I didn't have school today, so I tried running after a bike ride and even 7:00/mile felt pretty tough after like half an hour of running.

I might not have fueled enough during the bike ride though so I could have just been hungry/dehydrated.

If thats not the case though, I feel like it would be hard to feel good second half even if I run kind of slow. How fast do you think I should be running the first half? I did a half at like 5:58/mile, and I know that doesn't really translate to the marathon in an Ironman, so I'm not sure.

How long was the bike ride? How long did it take you? What did you eat/drink while on the bike?

How far did you run? How long did it take you? What did you eat/drink while you ran?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I didn't have too much homework so it was like 100 miles and it took me 4 hours 39 minutes with an additional 6 minutes of stoppage to use the bathroom and refill water. I ate like 2 cliff bars and some trail mix and had some electrolyte water.

I went straight into the run where it was only 30 minutes (because I was getting kind of hungry) and I drank a little water during the transition and ate half a cliff bar. I ran at about 7 minutes per mile so a little over 4 miles

I cannot reiterate my earlier point enough that you need to learn to throttle back.

You're five months out from a massive race that you've never trained for and you're already putting yourself behind the proverbial 8 ball with 100 mile rides that you're not prepared for (pacing and nutrition). These are the kinds of things that will set you up for failure.

You need to read some books or you need to pay for a coach. Either way you need some direction before you continue your training. You need to nail your nutrition and hydration. I don't want to see you get hurt or trash your race.

Do you have any files you can link to for these rides and runs?

You can follow me on strava if you have it. My strava name is Henry Schultz

Is it bad to ride 100 miles? Also I don’t post everything on strava but there’s still a majority of my training on there

I'm not on Strava unfortunately.

I won't perseverate on what I've already said if you're not looking for those contributions. Good luck with the race and I hope you get your medal.

Cheers

I agree with you that there is a lot I need to learn with training and nutrition. That is why I posted here. I tried to keep the ride at a fairly low intensity, like other people here have told me. I really don't know how fast I should be going or how much I should be eating, and I encourage anyone reading this to give me some advice based on their experiences.

Back in the "old days' fathers would "punish" their children when they found them smoking or drinking underage by making them smoke a pack of cigs or drink til they puked.

I'm starting to realize, the race day IM is going to be your "punishment" at this rate. But you have time, and your young so you'll bounce back quickly whether the day goes great or the day goes to hell in a hand basket.

#youthmovement

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm not really sure what you mean. I see this race a reward and an opportunity to have a cool and fun adventure. I'm grateful that I'm able to sign up for something like this and I'm interested in finding the limits of my body.

What I'm saying is, if your going to go train and underfuel yourself in the process of said training, your going to have one hell of a long/hard day.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm used to running without fueling, but I understand that I'll have to fuel during the marathon. I usually don't eat anything before my long runs in the morning and don't eat or drink anything during them.

This is why it’s generally a “bad idea” for a youth your age to attempt this. You have to fuel every long session whether the bike or run (1 bar an hour would be "base" level numbers ~250...yes it could be less / could be more but I would give that as a general guide to accomplish) You were imo very under nutritioned on the bike along with the “effort” you likely did. Now maybe 21+ mph for that long is a walk in the park pace on the bike.

You are going to be in for “fun” day. That’s why I’ve said imo it’s better for you to just show up and do it then to have to “properly” train for it because imo that’s more taking a toll on you then just doing 1 long day “untrained” for. That’s an “adventure” that you can blame on youth.

What you’re going to end up doing is just hating it. That’s easy to see with how strong of an athlete you are.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

So you burned over 3000 calories, consumed about 700, and are having trouble gaining weight. I advise that you stop ditching math class.

I ate over 2000 calories right after and probably another 2000 for dinner.

Well hypothetically speaking, how would I go about training properly?

The IM training demands are far more of a impact on a youth's body than the actual "long" race day. Thus why I've said, the best thing for you long term is to just be a 17 year old kid and then just race it on race day (whether you are "ready" for it or not).

Thus the information I'm trying to give you is guidance. Again it's why I said the best thing you can do is stick to your 1 hour of swimming, ride your bike however you ride it, running your low mileage halfs or whatever run training you do (you clearly have talent) and then just show up on race day....if it turns into a "sufferfest" so be it becuase you aren't "trained up for it". That's the dangerous part imo for long term physical and mental health.

