I’m sorry but fuck that guy. He’s already damaging their relationship and I don’t see any outcome that is favorable for said relationships if he continues with his antics.

I’m a firm believer that blood doesn’t give one a free pass for carte blanche. Sure he’s their biological dad but it doesn’t seem like that’s healthy for them. You’re home environment is likely far better suited for their physical, mental, and emotional needs.

They must comply until 18? Despite their wishes and schedules? Fuck that. And forget just sports. What if the kids have a job that they need to get to? Kids start working at 15. Weekend hours are common. Relationships and school events that take place after hours and on weekends.


Seriously, fuck this guy. I hope it gets thrown back in his face in court especially after the phone call you just described.

I couldn’t imagine doing that to my kid. I’m so sorry you and they have to put up with his pathetic insecure ass.

I don't know all of the details of their activities and I hesitate to speculate, but generally from what they report at home they are kid-friendly if not always kid-focused activities most weekends (parties with the adult neighbors next door are the most common; they have one child roughly the age of the middle kid). But no, they are not doing anything like religious training or language immersion or cultural educational things of that nature with any regularity. I do know that for certain. That said, I do value the exposure they get to events and activities accessible in the city they don't have access to around here, and I think they benefit from it. The issue is that their wants and desires are always subjugated to the father's. As I've written here before, if one of my sons has something important going on at home where they live primarily with mom, I either attend with them, or if I can't break away from commitments at home, I let them stay with their mom and we make up the time later either at his place or mine. It just takes the willingness to do so and the understanding that they are human beings with wants and needs beyond my own.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Correct. It will only get worse as they age up.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

My oldest would hate me if I regularly kept him from playing hockey.

My youngest would hate me if I regularly kept him from playing soccer.

I wouldn't do that to them and if I did, I would expect them to hate me for it.

Sounds like he's a special animal. Makes me wonder why he wants to see them at all.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Age 18?!?! Do they have a therapist? This shits needs to be brought up to him/her and the attorney.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

City boy.

That’s not an insult. I grew up in an urban/suburban environment. But spent many summers on the farm.

I’d say riding on the back of am ATV (or being allowed to operate farm equipment) is no more risky than bombing down a hill on a skateboard without a helmet. Or BMX in a somewhat local quarry. Or being allows at age 12 to spend the day surfing with friends (oldest was 15) with no adult supervision. Or to swim and snorkle off the cliffs at Abalone Cove, again with no supervision or even a lifeguard on duty.

Yeah, in reality it's a tough situation. Partly b/c it seems like dad's not flexible - about coming south, adjusting schedules, commitments, activities, etc. etc. There isn't the necessary give/take happening, and little flexibility.

It seems oddly counter-intuitive (to me, at least) that the recourse is to go back to court and have it be decided via amendments to legal agreements. Legal agreements, more explicit terms and conditions, all binding -- it's the exact opposite of being more flexible.

Between the dad north around urban DC and you guys in a more rural area a bit south, the kids have a chance of being exposed to the best of both worlds, which could be uniquely good. Instead of Jr playing his basketball game that weekend, maybe go to a Wizards home game? (even though they suck). Or do some of the great museum stuff around DC (Air/Space is great w/kids). Have kids do the "best" of things in the time they have with whomever and wherever. Life should be free flowing. Could be a beautiful thing. In theory.

I do hope that you all get through this in the best possible ways.

Yea it’s absolutely baffling to me. I can understand at younger ages when it’s imperative to foster the relationship with both parents and each are (mostly) deserving of the opportunity to connect with their child.

But at age 13 at least kids should start to have a say especially if one is being forced to miss out on half of their extracurricular lives simply because one parent is too selfish and inflexible. If you electively choose to move three hours away then you forfeit a large part of the leg that you have to stand on when it comes to negotiating the custody arrangements. You had a kid. Kid needs to be a kid. Sort your shit out.

Nail on the head.

My wife has only asked that he not be disrespectful to her, that he abide by the agreement so there's no room for argument, and to not make plans for the kids on undefined time without communicating with her in advance. Thus far he's batting zero on all fronts.


