the drama from her showdown with LSU’s star forward (Reece) last year and was interested to see how the rematch went. Same with my wife, who’s a sports nut and former basketball player. She doesn’t like Clark or Reece all that much, because she doesn’t like players who make the game or postgame at all about themselves, and she hates that Clark doesn’t put in much defensive effort. But she hates LSU more in part because of their coach and the culture she seems to cultivate.

TLDR: Clark is an interesting player to watch because of her scoring capacity and LSU is easy to hate because of their image. Call that racism if you think it fits, but I don’t see it as the driving force for people’s preference for Clark over Reece, which seems to be the Clark story over the last two years. And given my choice of coaches if I were building a women’s basketball program, give me Dawn Staley all day long over that LSU peacock Mulkey.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

There was a bit of sarcasm in my post, so I'll clear it up.

For me, personally, I caught the Clark buzz when she won the all time scoring title. I then looked up a highlight real and thought, "Damn, I need to watch her play." I'd caught wind of some drama between her and someone else, but it wasn't anything that would make me want to watch a women's basketball game.

Since then, I've seen a lot of cries of "racism," which is really, really unfortunate.

So the narrative is that you and I are not interested in watching Clark because she's an exciting player. It's because the media went after Angel Reece last year for her antics after LSU beat Iowa in the finals last year, and she's black, and Clark is white and you and I are watching Clark for that reason.

What I find interesting about it is that the finals got 19 million viewers. But LSU wasn't in the finals. The LSU Iowa game in the elite 8 got 12 million viewers, which is really good for that round, but why would an additional 7 million racists watch Clark in a game that Reese wasn't even in?

And now her shoe deal is racist because people think that some other player that they like more should have gotten a bigger shoe deal. FWIW, that seems to be a smaller story, and a lot of black sports media personalities are pushing back on that one.

I mean, is it possible that maybe the same people who loved watching Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Serena Williams are also excited about Caitlin Clark?

Side note: when I started witnessing all of this drama, I had assumed Reese was a bigger star than she actually is. People are calling this the Magic - Bird rivalry. Reese went 7th in the draft. I mean, that's good, but not exactly epic. (Yes, Bird was 6th, but he was drafted a year before he graduated).

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Ok yeah, I missed the sarcasm in your post.

“is it possible that maybe the same people who loved watching Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, and Serena Williams are also excited about Caitlin Clark?”

On a related note, I saw today that the Caleb Williams jersey sales just set a new record, previously held by… Caitlin Clark.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I agree with you. I don't even watch mens professional basketball since the nineties let alone women's basketball. Why is it up to men to be more interested and the driving force for interest in women's basketball when women aren't? Should it be sports welfare for social justice. I do ( unfortunately) and don't understand the controversy.

It's called mothering. They don't have any interest in playing kickball, but they do want to make sure that all the children are playing nicely with each other.

Or in this case, "Hey kids (men), it's not fair that you're giving all of your money to the boys (NBA) but not to the girls (WNBA). Now [nag nag nag nag nag]."

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I have read a total of three posts in this thread, but I peeked in this morning to see if anything looked interesting enough for me read more. I’m not terribly interested in basketball, but I am interested in your “mothering” and “nag nag nag” words.

Income inequality seems like a legitimate beef. Unequal interest in entertainment seems like less than a legitimate beef. Where is the intersection of these two things, which obviously overlap because entertainment generates income?

Also, are there gender neutral words for the “mothering” and “nag nag nag” terms?

I went to school with sue bird and Diana taurasi. How is Caitlin Clark a pioneer compared to these two white women who also dominated college women's bball? She would be if she tried for the NBA. All she is getting is extra attention thanks to social media

Question for you:

How many WNBA games have you attended?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

There is no equality between NBA and WNBA, in terms of speed, skill, power, and spectacle, and the viewership/endorsements/compensation reflect the differences. Just as there's no income equality within the NBA--some players earn multiples of what other players make, for the same reason.

Not trying to be condescending, I know you know this.


The WNBA is an inferior product to the NBA, just as UFL is an inferior product to the NFL and compensation varies accordingly.