And that's why people are against it- You can easily show up next week and do an IM. Doing an 140mile event with your fitness, your going to accomplish your goal; you can walk the damn marathon if you need too. But if you think you can "train up for it" in the next 6 months to nail some secret fast goal time- that is going to be the dangerous part imo that creates issues. So it's not the actual race that is the issue; it's the training and imo you'll be hard to find a coach who would tell you otherwise.


Go be a 17 year old kid, don't have to skip hanging with your firends cus your "training plan" calls for an 8 hour brick sessions, etc.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

IM training for most beginners is about effort and not speed or pace. You should be focusing on doing the majority of your training at a pace where you feel like you should be going faster. The same will go for the race itself. For now its about putting the hours in at lower intensities.

I've no idea what you are actually doing. You say you bike 20 miles a day and then all of a sudden throw a 100 miler in. You also say you biked up to 8 hours over the summer. It is very difficult to get an idea of your consistency and that is also important. Also safely ramping up your volume depends on what you've actually been doing the last X weeks. It's ineffective and also risky to ping pong all over the place week to week.

Can you upload your training file here for today's bike ride?

B Doughtie is giving you some sound advice and I agree with him. The training is where the issues will arise. I alluded to this earlier but Im quite familiar with the cumulative stress pitfalls because I'm on the other end of it diagnosing and rehabbing or giving the bad news. Most notably with beginners who ramp up mileage too quickly, implement far too much intensity too frequently, don't sleep, and don't eat enough. The strength training is a whole other ball game that I don't think we have time for here.

You need to start taking in calories while youre training. On race day you cannot wait until the run to start. You cannot make up for lost time and you also can't overload your GI system. Not to mention your ability to digest and intake calories is far better on the bike.

You have mentioned your paces and speed here multiple times but I want to reiterate that focusing on pace will be a big risk. And its a hard pill to swallow for a lot of newer triathletes. You should get used to effort-based training for now.

You have been given a lot of feedback on this thread. Including some recurring themes. I don't mean to sound like a prick (though I know I might) but I'd like to see you put in some leg work right now rather than expect us to do this for you. There is no shortage of threads on this forum for training, nutrition, hydration, recovery, pacing, etc.

Rather than say "give me your advice on what I should do" I'd like to see you give us some specifics with your training (so we have an actual idea of what youre doing) and then find specific questions based on what you've read. "The search function is your friend" now that you've gotten some sound advice from a few people.

Its exciting and I've done Placid twice.

You can use the plan as "key sessions" and add some easy stuff here and there to increase the total amount of training. For example you can add either a 90' easy ride or a 60' easy swim on a hard running day

I hang out with my friends by swimming, biking, or running with them though.

I'm not sure how to upload the file for the bike ride. I tried to attach a picture of the ride but I'm not sure if I did it right.

I'm not trying to brag or anything, but I don't feel tired or sore at all after the run and ride yesterday. Is this normal? I got like 10 hours of sleep and ate a lot of food so I knew I would recover well, but I thought that I would be at least slightly tired/sore? I know this sounds counterintuitive, but could this be a sign of overtraining that I don't feel any fatigue?

I'm trying to just have fun with my training, and not do anything too structured. I don't have a goal in terms of time, especially since I heard lake placid is a pretty tough course. I just hope I can finish the race (hopefully without walking too much). My neighbor said that for his first one, he would walk for like 20-30 seconds at each rest stop during the marathon so he could fuel and pace properly. Would this be a good strategy for me?

You’re a solid athlete. You’re going to accomplish your goal. Whether you run/walk whether you go sub 10, 12 / 14 hours you’ll get there.

Run/walk is genrerally a very good idea for most “finishers” as the chances of you being fit enough to run the whole thing is going to be low (that’s not meant to be an insult).

Looking forward to hearing how it goes! Hopefully you around in 5 years to tell us this is what inspired you falling in love w the sport vs being an “one and done”.

The collegiate club tri scene is on point right now in the US. Depending on what uni you go to (if you are going to college), that can be your next fun adventure. Hell with your swim background draft legal collegiate club could be very successful for you (in addition to Olympic non draft). At collegiate club it's much more of a fun format and even though many of the top teams have "pro's" as their athletes, 80% is just random college kids. MTR is also a fun format at the collegiate level.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

this is a good strategy even for the best ones; possibly the only one that actually works, at least for me