In theory, yes. In reality, it's always hard for kids being taken away from their place of comfort even if it benefits them in terms of exposure to all the things you'd want a kid to see, learn, and do. Like I said, I appreciate that aspect of their time there, but ultimately what matters most (at least thinking back to when I was a kid, and I don't think most parents would disagree) is simply showing up for your kids, showing them how much you care by investing yourself in them and their lives and activities and pursuits. As BLeP I think correctly noted, it's pretty easy to get resentful toward a parent that doesn't give a shit what you want especially when you've made it explicitly clear to them that it matters to you. And as Yeeper mentioned, what happens when there are jobs, parties, boyfriends/girlfriends and other majorly important things that teens want or need to be home for--sorry for your luck? If my dad was responsible for my parents' divorce, then moved to another state and moved in with another woman and her kid, and told me that nothing I had going on at home was important enough for him to allow or support or show up for, resentment wouldn't begin to describe my feelings for him. I'd be counting down the days 'tull I never saw his face again.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

That may be able to work in some situations, but it really doesn't fit with organizational sports, where you have practices during the week and games every weekend, during the season. Some leagues may be able to accommodate custody situations like this and allow a kid to miss every other game, but even in those situations, there are still bound to be some negative impacts. I suspect other leagues may not accommodate it, especially when they get in to high school level. If I were to have told my high school coach that I'd need to miss every other game, I'd either have been off the team or on the bench. Basically, the dad here is saying that the kids cannot participate in any organization sport or activity that requires a commitment every weekend during the season. There could be a compromise where it's done one way during the season and another for the remainder of the year. But it doesn't sound like dad is willing to compromise in the least.

I don't know if it's possible to count the number of tv shows or movies where all the kid really wants is for dad to show up and watch the game, yet the dad keeps missing because of his job (usually a cop). It's a common theme because it's one that people relate to, because there's a lot of truth to that desire. And while I can understand the tension a parent feels when they aren't able to show up because they have important work or other commitments, I can't understand who not only doesn't show up but insists that the kid miss out on the game.

He has said that to my wife in the past; she replied that she will not keep them from going with him on his time but that she will continue to allow and encourage them to play sports and participate in clubs regardless if some games or events fall on his weekends, and he can decide what happens on those days. Last night he said it explicitly to the kids for the first time--I don't want you signing up for sports or activities that fall on my weekends. So he's put it on them now to be conflicted not just about missing games but for even signing up for it.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

This isn't a problem, it's a fricking opportunity.

You should start a sports league for kids of divorced parents and you only play every other weekend.

BOOM!

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Would the court allow you to move farther away from the kids' father?

This is very true and how it was when I was a kid. My dad worked out of town and had trouble getting to games during the week, but he always made time for the big games, made it a point to ask me about the games, took an interest, even though he was not athletic and didn't really understand the game. I don't remember the games he didn't go to, I remember all of them he did see.

All in all, even if it's hard to be present, you can always take an interest. As Robin Williams says in Good Will Hunting, "It's not about you!"

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_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

And what you don't do is say, "I can't be there, or worse, it's inconvenient for me to be there; therefore, you can't participate."

So my step daughters deal with a dad very similar to this but thankfully not this bad.
It’s all about “his” time and not “their” time.

I’ve been around 8 years. They are now 17 and 14.
He’s never taken them on a vacation. They hardly leave the house. As soon as they walk in they are made to do chores that he’s neglected the entire week. He’s promised them a dog a few dozens times.
The only thing he will attend is the younger daughters soccer games. He told the oldest who started as a gymnast and is now in competitive cheer that gymnastics wasn’t a sport because it didn’t have a ball. He’s attended 1 gymnastic meet and 1 cheer event since I’ve been around. Cheer was bc of a football game 5 min away that was after it.
He constantly throws guilt in their face anytime they want to do anything.
As they have gotten older, they have seen how he is and don’t want to go over there anymore. They still do only because he will yell at them. He also bought their car and frequently threatens taking it back if they don’t do what he says.
For you, keep being a solid parent. They will see his true self more and more. At some point they may want to go to court and be done with it. In my state the judge will listen to a request from a kid once they are 14-15.
You are right, it’s a death sentence for the relationship but at a certain point it’s worth it possibly. My step daughters are just riding it out until they are 18.

