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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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hah. Oops, yes, stomachs are good at stating their personal boundaries. lol! I've done the same.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dr. Harrison,

I have a few more ultra-endurance fueling questions for you, if you don't mind. First, is there a limit to how many calories per hour the body can digest from real foods (maple syrup, Clif bars, pb&j, dried fruits, etc.) while biking? I posted the other day about a 7hr ride I did where I took in 435 calories/hour, and some quick calculations show me that I'm burning around 520cal/hr at the effort I'm riding. Is it possible to eat enough to break even and not be in a calorie deficit? In an ultra-long race (I'm training for a triple Ironman in June), would that be preferable/possible for the entire 40+ hours?

Similarly, before a regular Ironman I'd normally eat a big breakfast a few hours before racing - oatmeal, peanut butter, banana, Gatorade. For the triple I'm training for, would you also recommend having a breakfast a few hours before the start? Or since I'll be fueling so much and so continuously throughout the race, could I start the swim "fasted" after waking up and just start eating from there?

I hope you don't mind the questions - you're such an amazing and responsive source of information here, and your DIY carb drink has been a game-changer for my training for the past 14 months. I'm feeling better-fueled and healthier than ever. Thank you in advance!

Zack
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [Zacky] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Zack,
Thanks for the generously kind words. Glad to hear your fueling game is a strength now. :)

There is no fixed limit to the rate at which you can consume kcal while exercising. Chrissie Wellington famously did 500+ kcal per hour on the bike leg of her final win at world champs almost 20 years ago, under the tutelage of Dr. Asker Jeukendrup. And a fair bit of that was not carbs. Most was carbs, of course. But it's here in the forum somewhere. And IIRC there were close to 100kcal from fat and protein. I'm not sure if this was intentional, tbh.

Back to your question, yes, there is a balance of consumption and exercise rate where you can begin to out-consume your kcal burn. It sounds like you're already within 100kcal of that crossover, which is absolutely an advantage in a 40-hour continuous exercise feat. To maximize the kcal you can consume, minimize fiber for sure, and keep protein and fats near zero, too. Aim for just glucose and fructose sources.

For breakfast, yep, absolutely slam high-carb, high-palatability everything that you've consumed pre-training before race day.

In both cases - breakfast, and intra-race - hydration is a critical component of your gut tolerance and ability to digest large quantities of carbs quickly. A hydrated gut is a happy gut. This means it needs to be hydrated inside and out. The 'inside' hydration just means drinking fluid with carbs, always on race day. The "outside" aspect of gut hydration is just a reflection of your overall body hydration status. Get dehydrated and gut function is going to collapse substantially. It will hard to regain gut function once it's gone due to dehydration. It requires slowing down for a while, and pushing fluid and electrolytes sufficiently to regain hydration already lost on the trek. Not a good scenario.

If you find that you can get your fueling with 50kcal of race kcal burn rate, yeah you probably could perform almost identically with or without breakfast. I totally made that number up, and don't quote me. That said, here's an alternate strategy:
  • Wake up to the softest alarm possible & no lights on, 2.5-3 hours pre-race. Eat a couple hundred grams of tasty carbs with 16oz water & 500-1000mg sodium.
  • Go back to sleep immediately. Do not turn any lights on.
  • Wake up to a second alarm much closer to race time. As close as possible if you're trying to maximize pre-race sleep.
  • When your alarm goes off this second time, again consume carbs, water, and sodium, but this time, flip all the lights on immediately and don't stop consuming carbs, sodium, and water until you finish the race 40.5 hours later. :) Keep on sipping and consuming! Maybe an extra-big glug right before you dive in for your first real arm stroke in the swim leg. Goal: sustain your blood sugar, sodium and hydration as long through the swim as possible. :)


Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
Last edited by: DrAlexHarrison: Apr 6, 24 11:58
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the reply! I just looked back at the nutrition I ate during my simulation ride last week, and in just those few hours I had around 80g of fat and 30g of fiber, and that's coming from what I'd traditionally consider (or at least what are marketed as) "workout" foods - pretzels, stroopwafels, Clif Bars, peanut butter, cereal treat bars, etc. You mention trying to keep protein and fat near zero, but how do you recommend doing that? I just can't see my body (or taste buds honestly) accepting 40 hours of sugar water, Sour Patch Kids, and Gatorade. Like I said, I love your DIY carb drink and I've used it alone for 100+ mile rides, but 336 miles is a different beast and I just don't see how it's possible to force myself to eat enough straight-carb foods, if that makes sense.
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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We need a few more TrainingPeaks-Saturday sync beta testers. Shoot me an email at support at saturdaymorning dot fit with "TrainingPeaks please" in it somewhere and I'll get you added.

We launch TrainingPeaks syncing publicly soon!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Can you update the Efs pro nutrition information to the new high carb mixture?

blog
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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This one? https://firstendurance.com/products/efspro

Do you know if the old EFS Pro still exists?

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
πŸ“± Check out our app β†’ Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube β†’ Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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DrAlexHarrison wrote:
This one? https://firstendurance.com/products/efspro

Do you know if the old EFS Pro still exists?

Yes. I don’t believe the old Efs pro mixture is being sold anymore.

blog
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [] [ In reply to ]
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for those with a 2-bottle strategy in something like a 70.3 training, is it normal for the mix to have a really hard time dissolving? I pre-mix my bottles at night and even after giving them a good shake and leaving them overnight, there is still sediment in the bottom of the bottle in the morning. for reference this would be about 4 servings of gatorade OR two servings plus 3/8 cup of sugar

the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning
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Re: Official App Feedback Thread For Saturday Users [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have a thread for questions, or should I just wait for approval to the member hub?

I tried the app this week and am cautiously optimistic after several very good days including a very good long ride.
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