Where it gets interesting is viewership and advertising in highly popular women's sports, like USWNT vs USMNT soccer. Historically I've watched more women's games than men's and I'm sure I'm not alone. I don't know the numbers off hand, but whichever draws more eyeballs and advertising dollars should benefit from that market share.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

This year's NCAA women's championship game is ESPN's most-watched basketball game ever full stop.

And in the digital arena, is the most watched college event ever on ESPN+.

You're right on speed, skill, power. But I'm not sure that matters. What matters is compelling drama.

I think you're wrong on spectacle. Clearly Caitlin (with backup Angel Reese) has matched, arguably exceeded, almost any men's game spectacle. And there have been massively popular men's NCAA stars...from Michael, to Fab Five, 'Melo, to Durant, Walker, et al. It may be a different kind of spectacle, but it is undeniably spectacle.

Could be that this year's women's March Madness was just a one-shot viral phenomena. I'm not so sure.

Every once in awhile, I see an article, obviously by someone with a political agenda but little perspective, about how examples like Clark show that there's still not equal pay for equal work. Every time I feel like grabbing the person and shaking them to see if their brain will shake loose. Just because a woman also plays professional basketball does not mean she is doing equal work to an NBA player. And even within the WNBA, all players don't get paid the same.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Can you go deeper into your thinking here?

 

So you want to have a broad rule that professional sports are not subject to equal pay between the sexes? There can be inequality within the NBA and WNBA but still have parity between the two organizations.

What are the reasons that professional sports should be treated differently than other physical professions, like police work, firefighting, nursing, farming, logging, etc? Should physically weaker people be paid less?

False equivalency.

Entertainment pays based on eyeballs on advertisements and asses in seats.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Chill out.

She's a pioneer because she made people care about womens college bball and for the time being, she has made people care about WNBA. Look at the stats Trail posted. Bird and Diana were not doing that. They were great womens' players but no one cared largely. Their wNBA games had 3K fans and most folks couldn't even tell you when the season was.

Now, with Clark they have folks watching the draft, WNBA pre-season games and the college numbers were off the charts. Color doesn't matter, its people wanting to watch her jack threes from mid-court, score tons of points and pile up stats. It's why she gets the eyeballs that none of those other women ever did.

There has been a lot of dumb shit posted on this forum over the years the statement that men and women athletes should be paid the same is probably the dumbest. Want a good way to kill all women's sports? Make them get paid the same as the men. /

I have to wonder if you're related to, or in some other way connected to Clark. The way you've spent your time fawning over her in this thread, you'd think she was your kid.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

What are the reasons that professional sports should be treated differently than other physical professions
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It's pretty much the same reason that Taylor Swift is making more money than, well, pretty much everyone right now. It is that she is able to sell a ridiculous number of tickets offered at insanely expensive prices. That's how money in the entertainment field works. Nobody is saying that she should be subsidizing lesser successful artists simply because there is an inequity in monies.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

To be more specific, the WNBA is a charity case. Literally. The league, from the numbers I've seen, brings in roughly $60M annually but spends $70M to operate. The NBA subsidizes the women's league.

In contrast, the NBA brings in about $8B annually.

Women are free to compete for jobs in the NBA just as women are free to compete for jobs on the police force and fire department. If they can do the job, they'll get the job.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

"Work" doesn't seem like the right economics term. Because women's basketball players can "work" just as hard as men, and seemingly do.

I think you mean something more like "market value."

Clark is going well into double digit millions in endorsement deals (reported $28M Nike deal, and a good number of deals beyond that). That'll put her probably well above the median net worth of an NBA player. Her WNBA salary will be relative pocket change. It would take a while for the WNBA to close the gap significantly on the NBA on advertising, gate proceeds, and endorsements that run through the team/league vs. the player.

Okay, we have a lot of careers in entertainment. Actors, stunt actors, models, singers, musicians, comedians, writers—

We expect popularity to drive entertainment compensation, and we see ongoing disparity in compensation between men and women. For instance, women actors are paid less than men actors.

In a way, it seems like sexism means women are less popular. We just don’t seem to like women as much as men— or we like them but we don’t value them or we don’t want to reward them. Inferior product.

you think so? Has anything I've said been incorrect? Why don't you like her or want to admit what she has done for womens sports? Weird.