My wife has always maintained that the truth will win out when it comes to the kids and it won't require any action on her part. It's already happened with the 10yo and this weekend is the first we're seeing of it with the 8yo. Aside from hyperactivity and some quirks that come with that he's the easiest of the three, a middle child to the core, compliant and agreeable, sweet natured gentle giant, so it was interesting and a little surprising to see him taking a stand and advocating for himself. He actually said to my wife today after basketball practice something to the effect of "he's terrible I understand why you're not together anymore." It sucks to hear a kid say that about a parent but honestly, it's not her job to cover for him and it's a situation of his own making that is easily fixed. You just have to show up.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

When my wife (then girlfriend) and I were 19, we went to visit her "father" to have a meal and exchange Christmas gifts. My wife had called her father and made all of the arrangements for the get together. When we showed up at his house, at the arranged time, the porch light was not on. We knocked on the door and he answered, in his pajamas. He and his girlfriend were clearly in for the night and had completely forgotten that we were coming. We stayed, ordered pizza, and spend about 90 minutes at their house. My wife gave her "father" a Christmas gift. He hadn't bothered to get one for her. It was an uncomfortable evening.

Driving back to school afterwards, my wife, more resigned than upset, decided, "I have been the only one to put any effort into this relationship. I'm tired of it. I'm not calling him again. If he wants to talk to me, he can call." Again, we were 19. We are now 52 and have never spoken to him again. Honestly don't know if he is alive or dead. We have grown kids of our own now. He missed it all. No idea if he cares. It was no loss to me. I'm sure it hurt my wife to realize that her father was so uninterested in her, but she moved on. I learned that my wife has real convictions and a spine of steel.

Sphere, I'm sure that your step kids are already realizing what kind of guy their father is. I feel a little bad for him but he is making his own bed. Some people never grow up enough to realize how their actions affect everyone around them.

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Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

The discovery process has started and my wife is being asked to submit a list of all medical diagnoses and prescription medications (she has none and takes none). Given the issues raised in the petition, none of which explicitly or implicitly question her competency as a parent, how is this relevant and why should she be required to disclose it?

I’m angry for her. It must feel like having every aspect of your life scrutinized and criticized when her only major mistake was staying with this asshole as long as she did. She hasn’t violated any aspect of their custody agreement ever and has gone above and beyond what is required of her to accommodate his requests, and now she’s effectively being required to prove she isn’t crazy or incompetent.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Just because the discovery requests ask for information does not mean your wife has to give it.

If the requests invade your wife’s privacy for harassing purposes, then get a protective order & seek sanctions. This is litigation— your wife needs to fight back. Get a lawyer, for heaven’s sake.

She has a lawyer, actively working on the case. Same lawyer that settled her divorce. Surely he is aware of this request but hasn’t indicated that she isn’t required to comply.

He’s a successful lawyer and did her right in the divorce process. He also seems to hew closely to traditional Southern social norms and tells her thing like it will reflect poorly on her that she doesn’t attend church, or tithe, or if she comes off as too assertive. So he may think that it’s in her best interest to comply with that discovery request? I assume he knows his business and what does and doesn’t play well in court in this area.

If it’s unnecessary and harassing, which is what it appears to be, why wouldn’t her lawyer use that to his advantage as exemplary of his M.O. rather than pass it on to her as though it’s something she needs to do?

I said it’s bullshit and she shouldn’t provide her personal protected health information . He’s not being subjected to anything of that nature, to my knowledge, and surely her lawyer knows that.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

My impression is that the other spouse is absolutely not allowed to go on a fishing expedition through her medical information. They can request medical information that’s specifically pertinent to the case, but that’s it. I would definitely push back. Medical privacy is a pretty well established principle, and it doesn’t imply you’re hiding anything, I don’t think.

Other lawyers can weigh in if I’m getting that wrong.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Can you throw out an "Objection! Relevance?" call during discovery?

I’m on the other side of the country and I’m a different jurisdiction and I do not practice family law, but I see no reason to avoid stating objections and engaging in the meet and confer process.

Where I am, lawyers are required to meet and confer about everything before filing for a protective order or filing a motion to compel discovery. Both sides send letters back and forth hashing out their reasons for their position. If they fail to agree, they take it to the judge via a discovery motion.

The meet and confer process allows each side to give their reasons for wanting or objecting to the discovery. If the ex doesn’t have any good reason for asking for your wife’s own medical records, then it would be obvious after the meet and confer process.

Of course, the rules may be different. Maybe you live in a more conservative state. Maybe the judges like emotionally abusive exes who harass women and invade their privacy. Maybe that’s normal where you are. But that shit don’t fly in SoCal, my friend.

If your wife’s lawyer is not the right lawyer to protect to your wife’s legal interests, then you may need a different, more aggressive lawyer.